If you are trying to share information in the forums and someone keeps posting that what you are doing will never work, or just fill the post with a lot of negativity, just do a search on all he has posted. If you find that he has been 90% negative in everything he has posted and doesn't contribute anything of value you are probably wasting your time trying to argue with them in posts. You are dealing with someone who is probably paid with your own tax dollars to discourage you. Its better to just expose them. We will see how many of them argue in this post and show themselves. ;D
Tell me were I can get payed for such. I need the income.
Quote from: the badger on May 26, 2009, 12:22:27 PM
If you are trying to share information in the forums and someone keeps posting that what you are doing will never work, or just fill the post with a lot of negativity, just do a search on all he has posted. If you find that he has been 90% negative in everything he has posted and doesn't contribute anything of value you are probably wasting your time trying to argue with them in posts. You are dealing with someone who is probably paid with your own tax dollars to discourage you. Its better to just expose them. We will see how many of them argue in this post and show themselves. ;D
Quote from: the badger on May 26, 2009, 12:22:27 PM
If you are trying to share information in the forums and someone keeps posting that what you are doing will never work, or just fill the post with a lot of negativity, just do a search on all he has posted. If you find that he has been 90% negative in everything he has posted and doesn't contribute anything of value you are probably wasting your time trying to argue with them in posts. You are dealing with someone who is probably paid with your own tax dollars to discourage you. Its better to just expose them. We will see how many of them argue in this post and show themselves. ;D
LOL. This is funny.. Darn them MIB disinfo agents!!
Why would the US government need to pay someone too spread disinfo, when you guys DO IT FOR FREE EVERY DAY!!!!!
rofl.. You are your own worst enemy!!!
Quote from: the badger on May 26, 2009, 12:22:27 PM
If you are trying to share information in the forums and someone keeps posting that what you are doing will never work, or just fill the post with a lot of negativity, just do a search on all he has posted. If you find that he has been 90% negative in everything he has posted and doesn't contribute anything of value you are probably wasting your time trying to argue with them in posts. You are dealing with someone who is probably paid with your own tax dollars to discourage you. Its better to just expose them. We will see how many of them argue in this post and show themselves. ;D
You're confusing MIB's with people who have already seen an experiment and know why it will not work.
You can spot someone who is emotionally involved with something which they have no real knowledge of. They start threads like this.
Please tell me why you think Rick's experiment can possibly work. Otherwise, don't waste space with silly threads.
Back when i was mainly in the political blog genre, i was "recruited" for this (or specifically, they tried to). I went along with it long enough to find out what the deal was. It required doing a writing test that shows the person's "persuasive writing" ability. At least with the people who offered me work, it went like this:
A "Contractor" who is a third party "cutout", hires people to shill. The individual "free-lance" shills are usually not told who the actual "Client" is (although they can often guess because of the message). The shills are given their next "projects" (sometimes as a team), given info on how to mask their MAC numbers and change I.P.'s, and sent a URL for a forum to go to, and of course the specific "message" they are supposed to disseminate and push there. Sometimes forum names of people there are also given to "support" or '"attack"; and they are often provided background info needed for them to sound "up to speed" on the subjects discussed (lol one way to detect them is they will often use "buzz words" indiscriminately and inappropriately as a means of trying to establish "cover").
Sometimes, existing forum accounts are used by giving the new person a pre-existing account name and password. This gets tricky, as people can often exhibit a strange and innate subconscious ability to detect differences in writing style (whether this is "ESP" or simply "intuition" is hard to say, but it does exist). Those that do this, usually keep their posts as short as possible... The less said the better.
The targets are not always open forums, but often news sites (like newspapers' online sites, or news orgs' online sites like "CNN"), that have popular "Comment" areas under the day's articles.
The intent is not always direct, but sometimes more subtle, in that the threads are often attempted to be "shaped" and "guided" by a team working together in certain directions first for a while as a "set-up" for some specific reason that later comes out. Not only that, but there is frequent use of something called
"REVERSE BIAS"
which means that the shill will often start out new on the site, posting in favor of the thing they are actually against. This can work two ways: "One", as setting a "provenance" and "bona fides" for the shill, and "Two" as a means of subtly dis'ing a subject by pretending to be for it. Often in the first case, the person will later "change sides"... LOL as a means of saying: "Gee, i was convinced by the wonderful arguments on the other side that i was completely wrong before! Thanks for saving me from my own stupidity!" ;)
And YES, i did tell them to got to hell ;)
Lawyers who are out of work or currently "under-employed", are often tapped for this work... Either as free lancers or contracted through their Firm. Lol i guess the idea is that they are better than average at Debate (since this is actually taught in Law School).... But the truth is, very few of these people no mater where they come from, are any good at all ;) When it comes down to it, they usually "suck" and their main strategy is to often use ad hominem personal attacks and threat of derision. In fact this is a main indicator to watch for... Not that many adults will stoop to these tactics unless first provoked. But some will who are not shills lol, so it is only ONE indicator and not "proof".
Shills can be effective on less intelligent people who are confused by more arcane arguments, by re-defining the argument into a more simple context, then once that is done they use straw-man arguments "proving" the new, simpler thrust that meets their goals... Basically it is a "bait and switch" game; and classic misdirection... Tarring all the subject by defining only one part of it.... Lol, sound familiar? ;)
"Shilling" is not a new profession (lol if it can actually be called a profession, like "egg sucking" could ;) ), but it has changed and grown greatly since the rise of the Internet.
I have read that the U.S. military uses actual military personnel to shill directly for them as well in at least some cases. But it would be hard to prove that one i imagine ;)
But i've said this before, and will again prolly, lol:
The majority of people suspected of being "shills" or "dis-info artists" on these sites (which are the same thing imo), are probably not really. They are simply people who disagree with us ;) So caution is suggested, and it is rarely wise to directly confront them (unless some good proofs exist first.. Which ARE possible to obtain).
Having said that, they certainly do exist and there are probably some reading this thread right now;) The fun part of it is, they are just "people", and are nothing to fear as they are just jerks without any personal honor sitting at their computers... And they certainly can be manipulated, the same way they try to do with others :)
Quote from: jibbguy on May 26, 2009, 02:01:11 PM
The majority of people suspected of being "shills" or "dis-info artists" on these sites (which are the same thing imo), are probably not really. They are simply people who disagree with us ;) So caution is suggested, and it is rarely wise to directly confront them (unless some good proofs exist first.. Which ARE possible to obtain).
Yes, it is called a witch hunt and just the level of suspicion necessary to drive this already esoteric pursuit further into problematic areas and internecine fighting.
The FE/OU community already has the laws of physics against them must they also seek other antagonists to rail against? Like I said elsewhere, the best revenge is success. Any successful demonstration of free energy or over unity will be the best defense against naysayers and the surest way to shut them up.
