Have a look at this:
http://www.stifflerscientific.org/electrodes.html (http://www.stifflerscientific.org/electrodes.html)
Regards, Stefan.
This looks promising... but what kind of production would you have to achieve - say using the cell directly in a car with the battery and generator as the source - to duplicate the power output of the same motor running on gasoline?
That's the $$ quesiton.
What are the added costs associated with capturing, pressurizing, and delivering the fuel to combustion?
I just can't get excited about burning fuel to produce energy. :-\
Hi Group,
Does anyone know of a precise frequency range which has been used to create flash hydrogen? By the term "Flash Hydrogen" I am refering to an immediate conversion of H2O to its base molecules eg; hydrogen and oxygen by means of molecular breakdown. You may be familiar with the term and if so are more likely to understand my question and the reason for asking for this precise frequency range. The reason for my interest is that I am wondering if it might be possible to tailor a HOPE Generator to operate at this frequency range. If the proper resonant frequencies could be applied using the HOPE approach it would be very interesting to test this theory and I believe that it might be possible to create hydrogen in large volumes using very little actual power to do this. Any input is much appreciated guys.
Best Regards All,
Jim
Hi Jim
Stan Myers was using, if I recall correctly, 21000hrz to fracture water - at .5amp.
Quote from: BushWacker on March 08, 2006, 01:57:12 AM
Hi Group,
Does anyone know of a precise frequency range which has been used to create flash hydrogen? By the term "Flash Hydrogen" I am refering to an immediate conversion of H2O to its base molecules eg; hydrogen and oxygen by means of molecular breakdown. You may be familiar with the term and if so are more likely to understand my question and the reason for asking for this precise frequency range. The reason for my interest is that I am wondering if it might be possible to tailor a HOPE Generator to operate at this frequency range. If the proper resonant frequencies could be applied using the HOPE approach it would be very interesting to test this theory and I believe that it might be possible to create hydrogen in large volumes using very little actual power to do this. Any input is much appreciated guys.
Best Regards All,
Jim
It is my understanding that a microwave oven works on the idea that about 2.4 ghz is the frequency that water resonates at. A microwave vibrates the water molecules and that creates friction, and heat results. The heat generated by water molecule friction heats/cooks the food. May also break down water?
thats an interesting thought. I wasnt aware that microwave ovens were designed to that frequency.
however microwave ovens only heat water, they do not facture it into hyrdogen and oxygen. I believe there are other frequencies which could fracture water quickly using little ampage.
I also theorize that this process could be made even more effecient through the use of harmonics.
As to what these harmonics are I cannot say. I have yet to experiment. But I do believe the answser to effeciently getting energy from water is in frequency and not in voltage.
" frequency and not in voltage "
humm...
Too bad these guys didn't use water.
http://ds1.thatvideosite.com/streamvideo.wmv?id=2289&filename=cmVzb25hbmNlX3NxdWFyZS53bXY%3D&key=1147179023
Frequency square test. Not related to H2 production, but it's an idea.
Hello to Magick and John in CT,
First I want to say thank you John, for providing that link to the frequency vid. This is a very good visual example of how sound/frequencies affect various material mass, and this may help some folks to be able to perceive the concept of what we are talking about here.
Secondly, Magick, I believe that you are correct in your perception about harmonics and resonant frequencies having the potential to disrupt and/or reorder mass to the extent that very little electrical current might be needed to produce what some of us refer to as "Flash Hydrogen" from H2O.
During the time that our acting engineer had been running tests on the HOPE unit that I had sent him, he reported to me that at certain frequencies many of the metal objects nearby would either be instantly transformed into fine powder or would fracture into millions of tiny pieces. I have had my own experiences while researching the HOPE discovery and hope to be able to explore this further once I am able to overcome some problems that I've been having with building several newer HOPE models.