Good post Jibguy. I go by a persons posting history to get a feel if someone is a shill. All you have to do is click on their name and then show posts and if you read back you can easily get a sense if someone is a shill by all the negativity and bickering they cause. They call themselves skeptics but if there is something I don't believe in (e.g. religion) I just don't bother going to those sites or forums. I can't be bothered to waste time to argue and nitpick over something I don't believe in. If people want to believe something that's their choice. Getting paid to do it though would give some people motive.
Quote from: jibbguy on May 26, 2009, 02:01:11 PM
Back when i was mainly in the political blog genre, i was "recruited" for this (or specifically, they tried to). I went along with it long enough to find out what the deal was. It required doing a writing test that shows the person's "persuasive writing" ability. At least with the people who offered me work, it went like this:
A "Contractor" who is a third party "cutout", hires people to shill. The individual "free-lance" shills are usually not told who the actual "Client" is (although they can often guess because of the message). The shills are given their next "projects" (sometimes as a team), given info on how to mask their MAC numbers and change I.P.'s, and sent a URL for a forum to go to, and of course the specific "message" they are supposed to disseminate and push there. Sometimes forum names of people there are also given to "support" or '"attack"; and they are often provided background info needed for them to sound "up to speed" on the subjects discussed (lol one way to detect them is they will often use "buzz words" indiscriminately and inappropriately as a means of trying to establish "cover").
Sometimes, existing forum accounts are used by giving the new person a pre-existing account name and password. This gets tricky, as people can often exhibit a strange and innate subconscious ability to detect differences in writing style (whether this is "ESP" or simply "intuition" is hard to say, but it does exist). Those that do this, usually keep their posts as short as possible... The less said the better.
The targets are not always open forums, but often news sites (like newspapers' online sites, or news orgs' online sites like "CNN"), that have popular "Comment" areas under the day's articles.
The intent is not always direct, but sometimes more subtle, in that the threads are often attempted to be "shaped" and "guided" by a team working together in certain directions first for a while as a "set-up" for some specific reason that later comes out. Not only that, but there is frequent use of something called
"REVERSE BIAS"
which means that the shill will often start out new on the site, posting in favor of the thing they are actually against. This can work two ways: "One", as setting a "provenance" and "bona fides" for the shill, and "Two" as a means of subtly dis'ing a subject by pretending to be for it. Often in the first case, the person will later "change sides"... LOL as a means of saying: "Gee, i was convinced by the wonderful arguments on the other side that i was completely wrong before! Thanks for saving me from my own stupidity!" ;)
And YES, i did tell them to got to hell ;)
Lawyers who are out of work or currently "under-employed", are often tapped for this work... Either as free lancers or contracted through their Firm. Lol i guess the idea is that they are better than average at Debate (since this is actually taught in Law School).... But the truth is, very few of these people no mater where they come from, are any good at all ;) When it comes down to it, they usually "suck" and their main strategy is to often use ad hominem personal attacks and threat of derision. In fact this is a main indicator to watch for... Not that many adults will stoop to these tactics unless first provoked. But some will who are not shills lol, so it is only ONE indicator and not "proof".
Shills can be effective on less intelligent people who are confused by more arcane arguments, by re-defining the argument into a more simple context, then once that is done they use straw-man arguments "proving" the new, simpler thrust that meets their goals... Basically it is a "bait and switch" game; and classic misdirection... Tarring all the subject by defining only one part of it.... Lol, sound familiar? ;)
"Shilling" is not a new profession (lol if it can actually be called a profession, like "egg sucking" could ;) ), but it has changed and grown greatly since the rise of the Internet.
I have read that the U.S. military uses actual military personnel to shill directly for them as well in at least some cases. But it would be hard to prove that one i imagine ;)
But i've said this before, and will again prolly, lol:
The majority of people suspected of being "shills" or "dis-info artists" on these sites (which are the same thing imo), are probably not really. They are simply people who disagree with us ;) So caution is suggested, and it is rarely wise to directly confront them (unless some good proofs exist first.. Which ARE possible to obtain).
Having said that, they certainly do exist and there are probably some reading this thread right now;) The fun part of it is, they are just "people", and are nothing to fear as they are just jerks without any personal honor sitting at their computers... And they certainly can be manipulated, the same way they try to do with others :)
This type of organized "misinfo" is probably seen more on stock market forums for than sites like this... But I think you are mostly speculating here. People will inadvertently do this on this site, to the point where it seems like an organized strategy, when it probably really is not.
There's an ignore feature in this forum, you can ignore all posts of any member if you find them to be unpleasant all the time. It's not that well known, but this thread tells you how to use it:
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=7488.0
I don't use it myself but I guess it could be handy for someone whos getting really wound up.
Yep, good thread and important subject for these days here on this forum.
I sent a PM to @stefan last night and will see what he says, but the gist of it is "It's time to clean up this forum".
Our main recent topic being Mylow's disclosure was imply bamboozled to hell and back. Why would bonafide OU members act in this way just goes beyond any sense of logic. And this is the main reason I am pushing on getting to the bottom of this. Something smells in Camelot and it ain't the the fuzzy cheese.
If this was a general forum, one would expect many characters but this WAS an OU forum and we HAD standards and we BANNED even great minds from the forum just because of their continuous repetition of "This ain't real". We just banned them and that's the end of the story. This is where we need to be again.
I think I will look into making a new OU Web Site myself designed for only OU disclosures with a limited membership list and some membership criteria like two years presence on an existing OU forum where one can analyze the members real orientations as being fair, open minded, knowledgeable in various aspects and most importantly respectful to other members and visitors. I don't think there can be any other way around this if @stefan does not want to take measures himself or mandate someone else to do the job. Hand raised. lol
The basic premise is simple. People have a right to expect to meet in an OU forum regarding OU matters and not be continuously subjected to negative harassment which is exactly what this is. Our right to peaceful assembly and interest in OU activities is greater then any one persons right to free expression.
if you can't get with the program, you should be banned. Simple enough. Do this once or twice or three times and the rest of those members will get the message loud and clear and eventually leave on their own or act accordingly.
Quote from: wattsup on May 26, 2009, 02:46:51 PM
The basic premise is simple. People have a right to expect to meet in an OU forum regarding OU matters and not be continuously subjected to negative harassment which is exactly what this is. Our right to peaceful assembly and interest in OU activities is greater then any one persons right to free expression.
What's the difference between harassment and skepticism? I'm sure lots of people here will consider skepticism and harassment the same exact thing, even if the skepticism in spoken in a polite manner.
Quote
if you can't get with the program, you should be banned. Simple enough. Do this once or twice or three times and the rest of those members will get the message loud and clear and eventually leave on their own or act accordingly.
What is "the program"? I would love to see an OU/FE research forum that was more science based.
One of the problems with a forum such as this is that many ideas are regurgitated ad nauseam even though they have been disproved time and time again.
Any writer who is simply pointing this out and gives valid scientific reasons why such a device cannot work immediately gets accused of harassment and negativity.
Banning such people is a disservice to the FE movement and will turn it into a religion instead of a forum that genuinely tries to find ways to generate clean and abundant energy. But then again this is probably just what some people here want.
Hans von Lieven
@Hans
You're just the man I was hoping would land on this thread.
I think we are all adults enough to know what is the difference. It is the continuous and incessant barrage of skepticism that is the problem.
Yes I am an avid Ouer but I still have my fair share of skepticism like anyone else, but we are here for another reason. OU research, building, testing, reporting, etc.
I have had my fair share of explaining why something will not work while also explaining how something would be more plausible. If you analyze the total organized, persistent and highly aggressive onslaught around Mylow in the initial stages of his disclosure, then you listen to him speak on his Video 17 and 19, this was one pissed off cookie.
But please explain to our folks here why we banned @Humbugger on a scale from 1 to 10. Where was he and where have we come to today.
Guys come in as say, it won,t work because it's "impossible". Just great. We accept this and we are finished as a cohesive forum on OU.
Humbugger was not banned because he correctly pointed out errors in someone's thinking or in the theories proposed.
Humbugger was banned because of his incessant ad hominem attacks and calling people names and such. Such behaviour correctly should be discouraged, I have no problem with this.
Hans von Lieven
Seriously, who did a greater disservice to the FE/OU community, the skeptics or Mylow himself? And if Mylow really delivered the goods and allowed for independent verification and there were some replications that were also verified on what basis would the skeptics then have except to become cynics? I think turning OU.com into a mutual admiration society is a form of inbreeding.
Certain things are "more impossible" than others.
If you waste your time, money, and creative juices on something that is actually impossible, like extracting perpetual energy from a closed-loop permanent magnet system, you are actually suppressing yourself--because you are just spinning your wheels and will get nowhere, and all the time and effort you spend is wasted, when it could be going into something useful and with real promise.
In addition, even if you are working on something with slightly less "impossibility", if you allow yourself to fool yourself with anecdotal and biased results from poorly conceived and performed "experiments" you are also suppressing yourself and will likely not make progress.
I'm sorry if Mylow's feelings were hurt by our criticisms, during the time that he was lying to us through his teeth. I'd like to offer him my condolences...in person.
I think the difference is in the content, and the obviousness of intent.
There is frankly little viable reason for anyone to make over 100 posts on a single thread, maybe 30 or so of those saying essentially the same things over and over. It is then obvious that the intent is not just sharing ideas, but pushing an agenda. Now people push agendas for differing reasons; however it comes to a point where such behavior deserves questioning; when it goes way beyond what any individual would consider doing in defense of their ideals.
Most peeps who post a lot understand a basic tenet: Repeating things endlessly is actually detrimental, not helpful to your "cause". It speaks of agenda, and what agendas would certain subjects have? Moreover, it is very disruptive to constructive discussion, and imo, is usually meant to END such discussion; because it comes across as an implied gangland-style threat to many peeps: If you dare post your differing opinions against us, we will "jump" on you. Lots of people just don't want the hassle of a pissing match with some jerk spewing ad hominem venom, so they don't bother posting.
THAT IS WRONG and a danger for the health of any forum.
I am quite sure Hans holds his principals and opinions honestly. The difference with his posts verses others is, he usually has DATA to offer besides just opinion. He usually has SOMETHING TO SAY of value, even if we don't agree.
This is an important criteria, and one that is often lacking with others who claim to be "skeptics", but are really just there to disrupt and attack anything they can get away with... And to shape the "discussion" (or lack of it lol) in certain directions that fit their hidden agendas.
damm my cover is blown,
I am ready to confess I am a full blown MIB sent here to harrass the real inventors like Steorn, Mylow, Perendev, etc etc. I am jumping camps.
Lets hunt down these skeptics and Naysayers, burn them at the stake and why we at it...stop schools teaching science...especially evolution. Its all part of the New World Order.
This is such a good feeling comming clean
Mark
(former MIB)
Quote from: TinselKoala on May 26, 2009, 04:12:11 PM
Certain things are "more impossible" than others.
If you waste your time, money, and creative juices on something that is actually impossible, like extracting perpetual energy from a closed-loop permanent magnet system, you are actually suppressing yourself--because you are just spinning your wheels and will get nowhere, and all the time and effort you spend is wasted, when it could be going into something useful and with real promise.
In addition, even if you are working on something with slightly less "impossibility", if you allow yourself to fool yourself with anecdotal and biased results from poorly conceived and performed "experiments" you are also suppressing yourself and will likely not make progress.
This is very true!! And it boggles my mind that so many "True" FE believers and researchers spend so much time theorizing on Gravity wheels and Magnet motors, and the "very anti-physics devices" .... When things like LENR (cold fusion) are pretty much proven to exist now... But NOBODY is interested in this stuff... Why??? Wake up! This is the real Free Energy!
I believe in cold fusion. I have read quite a bit on it. But its a little too technical for the average person to work on. Whats wrong with letting people discover things for themselves? They might hit on something that was missed by others. By too much negativity, you discourage new people from getting into this field of research. I suspect that this is what some people want and to get others discouraged enough to give up on what they are working on. Just click on some of the names and then show posts. You can see who I'm talking about. All negativity and no real interest in helping. It's pretty obvious.
Quote from: the badger on May 26, 2009, 05:52:35 PM
I believe in cold fusion.
You don't have to "believe" it is pretty much proven at this point.
QuoteBut its a little too technical for the average person to work on.
It's not as technical as you might think... Loading electrodes with deuterium, Making heavy water... I don't think it's really that tuff (I'm not an expert though) .. But you might get the real MIB on your case though. :o
Quote
Whats wrong with letting people discover things for themselves?
Nothing at all. .. if they enjoy tinkering with something that isn't likely to produce work.
QuoteThey might hit on something that was missed by others.
The key word here is "might". But you might as well replace that with a 1/1000000000 chance... My point is ... Why even bother taking the hardest route to your FE goal? There is enough evidence to show that LENR/CF is a real phenomena, and enough real evidence to show that it's 10000000000x more likely to exist than perpetual magnet and gravity motors.
QuoteBy too much negativity, you discourage new people from getting into this field of research.
I don't want to discourage people from working on FE devices... I just want to see a more realistic and educated approach.
It's one thing to *say* something is impossible
based on generalities. It's another thing to think
about a particular case process and "prove" that
it's impossible. I'll never accept the first and that
is what MIB's are about. But it gets pretty dicey
to continue applying time and effort after the
second. Because that means you can never really
debug a mechanical process. I can now pretty
much prove that a Mylow, Steorn demo, Howard
Johnson and external model Perendev motor cannot
work and I'll will be sick when someone proposes
the next one and wastes a bunch of peoples time
effort and money again. Yeah, and it's really weird
that all these people are discussing things about
an impossible set up right next store to someone
like Butch LaForge post, where the machine has at
least has a snowball's chance in hates of actually
working, and then he gets few comments. It's
a weird world I guess.