What we are talking about here is related closely to "Sonofusion" and also the "Hutchison Effect". I just want you guys to know that I very much appreciate your help and input. Few people seem to understand the basic principals behind this area of physics and so it is always uplifting to me to hear from others who do. I only wish that there were more people who could see the logic to this approach so that we could move forward a whole lot faster.
Best Regards,
Jim
Dear Jim,
I think theretime your best helper,HOPE related,is
the OU-member "adremko"("E faz-se Luz"-Trindade-orientated ?) !
Sonofusion:
What you want to get as help is a "light"-level,
with workerqualifications like Einstein,Bose,Casimir,Sparnaay,Christofilos
Los Alamos NL is also searching for such an device !
I think that for this process we will need a double-conversion system,
it has to be a three-step-process !
I will be glad when I will reach the first,stable cyclotronic state,level !
Sincerely
de Lanca
This guy Stiffler is on to something. I can produce visibly similar ammounts of gas using 12 volts across stainless steel plates in distilled water and an electrolyte. The difference is that I need much more plate surface area and a current flow between 10 and 20 amps. BIG difference.
If Stiffler can do that kind of production with mA and what seems to be a single wire submersed, what kind of circuit is he driving this with? Is this like an antenna? Transmitting RF into the water?
Obviously, using this technology for an engine would simply require adding more cells for higher volume gas output. Total system rerquirements would still be low with many cells.
FYI.....Stiffler's controll circuit may be frequency related (tuned to atomicly resonate water) but it won't match Stanley Meyers frequency. Meyers was resonating his electrolosyser plates, which were plates of a water capicitor, to the resonant frequency of an electrical tank circuit, utilizing a high voltage inductive kick from a transformer. The water was the dielectric of the capicitor. Simply put, banging the water with electrical spikes created by resonating a inductor and capasitor together.
The inductor/capicitor circuit has a big bang to it. Just ask Tesla.
Interesting thought on Meyer, he went on further with patent advancements to include laser light to increase gas production. Someone mention microwaves?
If your looking for the magical frequency for splitting water with complicated electrical vibrations for your HOPE machine, check out this:
http://www.rexresearch.com/puharich/1puhar.htm#4394230
This guy was the master. Split distilled water. Atomic Resonance. Very complicated electronics, variable and changing modulated waveforms and specific designed resonating splitting chambers. Nothing cheesey here.
But only Nasa could build this.
However......
I want to know more about Stiffler. Does anyone have any information about this latest update of his, with this high gas low current trick? Any information on the circuitry? Any information on electrical waveforms?
I dug through the limited Stiffler Scientific website but couldn't find much. He's only selling the information to colleges for seminar purposes. Good for him. Good for Science advancement! Good for Mankind! But I don't attend these places. Bad for me!
Thanks;
-sNick
Thank you sNick. You just gave me all the information that I've been looking for for a long time. So, it appears that this is possible afterall eh? With all the doubts about which alleged technologies are real and which ones are scams/frauds it is my opinion that more of us should return to what we know to be certain. Splitting H2O is one of those sure things, and if we can find a highly efficient way to do that we are well on our way to solving our immediate problems anyway. The chances of me being able to find a better way than this guy are pretty slim with what I have to work with but, perhaps if enough of us focus our attention on what we know to be proven science we could greatly improve the chances. Thanks again for that info sNick. Now I know which direction to go from here. If I find anything worth-while sharing I will definately let everyone here know.
Cheers,
Jim
This is the way. There probably won't be a better way at all, ever. After all, what is water? A soup of atoms. The atomic resonance method via complicated changing modulated electrical waveforms is probably the most efficient dis-association of chemical bonds possible. Any other method should be less efficient, say mechanical/sonic disassociation of chemicals or maybe heat exchange disassociation; less efficient because chemicals are held together by electrical bonds and injecting perfectly tuned electricity instead of some other means is a direct attack on those bonds. Just when the Doctor ordered.
Now if anything, try to adopt this guy Puharich's technology to be simpler to construct. Maybe build the thing first piece by piece, then modify components, say the chamber, to be made from easily accessible parts for easy construction and massproduction. Maybe find a way to simplify the electronics, which he shows in great detail if you look up one of the patent numbers listed in the text on that link I sent.
http://www.rexresearch.com/puharich/1puhar.htm#4394230
Maybe this guy Puharich already simplified design plans to include store bought parts. Maybe someone on this board will look at the diagrams on this link and recognise some of the parts. I for one can not.
I'd like to see a colaborated effort to replicate this technology.
Interesting thing.... This guy in his system changes the wave shape and frequency as the water starts to disassociate, to further push it into a higher volume per moment disassociation. There was another link on this site I saw the other day where someone was saying something similar.
http://www.ecosustainablevillage.com/us_patents.htm
I tried something similar to this; a function generator hooked up to an amplifier, again stainless steele plates in distilled water, with a different electrolyte, swept through a wide range of frequency's slowly and found no magical frequency. But this guy, like Puharich, is changing the frequency as the process occurs, starting small but building increased action.
Similar thoughts (was this Teslas?) http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,485.0.html
Still looking for information on Stiffler... Anyone?
-sNick
After 33+ years of intensive investigation and research into alternative energy technologies I have come to believe the same as you sNick. I do definately believe that this is indeed the best/most likely route to take in our search for alternative energy. The information that you have supplied in your recent posts to this subject have been of great interest to me. Especially the link you gave to the gentleman who used less than 5v/300mA to split approx., .5 litre of water. If this information is honest and accurate it essentially provides irrefutable evidence that this approach can produce potentially more hydrogen per energy quantum than any other method that I have been able to find. If this information is in fact true then it is the frequency of the applied signal/current that we need to focus on and not necessarily the amount of energy we need to crack H2O. I want you to know that you have encouraged such curiosity in me that I have decided to change the immediate direction of my R&D to investigate the claims that these fellow researchers are making. I have made enough progress in the development of HOPE technologies at this point that if these claims are in fact true, I believe we should be able to crack at least the equivilant volume of H20 with nothing more than the amount of power recieved by a crystal radio for example. I plan to post an update on my HOPE R&D in the appropriate subject area very soon for those who may be interested. At this time however, I just want to thank you sNick, and also John, for the very encouraging and exciting information that you guys have been so kind as to share with this group. No doubt that, if we are to see anything other than fossil fuels and the various other polluting energy technologies being widely used anytime soon we are the ones who will have to make it happen. I will be re-directing my efforts towards this area of research and will keep you all posted on anything of importance that I find.
Best Regards All,
Jim
So I dug a little further on Stiffler's site.
http://www.stifflerscientific.org/cre.html
So according to this, Stiffler himsels says his process is Not cost efficient. Appearantly, he is only gaining a max uf twice the normal output by recapturing the spent energy in a capasitor and discharging that same energy through the electrolosys cell during a 50% duty cycly "off" time of the power supply. Basically utilizing half the power at input by switching off 50% of the time, and in that time, re-dumping captured and normally wasted energy. Stiffler himself says this circuit cannever be more than 100 the conventional output.
It is however an advance.
Something to note, Stiffler is talking about the Redux reaction actually being ionic in his case. This is NOT ordinary electrolosys.
He also mentions Stanley Meyers, but that his own work was NOT that of Stanley myers, but that Myers only inspired him in this direction.
I guess it's back to the drawing board to find that elusive process. I believe Myers or Puharich is the way to go.
i also like the myers approch.have an extra car that im going to try it on.sellling my second house for funds to persue this and the gray circut.i feel thease are the best bets.in about 20 days is the closeing,so when i start i will post my results and pics every week for others to try and confirm my findings if any.im a millwright by trade and have four years in electronics training.the diagrams i have seem simple enough also any help will be greatly appreciated.free power for all is my goal.lets break the oil companies back.
Hi!
I'm a relatively nem member, and i like to share the results of my experiments.