Reality is complex though and you just may get a
thermodynamics augmented machine, a magnetic module
or a fishing line machine to work. They are just going
to need to prove it themselves first and skip the
Mylow like atmospherics and polemics, You have
got to understand that nontechnical people think
in terms of Group Approval Ratings rather then
determining the long term scientific technical
truth. So they are really difficult to trust especially
in an instance like Mylow's
:S:MarkSCoffman
Quote from: jibbguy on May 26, 2009, 02:01:11 PM
The shills are given their next "projects" (sometimes as a team), given info on how to mask their MAC numbers and change I.P.'s, and sent a URL for a forum to go to, and of course the specific "message" they are supposed to disseminate and push there.
Proof that this is drivel: you do not need to "mask" MAC addresses (not "numbers"). MAC addresses are at the second layer of the OSI model. They are not routed beyond your local LAN.
Whilst I think cold fusion is a good technology to develop it is barely within reach for most of us to pursue because of the cost and difficulty to get the right materials.
The purchase of Deuterium for instance will immediately put you on a watched list and advertise your activity to precisely the kind of people you don't want to know. Add to that the cost of Palladium or Platinum and you can see why few undertake that kind of research privately.
Nevertheless it is a fascinating area of research.
Hans von Lieven
Quote from: hansvonlieven on May 26, 2009, 06:46:20 PM
Whilst I think cold fusion is a good technology to develop it is barely within reach for most of us to pursue because of the cost and difficulty to get the right materials.
Disinfo! People can experiment with coldfusion at a relatively low cost... Do some research. From what I can tell the most expensive part would preparing the plates.
Quote
The purchase of Deuterium for instance will immediately put you on a watched list and advertise your activity to precisely the kind of people you don't want to know.
Maybe ... Show me some proof that you'll be put on a watch list.... Your statement is a fear tactic.
Quote
Add to that the cost of Palladium or Platinum and you can see why few undertake that kind of research privately.
You can use electroplating.. And nickel is supposed to work as well.
No, plated electrodes do not work. You need solid metal. Nickel I don't know, though I cannot see how that would work since you need the catalytic reaction between a platinum group metal and Hydrogen.
I don't know where you live but here in Australia Deuterium is on a watched chemicals list together with toxins and drug precursers.
Hans von Lieven
Quote from: hansvonlieven on May 26, 2009, 07:04:56 PM
No, plated electrodes do not work. You need solid metal. Nickel I don't know, though I cannot see how that would work since you need the catalytic reaction between a platinum group metal and Hydrogen.
I've read that 10nm thick Pd particles will produce 20-90 percent excess heat (aka FE).. So why wouldn't Pd electroplated electrodes?
Quote
I don't know where you live but here in Australia Deuterium is on a watched chemicals list together with toxins and drug precursers.
Really? I figured this might be true at first... But.. I've searched all over the web and I can't a single reference, for your country or mine.. Do you have a link?
Here's a good site: http://www.fusor.net/
Quote from: newbie123 on May 26, 2009, 07:21:56 PM
I've read that 10nm thick Pd particles will produce 20-90 percent excess heat.. So why wouldn't Pd electroplated electrodes?
From what I have read part of the Palladium actually gets consumed in the process. The plating will disappear quite quickly and the base metal comes into contact with the deuterium.
QuoteReally? I figured this might be true at first... But.. I've searched all over the web and I can't a single reference, for your country or mine.. Do you have a link?
Other than what my mates at the chemical supply company tell me, and the fact that they want to see photo ID before they will supply you, none. You will find it equally difficult to get a list of watched chemicals in relation to illegal drug manufacture. They just don't advertise these things openly.
Hans von Lieven
Quote from: hansvonlieven on May 26, 2009, 07:32:13 PM
From what I have read part of the Palladium actually gets consumed in the process.
Do you have a reference for this?
QuoteMizuno describes few moments of epiphany. There are moments of excitement, but most of the triumphs are long expected, and a good result does not mean much until you make it happen again, and again after that. There are few revelations. The scientists do not suddenly grasp the answer. They gradually narrow down a set of possibilities. Often the same possibilities are examined, discounted, and then reconsidered years later. Recently, Mizuno, Bockris and others have increasingly focused on so-called “host metal transmutations,†that is, nuclear reactions of the cathode metal itself. The cathode metal was inexplicably neglected for many years. The term “host metal†is misleading. It was an unfortunate choice of words. It implies that the metal acts as a passive structure, holding the hydrogen in place, cramming the deuterons or protons together. The metal is a host, not a participant. The hydrogen does the work. Now, it appears the metal itself is as active as the hydrogen. The metal apparently fissions and fusions in complex reactions. Now the task is to think about the metal, and not just the hydrogen. Theory must explain how palladium can turn part of itself into copper and other elements with peculiar isotopes.
Source: http://www.world-mysteries.com/sci_coldfusion.htm (http://www.world-mysteries.com/sci_coldfusion.htm)
Quote from: hansvonlieven on May 26, 2009, 09:42:58 PM
Source: http://www.world-mysteries.com/sci_coldfusion.htm (http://www.world-mysteries.com/sci_coldfusion.htm)
I'd call fusing into other elements (or transmuting) rather than consuming.. But I'd be happing with that result anyway.. And the Pd would probably take a long time to completely transmute into other elements.
Yes, perhaps transmuting is a better term but that means plated electrodes are out and that was my point.
Hans von Lieven
Quote from: hansvonlieven on May 26, 2009, 11:07:10 PM
Yes, perhaps transmuting is a better term but that means plated electrodes are out and that was my point.
Hans von Lieven
Hans,
Thin Pd sheets are used as well.. So I wouldn't just to the conclusion that plating is out of the question.. Anyway..
Back to my original point and the topic. Magnet motors and Gravity wheels are an absolute waste of time... And CF/LENR is where the "FE" is at.
If the MIBs really exist... I bet they love the fact you guys are playing with magnets and wheels... And they probably love the folks who encourage this type of experimentation even more, IMHO...
debunk this ....
DISPROVE MY WORK!!
YOU CANT DO IT ....
IST...
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=7498.0
Quote from: innovation_station on May 27, 2009, 01:17:49 AM
debunk this ....
DISPROVE MY WORK!!
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=7498.0
What is your work? All I see is a bunch of jibberish.
Quote from: newbie123 on May 27, 2009, 09:36:33 AM
What is your work? All I see is a bunch of jibberish.
is that soo ...
lol
beleave me its not for you !!
ist
if you dont see it it aint 4 u
:P
BTW THE WHOLE WORLD ALREADY KNOWS WHO DID IT !! LOL
SLEEPLY R U ?
RELVOTIONARY ROAD ....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BmiRx_WdpZg&feature=channel
WHAT PATH YOU WALKING ? ... ;)
SEE YOU AGIN WHEN YOU FIND MY PATH ...