I observed a very interesting effect, during my research of a Meyer-like device.
I used quality distilled water. Normally it's not conductive. With high voltages, and special conditions, it produces very interesting things.
When I put high voltage to the water, with a thick electrode (a leg of a HV diode) a water can be pulled out from the surface, like a "gum"
I think it caused by special flows, generated by a magnetic and electric field.
http://www.hvlabs.hu/zpe/huzaseffekt/MVI_3358.AVI
http://www.hvlabs.hu/zpe/huzaseffekt/IMG_3357k.jpg
A generator is an overdrived flyback-transformer, about 100 W, at about 27KHz. Freq is not critical. (tune to the flyback's self res.)
The Meyer-effect replicated also, but not in resonance. There have less efficiency, it generates too much heat.
Its driven by a push-pull inverter, that generates 600V, at 42,8KHz (i observed a freq is not important in this setup... sorry)
A voltage rectified by a string of UF4007 diodes (6 pcs in series) and after two flybacks's secondary attached boths side of the cell.
That's like the normal Meyer circuit.
And the trick:
An electrodes need to be very closer! (and if possible, placed in an "edge" form) Without it, cell doesn't produce any gas. Interesting. Isn't it?
The plates haven't enough capacitance to creates resonance. But with wider surface, resistive losses damatically increases, that cause the heating of water.
http://www.hvlabs.hu/zpe/meyer/MVI_3364.AVI
http://www.hvlabs.hu/zpe/meyer/MVI_3365.AVI
http://www.hvlabs.hu/zpe/meyer/MVI_3368.AVI
http://www.hvlabs.hu/zpe/meyer/MVI_3369.AVI
(on the last video one of the flyback-based inductor can be seen)
The third experiment was egaspower. (It's posted on a forum on yahoo?)
A few hundred uF elko charged t0 300V, was discharged underwater. It's a little bit difficult, because resistive losses discharges the capacitor, and causes heating. It needs an insulated electrodes, with VERY small free conductive part. I cut a stripe from a normal house wire. The arc formed between two free wire-ends.
It needs a trigger circuit at least 6 KV. Expample an ingition transformer. i use 6V type, drive from 12V. It makes enough trigger energy.
The problem are diodes. Very high current and high voltage types are recommended. I burned ot some MW oven diodes.
The original circuit:
http://www.hvlabs.hu/tmp/engine1.gif
My setup:
http://www.hvlabs.hu/tmp/egaspower1.jpg
http://www.hvlabs.hu/tmp/egaspower1.avi
http://www.hvlabs.hu/tmp/egaspower2.avi
http://www.hvlabs.hu/tmp/egaspower3.avi
http://www.hvlabs.hu/tmp/egaspower4.avi
The result: It generates very strong shock waves (the plastic jar jumping) In the first experiment, a glass jar was blown out.... You can easily blow out beer glass (first drink the beer! :) ) Unfortunately a gadget doesn't generate hidrogen. I think the hidrogen burns out immediately.
Maybe If you put some comprimed water steam into a cylinder, you would generate a shock wave in the cylinder, converting this energy into a usable form. The original plan uses egaspower circuit to firing a mixture of gasoline/water. I like only use water. But It needs more energy.
And finally the plasma electrlolisis project:
The same supply used in the previous experiment (rectified 230V AC+elko)
A Wolfram weldin electrode (4mm thick) can be placed into a sodabicarbone (sodium-hydrogen-carbonate) solution. Te arg generates VERY much heat, but I can't measure it. A strong plasma easily melts wolfram, or other. With carbon rod, you can generate a HIGH amount of generator gas (H2+CO) but it's not an overunity trick, because a carbon rod grows thinner. (forming CO, catches the O2 part of the water)
http://www.hvlabs.hu/tmp/plasma_electrolisis.avi
That's all for today. Huh.
Good work!
Ros-Co.
http://www.hvlabs.hu
(warning! It's only avaiable on martian's language! :) )
Meyers patent is similar to Stiffler's work in that Meyers was also using 50 percent duty cycle, with his torroid transformer kickback voltage filling in the gap as every other pulse in his step charging scheme.
Also, myers patent clearly states "No Electrolyte" !!!!!! I saw the video, he was filling the device with tap water!
It's the High Voltage slaping across the electrodes, charging the highly resistive non electrolyte water. More pulses in charging cycle, higher the voltage rises.... This is his step charging process.
Hey, Ros-Co... cool pictures of the HV causing the water surface tension to bend upward toward the electrode. That looks something like what Puharich was talking about in his patent. But I didn't read that too carefully.
Meyers early device I saw on the video had one chamber, several concentric ring electrodes contained within. Obviously, a way to increase electrode surface area in the water. Again, trying to keep current at a minimum, more surface area = more capacitance, slower resonant tank frequency; water capacitor with the inductors and transformer winding. I'm thinking any transformer should work as long as it has high enough turns ratio to induce high enough secondary voltage. Frequency I would think could be ajusted by ajusting inductance of accompanying series inductors. I'm gonna' tinker in this direction.
-sNick
Quote from: Ros-Co. on May 28, 2006, 07:47:12 AM
Hi!
I'm a relatively nem member, and i like to share the results of my experiments.
I observed a very interesting effect, during my research of a Meyer-like device.
I used quality distilled water. Normally it's not conductive. With high voltages, and special conditions, it produces very interesting things.
When I put high voltage to the water, with a thick electrode (a leg of a HV diode) a water can be pulled out from the surface, like a "gum"
I think it caused by special flows, generated by a magnetic and electric field.
http://www.hvlabs.hu/zpe/huzaseffekt/MVI_3358.AVI
http://www.hvlabs.hu/zpe/huzaseffekt/IMG_3357k.jpg
A generator is an overdrived flyback-transformer, about 100 W, at about 27KHz. Freq is not critical. (tune to the flyback's self res.)
The Meyer-effect replicated also, but not in resonance. There have less efficiency, it generates too much heat.
Its driven by a push-pull inverter, that generates 600V, at 42,8KHz (i observed a freq is not important in this setup... sorry)
A voltage rectified by a string of UF4007 diodes (6 pcs in series) and after two flybacks's secondary attached boths side of the cell.
That's like the normal Meyer circuit.
And the trick:
An electrodes need to be very closer! (and if possible, placed in an "edge" form) Without it, cell doesn't produce any gas. Interesting. Isn't it?
The plates haven't enough capacitance to creates resonance. But with wider surface, resistive losses damatically increases, that cause the heating of water.
http://www.hvlabs.hu/zpe/meyer/MVI_3364.AVI
http://www.hvlabs.hu/zpe/meyer/MVI_3365.AVI
http://www.hvlabs.hu/zpe/meyer/MVI_3368.AVI
http://www.hvlabs.hu/zpe/meyer/MVI_3369.AVI
(on the last video one of the flyback-based inductor can be seen)
The third experiment was egaspower. (It's posted on a forum on yahoo?)
A few hundred uF elko charged t0 300V, was discharged underwater. It's a little bit difficult, because resistive losses discharges the capacitor, and causes heating. It needs an insulated electrodes, with VERY small free conductive part. I cut a stripe from a normal house wire. The arc formed between two free wire-ends.
It needs a trigger circuit at least 6 KV. Expample an ingition transformer. i use 6V type, drive from 12V. It makes enough trigger energy.
The problem are diodes. Very high current and high voltage types are recommended. I burned ot some MW oven diodes.