Quote from: innovation_station on May 27, 2009, 09:45:03 AM
is that soo ...
lol
beleave me its not for you !!
ist
if you dont see it it aint 4 u
:P
BTW THE WHOLE WORLD ALREADY KNOWS WHO DID IT !! LOL
SLEEPLY R U ?
RELVOTIONARY ROAD ....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BmiRx_WdpZg&feature=channel
WHAT PATH YOU WALKING ? ... ;)
SEE YOU AGIN WHEN YOU FIND MY PATH ...
No offense, but have you cracked your lid?
You are talking absolute nonsense here, even if English isn't your first language.... To debunk something, you need to have either instructions to build and test a device or a theory on how a device might work.. Show me one of those.
GO READ MY 3000 POSTS
:P
THERE YOU WILL FIND ALL YOU SERCH!
IST!
Quote from: newbie123 on May 27, 2009, 10:13:50 AM
Rofl..
I SEE YOU FAIL !!
YOU FAIL TO COMPREHEND THE TRUTH LOL LOL
CANT YOU READ MY SIG ....
HUMMM..... IF YOU CANT READ IT YOU WILL NOT COMPREHEND IT !!
DO YOU HEAR ME WINEING FOR FREE ENGERY ....
NO SIR....... YOU DO NOT !!
LOL
IST
I WAS A .... I AM A LEFTY!!! ;)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EsUM7V6Ku_8
IM NOT FROM THIS PLACE SOME SAY I DROPED FROM OUTTER SPACE JUST ANOTHER LEFT-HAND CASE ... TOSSED AMOUNG THIS PLACE TO DO MY JOB AND HELP ENLIGHTEN THIS HUMAN RACE .. TO WAKE THEM UP AT A SLOW SNAILS PACE I GOTTA SLOW MY SELF DOWN TO FIT IN IN THIS STRANGE PLACE ... BUT I AINT NO FACE IN THE CROUD IM THE ONE ON THE MIC SHOUTTING IT LOULD AND HOLDING IN MY HAND MY INVENTIONS PROUD
IST SHOUTING LOULD!
Ist, Sorry to say this.... I know you mean well, but it's people like you that give FE research and development a bad name..
I'm putting you on my ignore list now.. Bye.
Newbie123,
Don't put him on your ignore list. I really think you should read his 3000+ posts. They are hilarious! He's wound more coils than G.E. but has never put any power on most of them. It is hard for anyone to prove him wrong since he never shows any drawings or info to replicate. But he still is funny to listen to.
Quote from: MrMag on May 27, 2009, 11:38:32 AM
Newbie123,
Don't put him on your ignore list. I really think you should read his 3000+ posts. They are hilarious! He's wound more coils than G.E. but has never put any power on most of them. It is hard for anyone to prove him wrong since he never shows any drawings or info to replicate. But he still is funny to listen to.
MrMag,
I can only take so much of that jibber-jive....
And clearly he has some mental issues...
@IST
Just don't answer to these guys because they won't be here for long. lol
The hammer will fall very soon my friends.
wattsup,
The biggest problem I have with IST is that what he thinks he know is far from what he actually does know. If you try to tell him something or question him he just tells you that you don't understand or are not ready for it. He is a joke! The newbies (not 123) that come to this site look at his post and think that he must be smart because he has over 3000 posts. 2800 of them are jibberish crap and the other 200 are music videos. Talk about disinformation!
oh yeah, one more thing. If Stephan wants to warn me about the posts, that is fine. All I am doing is telling the truth.
If you don't believe me, in IST's words, prove me wrong.
Quote from: wattsup on May 27, 2009, 11:57:57 AM
@IST
Just don't answer to these guys because they won't be here for long. lol
The hammer will fall very soon my friends.
Wattsup, Do you honestly support this type of mentality???
OK LITTLE BOYS ...
PUT UP OR SHUT UP ... LOL
SHOW ME YOUR OBRIT EATHER SPINNERS ... LOL
YEA I THOUGHT SO ...
LOL
LETS HEAR YOUR THERY ON ORBIT ...
WAIT A MIN ... YOU CAN NOT GRASP THE SIMPLE KICK ... LOL
LET ALONE ORBIT ...
TRY ME !!
IST!
YOU GONNA FLY?? OR YOU GONNA TURTLE N DIE!!
Quote from: innovation_station on May 27, 2009, 12:49:01 PM
OK LITTLE BOYS ...
PUT UP OR SHUT UP ... LOL
SHOW ME YOUR OBRIT EATHER SPINNERS ... LOL
YEA I THOUGHT SO ...
LOL
LETS HEAR YOUR THERY ON ORBIT ...
WAIT A MIN ... YOU CAN NOT GRASP THE SIMPLE KICK ... LOL
LET ALONE ORBIT ...
TRY ME !!
IST!
YOU GONNA FLY?? OR YOU GONNA TURTLE N DIE!!
Yeah, your the man. You don't even know what your talking about. How should we. I rest my case.
Quote from: wattsup on May 27, 2009, 11:57:57 AM
@IST
Just don't answer to these guys because they won't be here for long. lol
The hammer will fall very soon my friends.
Wattsup, you can't be serious!
Having been involved with some of the research at the Innovation Station I will have to say that you cannot prove IST wrong and here is the scientific formula to back that statement.
YOU CAN ARGUE THE TRUTH BUT YOU WILL BE WRONG.
What else you wanna know?
I already got !ST CONTACTED
Although I say the same thing...One chart would be nice, but all those charged batteries are better lol.
Peace Love and Respect to you all...especially the MIB type cuz u need it the most. Time to Heal the Planet. I post this because William is my friend and I am Able to Love ;D 8) :D ;)
JT,
I must agree with the statement that we cannot prove him wrong since he hasn't actually proved anything yet???
You must have come down on the same ship. ;D ;D ;D ;D
Quote from: Tink on May 27, 2009, 01:10:02 PM
Wattsup, you can't be serious!
Yes, he is serious. Should have happened months ago IMO.
You are talking about the future of overunity.com here, nothing less.
(applauds Wattsup)
AZ
Quote from: innovation_station on May 27, 2009, 12:49:01 PM
OK LITTLE BOYS ...
PUT UP OR SHUT UP ... LOL
SHOW ME YOUR OBRIT EATHER SPINNERS ... LOL
YEA I THOUGHT SO ...
LOL
LETS HEAR YOUR THERY ON ORBIT ...
WAIT A MIN ... YOU CAN NOT GRASP THE SIMPLE KICK ... LOL
LET ALONE ORBIT ...
TRY ME !!
IST!
YOU GONNA FLY?? OR YOU GONNA TURTLE N DIE!!
I'll put up, just give me some time to study your posts, dammit.
And stop screaming... 8)
AZ
Wattsup,
So is that what OU.com should be about? Encouraging ignorance and tolerating absolute insanity?
AZ,
Let me know if you actually find some useful info!
QuoteSo is that what OU.com should be about? Encouraging ignorance and tolerating absolute insanity?
LOL good one.