The original circuit:
http://www.hvlabs.hu/tmp/engine1.gif
My setup:
http://www.hvlabs.hu/tmp/egaspower1.jpg
http://www.hvlabs.hu/tmp/egaspower1.avi
http://www.hvlabs.hu/tmp/egaspower2.avi
http://www.hvlabs.hu/tmp/egaspower3.avi
http://www.hvlabs.hu/tmp/egaspower4.avi
The result: It generates very strong shock waves (the plastic jar jumping) In the first experiment, a glass jar was blown out.... You can easily blow out beer glass (first drink the beer! :) ) Unfortunately a gadget doesn't generate hidrogen. I think the hidrogen burns out immediately.
Maybe If you put some comprimed water steam into a cylinder, you would generate a shock wave in the cylinder, converting this energy into a usable form. The original plan uses egaspower circuit to firing a mixture of gasoline/water. I like only use water. But It needs more energy.
And finally the plasma electrlolisis project:
The same supply used in the previous experiment (rectified 230V AC+elko)
A Wolfram weldin electrode (4mm thick) can be placed into a sodabicarbone (sodium-hydrogen-carbonate) solution. Te arg generates VERY much heat, but I can't measure it. A strong plasma easily melts wolfram, or other. With carbon rod, you can generate a HIGH amount of generator gas (H2+CO) but it's not an overunity trick, because a carbon rod grows thinner. (forming CO, catches the O2 part of the water)
http://www.hvlabs.hu/tmp/plasma_electrolisis.avi
That's all for today. Huh.
Good work!
Ros-Co.
http://www.hvlabs.hu
(warning! It's only avaiable on martian's language! :) )
Nice work, thanks for posting.
on the last http://www.hvlabs.hu/tmp/egaspower4.avi
what voltage, current are you measuring at what frequencies?
Tia
Hi Ros-Co,
nice experiments !
You wrote:
Quote
And finally the plasma electrlolisis project:
The same supply used in the previous experiment (rectified 230V AC+elko)
A Wolfram weldin electrode (4mm thick) can be placed into a sodabicarbone (sodium-hydrogen-carbonate) solution. Te arg generates VERY much heat, but I can't measure it. A strong plasma easily melts wolfram, or other. With carbon rod, you can generate a HIGH amount of generator gas (H2+CO) but it's not an overunity trick, because a carbon rod grows thinner. (forming CO, catches the O2 part of the water)
http://www.hvlabs.hu/tmp/plasma_electrolisis.avi
a few questions:
Are you able with your power supply to get an ARC
UNDER WATER with 2 tungsten rods ?
So put 2 rods from the side into the water-bicarbonate solution
like a "V" shape and let them touch slightly under water and
pull them a bit appart.
( Please don?t do this by your 2 hands as if you touch
the 2 rods incidently you could get an electroshock, that
could kill you ! Place the 1st rod on a holder stand into the water
by 45 degrees and use only the right hand to touch via isolated
gloves or something simular the 2nd rod and put them under water
and touch the 1st electrode and pull them apart, so that an arc will be
got..)
Can you still get an arc then burning under the water ?
Maybe this needs more DC input power ?
Maybe 800 Volts DC and higher Amperage ?
( Be extremly cautious not to get an electroshock,
cause 800 Volts DC at a big capacitor will kill you
in an instant !!!!! :o )
If you get this to work you could generate also
some kind of generator gas or at least lots of steam
heat for a good overunity heater !
The only thing which you would consume would be the water
and the tungsten rods might not be consumed under water ??
Question for saintsnick Post#13 May23,2006
You made the following statement;
"Something to note, Stiffler is talking about the Redux reaction actually being ionic in his case. This is NOT ordinary electrolosys."
Lets say we have a mild salt solution (NaCl),
Cathode reaction = 2e- + 2(H2O) -----> H2 + 2(OH-)
Anode reaction = 2(H2O) ----> O2 + 4H+ + 4e-
The eletrode reaction are for the most part the same for almost all dilute aqueous electrolytes and even for pure water.
So where is ionic not ordinary electrolysis. If it were ohmic would not the e- flow from one electrode to the other, bypassing the above reaction?
My understanding of electrolysis holds with that defined by Linus Pauling, "General Chemistry" 1970.
You other findings from the site are correct as to how the CRE works, yet we can obtain 180% eff. using this method, although as explained it does have it limitations.
Thanks for looking through the info and getting it right, most don't.
Hi!
Thanx :)
I tried to produce an arc underwater, but I can' still it. Only a very short arc produced (I think the water cool the plasma too fast)
I tried it with a Microwave Oven Transformer (MOT) (2100V, 0,4A) but the water has too low resistance, and overload a transformer, so it is not produce underwater arc.
I'll try your idea with tungsten rods. Maybe distilled water produce less ohmic losses. Or an insulator needed round the electrodes.
On plasma electrolisis, tungsten rods easily damaged (lower melt point metals more) I have an idea to eliminate it. (It was Tesla's idea)
Why not splash out 2 water jet from a rotating disc, in 90 degree? Water jets crosses, and produces arc. There are NO corrosive electrodes.
Power level easily increased, but no electrodes.
In egaspower setup, a high voltage arc under water produce plasma, or trigger, and after, a much lower voltage (and much larger current) arc discharged across the electrodes. The energy stored in elko about 100x than the trigger energy. Maybe this setup produces a few centimetres long discharge under water. I think it produces a very big explosion.
Howdy Ros-Co,
You need low Voltage and high Amperage (just like in welding).
Have a look at this page of Naudin's site:
http://jlnlabs.imars.com/bingofuel/html/aquagen.htm
And this selfrunner:
http://jlnlabs.imars.com/bingofuel/html/bfr5hpgen.htm
(EDIT) Sorry my remark is off topic and has nothing to do with your experiment :(
I should have read the complete thread which I did not, sorry again.
Quote from: Ros-Co. on June 06, 2006, 04:04:36 PM
Hi!
Thanx :)
I tried to produce an arc underwater, but I can' still it. Only a very short arc produced (I think the water cool the plasma too fast)
I tried it with a Microwave Oven Transformer (MOT) (2100V, 0,4A) but the water has too low resistance, and overload a transformer, so it is not produce underwater arc.
You should better try with a low voltage welding transformer which
has big amperes !
Quote
Why not splash out 2 water jet from a rotating disc, in 90 degree? Water jets crosses, and produces arc. There are NO corrosive electrodes.
Power level easily increased, but no electrodes.
This is a very good idea, but the goal was an arc under water
to get , so one could use it to
burn also old plants and gras and bio waste products with it,
which could be put into the
water and get burned also and produce with the Water H2 and CO gas
for powering generators...
So how could you catch the H2 and CO gases, when you burn
the water-biowaste solution by streaming 2 streams of them together and
they just meet in the air ?
You would probably need to do this in a metallic tank somehow to
catch the gases at the top...
But as these are burnable, it would be a risk of explosion..
So how could you get these charged water streams to buildup an arc under water ?
Any idea ?
In my experiment, the underwater arc not produce hidrogen, because it burns out immediately. A device produces great amount of heat. (as in Jnaudin's experiment)
But explosion is possible in the chamber...
We have to find a way to produce plasma under
water with no consumptions of electrodes and
mix with the water biowaste products and thus
produce these Aquafuel or Bingofuel gases,
mainly a mix of H2 and CO gases.
This would be the ultimate goal to have such a process
running without consuming electrodes and low power input and produce
burnable gases which can drive a motor-generator.
Surely we should avoid biomass etc as this will produce CO2.
Aiming for generating H2 and O2 and being able to use this mix is
better. Is this not Browns Gas? Is ther eOU performance associated
with Browns Gas (and underwater welding)?
In the "hydroxy" YahooGroup, they say that there is a distinction
between producing:
1. H2 and O2
2. HHO (whatever that is)
3. monatomic H and O gases
Can anyone shed light on this?
Paul.
Hello all,
i'm new in this forum but i believe that this ovservations of electrode shapes and H2 produktion is one of the interesting aspects.