Uh....hello....It seems OU forum's collective specialty is employing circular logic to embark on demonstrable detours. The fact that so many here, wasted so much vis a vis the "mylowvian stonehenge"....
Says it all. In spades.
The movement, such as it is, at least as discussed publicly here at OU forum....
Is a veritable cornucopia of dystopia.
:-[
@newbie123
One thing that is very obvious and that is the answers will never come from you.
Before you come to a public forum like this, Mr. newbie123, maybe you should consider some preliminary potty training. It's kind of embarrassing for the others here to see you slop all over yourself so gleefully.
If you had just 1% of @IST's gut and crud, you would not be saying what you are saying because you would know where he is coming from. But I guess you are too rational for the OUers here. Tell me, do you now what he held in his hand in his photo. No. Did not bother to even ask with some level of "niceness".
Nahhhhhhh. Because you're just another Prick in the Wall.
Quote from: wattsup on May 27, 2009, 08:13:33 PM
@newbie123
One thing that is very obvious and that is the answers will never come from you.
Before you come to a public forum like this, Mr. newbie123, maybe you should consider some preliminary potty training. It's kind of embarrassing for the others here to see you slop all over yourself so gleefully.
If you had just 1% of @IST's gut and crud, you would not be saying what you are saying because you would know where he is coming from. But I guess you are too rational for the OUers here. Tell me, do you now what he held in his hand in his photo. No. Did not bother to even ask with some level of "niceness".
Nahhhhhhh. Because you're just another Prick in the Wall.
Easy there Wattsup.
I really think you have two groups of people here. The ones that follow IST and us. I feel that any person with a technical background and some knowledge of electronics can see right through him. As I said before, as soon as you question him about anything he says you don't understand or it is over your head. Why doesn't he just explain and answer the questions? I think it is because he doesn't know himself. If a person doesn't know, that's fine just say it, not one of us here know everything. Well, I think most of us would admit it. But to come out and say I know but you won't understand, is another story. If we were the only ones on this forum then I would care less what IST blabs about. Everyone would know better.
Now, for the people with little or no technical or electronic background. These are the people who are looking for some direction or explanations. These are the people I like since there knowledge is limited in some aspects but it does give, at least to me, a fresh look or another angle to the problem. But also, it is these people who could be sidetracked or misinformed by people like IST. IMHO, he is not really helping here.
What is he holding in his hand. It must be an IST something or other. To me it looks like a large joule thief.
As per IST history,
Does he know what it will do - yes
Does he know how to input the signals - yes
Does he know how to capture the output - yes
Does he know how to close the loop - yes
Will we ever see a schematic - no
Will we ever see I/O readings - no
Will he ever actually complete this - no
Quote from: wattsup on May 27, 2009, 11:57:57 AM
@IST
Just don't answer to these guys because they won't be here for long. lol
The hammer will fall very soon my friends.
You are the MIB disinfo agent wattsup. You do not want the the truth you just want your own version. We can not help that you get your panties all bunched when someone with a better grasp on things try to explain the physics of a moving part. Sure lets kick everybody that does not agree with you. All that will be left will be the mylow lovers, and in five years all of you mylow lovers will still be playing with the same configuration of magnets wondering, why won't it work. I saw it work on you tube. By the way. When I was in seventh grade I made this same motor for our science fair. It did not work back then either. I do not have any pictures, but you can ask my old science teacher. I think her name was MRS. JOHNSON :-\ :-[ :'( :D ;D
HEARS YOUR REALITY ....
IM BACK ... HOWS THAT FOR PROOF...
;)
IST! 8)
YES I HAVE PLAYED THIS CARD B4 ... HENCE WHY IT COMES SOOOOOOO EASLY 4 ME .....
DUH!
ill remind you now i reverse engineered a tpu ... i did not have a scope at that time...
and to this day i still dont have the skills to use 1 properly ... so what ... did your scope make you comprhend .. no ...
nor did your tools or your money lol
it is in my mind and for a reason too ..... ;)
ask yourself what that reason is..
perhaps i was expected to show up ... :)
whats g anyways .... :D lol ;)
Mylow fooled lots of people... Including me to a certain extent, I'll admit it.. But I was going to remain skeptical until I saw a working replication... And even if it did really work on some new science principle, the chances that it would "drain the magnetism" out of the magnets (which would also be brand new science, afaik) are far greater than it being a perpetual device.
I've noticed lots of people will buy these stories, pranks, conspiracies, riddles, or whatever, from people who have absolutely nothing to show (i.e. detailed replication instructions). Heck, some will even stand up for IST who is either a 9 year old prankster, or just nutty as a fruitcake...
But with all the time, effort and creativity people spend on off the wall concepts.... Some could probably really accomplish something, whether it be LENR, an ICE/Steam engine hybrid, wind energy improvements, or whatever.. But, It just doesn't make any sense to take least likely route to renewable energy (or FE) If this is your goal.
Quote from: wattsup on May 27, 2009, 08:13:33 PM
@newbie123
One thing that is very obvious and that is the answers will never come from you.
Before you come to a public forum like this, Mr. newbie123, maybe you should consider some preliminary potty training. It's kind of embarrassing for the others here to see you slop all over yourself so gleefully.
If you had just 1% of @IST's gut and crud, you would not be saying what you are saying because you would know where he is coming from. But I guess you are too rational for the OUers here. . No. Did not bother to even ask with some level of "niceness".
Nahhhhhhh. Because you're just another Prick in the Wall.
I actually expected a more mature response from you, Wattsup... I might not have the exact "answers", but I am trying to help.
What are you talking about here: "Tell me, do you now what he held in his hand in his photo" ?
Being fooled is a given in this stuff. staying fooled is the problem with this stuff.
The first is the willingness to question, the second is the unwillingness to observe, and think. (along with the unwillingness to say: you got me man and move on.)
Quote from: newbie123 on May 28, 2009, 03:19:06 AM
Mylow fooled lots of people... Including me to a certain extent, I'll admit it.. But I was going to remain skeptical until I saw a working replication... And even if it did really work on some new science principle, the chances that it would "drain the magnetism" out of the magnets (which would also be brand new science, afaik) are far greater than it being a perpetual device.
I've noticed lots of people will buy these stories, pranks, conspiracies, riddles, or whatever, from people who have absolutely nothing to show (i.e. detailed replication instructions). Heck, some will even stand up for IST who is either a 9 year old prankster, or just nutty as a fruitcake...
But with all the time, effort and creativity people spend on off the wall concepts.... Some could probably really accomplish something, whether it be LENR, an ICE/Steam engine hybrid, wind energy improvements, or whatever.. But, It just doesn't make any sense to take least likely route to renewable energy (or FE) If this is your goal.
QuoteThe first is the willingness to question, the second is the unwillingness to observe, and think.
Good point. And by those simple criterion, OU dot com has proven itself fit for.....what?
Devoting weeks to the mylowvian debacle proves that most would rather furiously flit about the harsh flame of the feeble human intellect, than climb out of their collective pool of mental magma, onto a fire proof catamaran of genuine camaraderie and on to the shores of higher reason.
OU dot com has been a case study in how to prolong a truly dystopian, dysfunctional social status quo.
A good clothes pin (for the nose), some industrial strength lip balm, and a quality pair of rose colored glasses, can go a long way in one's concentric quest to keep kissing the asses of the misaligned masses.
There are many more important things one should be doing at this late hour than simply treading water in choppy seas.
This collective quest for "Free Energy", such as it is, serves most adequately at this time, as a distraction....from much more pressing matters.
TPTB are surely satisfied that many of you are wasting your efforts here, rather than helping your fellow men via one or more of a myriad direct methods which have proven, are proving and will prove, much more valuable as daylight wanes.
God bless,
TS
A good way to spot MIB Disinformation Agents is to look for people who keep quoting the Bible in a technical forum.
Hans von Lieven
Quote from: hansvonlieven on May 28, 2009, 08:16:46 PM
A good way to spot MIB Disinformation Agents is to look for people who keep quoting the Bible in a technical forum.
Hans von Lieven
Yes! Because all disinformation agents are very religious!
Quote
A good way to spot MIB Disinformation Agents is to look for people who keep quoting the Bible in a technical forum.
Sure beats quoting the satanic bible as many of our "fearless" leaders (both hidden & public) do....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XBjOs-egFMs
http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=1B9F8E1F1B76E508&search_query=hollywood%27s+war
http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2004/09/297062.shtml
And, "technically speaking", facts are facts.....many of which speak volumes for themselves.
Despite the cowardly machinations of Truth's enemies, inside these forums and out.
Yahweh bless your heart in Yeshua, Jesus Christ, regardless of your mockery.....Mr. Von lieven
TS
Quote from: hansvonlieven on May 28, 2009, 08:16:46 PM
A good way to spot MIB Disinformation Agents is to look for people who keep quoting the Bible in a technical forum.
Hans von Lieven
Hans,
Do you understand that by saying crap like this, it makes you a real "disinfo agent" ? Unless of course you have real proof of your statement. (and don't give me some conspiracy theory BS story from youtube)
Like I said in my first post..
Why would the government need to pay "disinfo" agents when you guys do it for free all the time?
Also, I'm not saying technology suppression has never existed... CEOs, Saudis, etc, can be just as gullible as the general public.
Informal entropy is a quite usual thing in Science.
Most of the scientists suffer from autism and lack of communication.
This is why I believe that the suspicious elements can be identified by the lack of entropy.
A sporadic decrease of the noise floor is a good sign for non-relativistic communication.
This is why I think that the "believers" take an active part in the suppression of OU without realizing that.
In general - people who write the same thing again and again without reading other posts are highly suspicious as MIB. Somebody has to pay you for beeing so boring.
In the end, disinformation, permutation and transmutation of knowledge can play an important and positive role in science.
Quote from: fritz on May 29, 2009, 06:22:46 PM
In general - people who write the same thing again and again without reading other posts are highly suspicious as MIB. Somebody has to pay you for beeing so boring.
I'm asking a legitimate question... I can show you lots of posts with misinformation, and prove that it is really misinformation/disinformation.
The truth is sometimes boring... Maybe this is why some here like to speculate about pseudoscience so often... But spreading pseudoscience as the truth is just wrong.
Quote
In the end, disinformation, permutation and transmutation of knowledge can play an important and positive role in science.
Really? Can you give me a real example of disinformation playing an important role in science?
You might say the Bohr model of the hydrogen atom v.s. the Schrodinger model .. But there were lots of things accurate in the Bohr model.
Well said, Newbie!
Please allow me a re-quote:
Quotepeople who write the same thing again and again without reading other posts are highly suspicious as MIB
Having experienced my share of "MIB", I'd say it would be much more accurate to suspect such writers as dumbed down, mind controlled minions of the MIB and their ilk....as they are always looking for patsies.
"Teach a man to think that he's thinking and he will love you. But make him really think, and he may hate you."
Civil debate of belief and observable fact alike, is one thing. Juvenile, ad hominem retorts of shallow substance are another....and denote a lack of self control usually found in adolescents.
"In the end", many a negative, crafty, underhanded, or slothful effort will prove to have produced positive results.....which in no way implies that those who enacted such efforts are worthy of positive reward. It just goes to show that God is Perfectly qualified to "use the users", as it were.
http://www.hisremnant.org/eby/articles/kingdom/twohands/twohandsof.html
Blessings,
TS
Welcome chrisC to the MIB disinfo list. I clicked on your name and read your previous posts back about 20 pages and all I could find is pure negativity. Not one single post has shown any positive feedback or any actual experimenting on your own. Your cover is officially blown. ;D
Quote from: newbie123 on May 29, 2009, 06:40:09 PM
I'm asking a legitimate question... I can show you lots of posts with misinformation, and prove that it is really misinformation/disinformation.
The truth is sometimes boring... Maybe this is why some here like to speculate about pseudoscience so often... But spreading pseudoscience as the truth is just wrong.
Really? Can you give me a real example of disinformation playing an important role in science?
You might say the Bohr model of the hydrogen atom v.s. the Schrodinger model .. But there were lots of things accurate in the Bohr model.
The question is who gets to define what is science, and what is 'pseudoscience'? Who sets the terms? One man's meat is another man's poison, as they say. With Climategate and the environmental movement, we see clear evidence of a departure from sound scientific principles, and a movement towards something that looks more like religion. You have the 'priests', the 'believers', and the 'heretics'.
It may sound perverse to suggest this, but I think we should actually be grateful for disinformation. It makes you question, think for yourself, do your own research, and decide for yourself what is true. If someone like a paid disinformant is so intent on obfuscating the truth and setting people against each other, that means the truth is a valuable asset that someone will go to great lengths to control - and it means that we should redouble our efforts to find out what it is.
Misinformation - is bad info given without knowing any better.
Disinformation - Is a truth sandwich (truth-lie-truth)
So all I have to do to get accused of being a MIB is:
1. Deny being a MIB. (done in account name)
2. Quote some scripture from the One True Faith.
http://www.subgenius.com/bigfist/classic/classics/Prescriptures.html
3. Post a crackpot theory with no experimental evidence to support it.
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=2485.0
(pulls out neuralizer, sets knobs)
Now look at this little red light. There's no such thing as space aliens, men in black, free energy, and antigravity. Y'all buy lotsa Texas natural gas, you hear!
(presses button, light flashes, this entire thread vanishes from the forum and its members' memories, and natural gas prices spike the next day)
Quote from: TechStuf on May 28, 2009, 05:26:21 PM
Devoting weeks to the mylowvian debacle proves that most would rather furiously flit about the harsh flame of the feeble human intellect, than climb out of their collective pool of mental magma, onto a fire proof catamaran of genuine camaraderie and on to the shores of higher reason.