I observe the same behavior at my electrodes (plain plates). At the edges there is almost more H2 produced as at the plates self.
I think we shout spend a little bit more investigation what is the reason for that.
Greetings,
Highway
Quote from: RonS on June 01, 2006, 08:15:08 PM
Lets say we have a mild salt solution (NaCl),
Cathode reaction = 2e- + 2(H2O) -----> H2 + 2(OH-)
Anode reaction = 2(H2O) ----> O2 + 4H+ + 4e-
No, avoid NaCl!
You won't get O2, you'll get Cl2 in stead!
Use NaOH or KOH instead since you then only add the Na/K ions as 'contaminants'.
Partly true, only under high Na concentration. Normally Cl gas is liberated only from molten salt solutions during electrolysis where both sodium (Na) and clorine (Cl[g]) is produced. This could be looked at in the following shor reaction 2NaCl ----> 2Na + Cl2
Where in a weak solution the reaction is not the same. The electrodes do indeed give off H and O as desired. NaCl does less damage to internal cell than sodium hydroxide because most over the counter products contain Al flakes which is the reaction material when the Al oxide is removed and heat is generated to clean your drain.
It is far better that in experimenting that one use something such as NaCl to be on the safe side until a final working system is fully designed.
This is my first post here hello all. First of all this is a little off subject im sorry. I have no electrical expierience at all but i am a machinist looking to buddy up with some one from around mi. to help aid in cell design and function. After watching and listening to alot of idea witch there all good if they head us in the right direction. I was wondering if some idea's are intentional in pushing the wrong direction. I think the oil industry has the know how right now to use hydrogen but selling it and keeping the profit in there pockets is there problem. They also know grass roots level of people are real close to busting them. good luck to all. lets put them out of business . Please e-mail me at bigjohn070@comcast.net thank you.
;D ;D ;D
Quote from: Ros-Co. on June 06, 2006, 04:04:36 PM
Hi!
Thanx :)
I tried to produce an arc underwater, but I can' still it. Only a very short arc produced (I think the water cool the plasma too fast)
I tried it with a Microwave Oven Transformer (MOT) (2100V, 0,4A) but the water has too low resistance, and overload a transformer, so it is not produce underwater arc.
I'll try your idea with tungsten rods. Maybe distilled water produce less ohmic losses. Or an insulator needed round the electrodes.
On plasma electrolisis, tungsten rods easily damaged (lower melt point metals more) I have an idea to eliminate it. (It was Tesla's idea)
Stainless steel "grade 316" is practicaly indestructable... Try it out. I think you'll be pleased with the results. I know for a fact it is able to produce plasma arcs and is resistant to most acids and bases.
Good luck,
~Dingus
Hi everyone, Just in case you thought I was full of BS read this on Zigouras Racing:
http://blog.waterforfuel.com/2007/03/17/sky-driver-airlines-dropping-you-off-exactly-where-you-need-to-be.aspx#Comment
As you can see the US has it head in the ground like an osterage, hoping things will just get better somehow. I was really counting on Zigs too come through, since Hypowerfuel.com seems to have stopped for some reason also. waterforfuel.com is so close to getting things working I hope he makes it. I need more time and money always too broke to get things done in a timely fashion. Gas where I am is 335 a gallon now, just because, for there is no Huricain, or full scale war to blaim this time. The weather is good, we are at peace, just helping that country to get on their feet, so why the big increase in fuel prices?
It just makes me angry to see technology being supresst, and we really need it now. To many people are going without power that have families to raise, but the cost of living just is too much for them too bare.
Meyer's technology really works, it just needs some fine tunning is all. High voltage and low current do a number to water, Zigs was electrolizing aproximently two gallons a hour, and that's way more than any car would need to run on. I want to save our oil for it is needed to make plastics or do we want a clay TV box ???. I hate the way things are looking for it seems we have no future pass 2025, and the Government is fine with that, go figure.