Golly TechStuf. That's some complex imagery there. Blown away quite frankly.
Quote from: TechStuf on May 28, 2009, 05:26:21 PM
OU dot com has been a case study in how to prolong a truly dystopian, dysfunctional social status quo.
Not sure that this is fair comment.
Quote from: TechStuf on May 28, 2009, 05:26:21 PM
A good clothes pin (for the nose), some industrial strength lip balm, and a quality pair of rose colored glasses, can go a long way in one's concentric quest to keep kissing the asses of the misaligned masses.
And more of the same. Definitely a poet - but no romance. More's the pity
My own take is that we're all confronting a 'final frontier' here and considering the ugly mess that has resulted from our energy uses - and our strident and pressing needs for more and more - then any attention given to this 'frontier' is time well spent. Quite apart from which the subject is just so interesting. No wonder everyone obsesses.
Belief has no part of science and, energy is all about science. At the moment I think these forums' growing interest and readership is based on a new challenge. Unless mainstream science confront the 'claims' to free energy - then they are actually losing their authority. If they continue to block their ears and close their eyes then they're as much 'non-believers' as they claim we are 'believers'. And neither attitude has anything whatsoever to do with science based on experimental evidence. Belief just does not factor in. Anywhere.
Regarding the MIB's which is the topic here - I'm entirely satisfied that they are around - well financed - and, thank God, becoming less and less effective. But it's a sad truth that their job is very often accomplished by 'believers' in Free Energy. These believers are very often embarrassingly uncritical of their own or anyone's work.
Hello Loner
Your points are well argued. I agree that those frontiers have been breached. But didn't want to enter a new topic. And regarding exploitation - it's devinely providential that this has been explored by open source. It's positively prevented any ownership claims - which, historically, is a kind of first. It's absurd that anyone should try and patent ways of extracting energy. It's like trying to patent nature. Golly.
And I also agree that we're in for a rough time of it. Plentiful energy and suddenly the infrastructures of our city life is less required. What happens then? Do we sysematically unravel those concrete monstrosities and, simultaneously move into pristine rural areas and pullute them? There are huge problems ahead. But to me the good news is that there's a new world out there to explore. And - with luck - it wont be exclusively in the hands of an equally exclusive few - to call the tune - so to speak. I'm an incurable optimist.
Regarding our MIB's. They're a dying minority and their value is being diminished by the simple fact that 'truth will out'.
It is interesting, that i have met and conversed with folks who honestly believe on one hand that very powerful weapons like HAARP do exist as it is often portrayed (...being able to steer hurricanes, cause earthquakes, etc).. And yet these same folks simultaneously argue against the Disclosure of free energy (there are a few popular "UFO" speakers and writers who do this for some reason).
The problem i have with this illogical dichotomy is this: If "evil" people are using this stuff already, there is no plausible reason to keep the GOOD uses of it from us.
We have seen simple every-day stuff like fertilizers being used for extremely powerful truck bombs. We have the knowledge that bio-weapons and chemical weapons proliferated into dangerous hands BY THE TON from when the Soviet Union disintegrated, and their WMD scientists often went to work for other countries.
We even have evidence that US politicians, including the former Speaker of the House, illegally SOLD NUCLEAR WEAPON SECRETS to the Islamic states of Turkey and Pakistan (the "Sibel Edmonds" testimonies.. if you hadn't heard that; Google it... it is the most suppressed major story of the last 10 or so years).
In other words, there are already THOUSANDS of ways for those determined to kill others to do so with so-called "Conventional" or existing means that are available to those who want them. The proliferation of them is at all time highs.
What would it matter if a truck bomb had a "Meyer hydroxy" or "Johnson magnet" motor to run it?? Do we really care if a terrorist doesn't have to stop at gas stations for fuel on his way to Washington DC, lol ?? Is that worth keeping the rest of world in perpetual misery, worth the destruction of the ecology from never-ending pollution?
So why should the other 99.999% of the world's population be denied the incredibly good benefits that would come from these technologies being released (and NOT ALL OF THEM "DANGEROUS" ANYWAY)...? With the promises for ending Hunger, providing cheap energy for billions now denied any access energy.. So they can grow a middle class, start businesses, become educated and vastly more prosperous (..which has been proved over and over to be the BEST method of lowering population growth), and to grow huge new markets for the "industrialized world" to benefit from as well. And we in North America and Europe will also greatly benefit from the huge boon in manufacturing that will be seen when all of a sudden, the trans-national corps that have moved all of our good manufacturing jobs overseas finally have HONEST free market competition from small businesses that can now compete on a level playing field using cheap energy... Ending "Wall Street's" crooked speculation games and strangle-hold on our economy, and allowing the new entrepreneurship of "Main Street" to rule it again... as it should. So why not..?
Greed. Corruption. Desire to hold on to monopolistic power. Control.
These are not "National Security Issues".
They are "corporate and cartel security issues".
And it doesn't even have to be a "great big" conspiracy, just a lot of little ones just like people are convicted of thousands of times each year by our Judges... The results are the same in the end. Do you trust government bureaucrats and Pentagon officials to not be "on the take" from a corporation who wants to hold on to their market share and easy profits forever? How many Generals and Admirals retire, and immediately take positions for over $1 million a year at some big corporation?
Lol, i sure as hell don't trust them to be honest. Statistics and human nature will show that many of them WILL NOT BE.
The people at the Pentagon who hold control over what is allowed through the U.S. Patent Office have NO CONGRESSIONAL OVERSIGHT AT ALL. The are literally a law unto themselves.
This is a sure recipe for corruption.
We can't afford this crap any more.
The Rule of Law needs to be reestablished in this country, and world; before we ALL go down the drain. Changing the present energy paradigm is the way to start that process rolling.
And the method to do this is to remove the biggest and most powerful "weapon of mass destruction" any economy has ever seen in history, from the control of criminals who have proved over and over they cannot be trusted with it:
The monopoly over energy.
utilitarian is an obvious disinfo agent. He never adds anything positive to any threads. Read through all his previous posts if you don't believe me. His own writing speaks for itself.
IF you are a Free Energy researcher then you have to do the one thing that others go by LAWS! throw them away and you will have a better chance at accomplishing a free energy device . I can say with Certainty from a reliable source ,My uncle who has worked with NASA since 1961 and was sworn to secrecy that he told me in private there is free energy devices ,there is Craft from another world , there are elements that are not on the periodic chart or from this world and we are not alone . Now if you take this to heart you can see where i am coming from . Throw Mans laws away and you have a chance , keep them and you will lose . I believe in Mib . i believe they are here and interacting with forum members and also tampering with my mail . It's not paranoia it is a fact . Some day soon , hopefully this year a device may come into the hands of the few who put the el101 book down . And those who say there is no god are fools. else you came from monkeys ? No , you were seeded here by a greater power .
gadget
I would expect you to find more people that are trolling, or have a complete lack of reading ability to be negative, rather than to start the whole conspiracy crap again with MIB agents.