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Solid States Devices => Joule Thief => Topic started by: innovation_station on August 23, 2009, 02:47:08 PM

Title: IST'S JOULE THIEF HEATER UNITS
Post by: innovation_station on August 23, 2009, 02:47:08 PM
 ;D :o :o :o

WELL INSTED OF LIGHT SINCE FALL IS COMEING FAST!!

i give you all YET ANOTHER  gift ....  ;D

peace!

W

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJpyskHMwRs

where is the love   [?]

Lol  =   LOVE OUT LOULD.. ;)


more to follow ..  [!]

Title: Re: IST'S JOULE THIEF HEATER UNITS
Post by: innovation_station on August 23, 2009, 03:20:04 PM
for this unit this is what is needed ... 

1 tv yoke feroite core ...

ill probally use a computer power supply for the source ...  not sure yet ...

its just a bigger jt ... thats it thats all ....  the heater does not care ..  it is a resistive load ...

i have a few heaters i will expairment with ... 

an old ac carbon rod unit from the 20's or the 30's and a few other styles ...

insted of the leds its a heater on the ou put of the coil ...  it still plugs into the wall but it USES MUCH LESS HYDRO ...  ;D ;)

ist! 
Title: Re: IST'S JOULE THIEF HEATER UNITS
Post by: DreamThinkBuild on August 23, 2009, 07:43:40 PM
Hi Innovation Station,

You have to remind me old man winter is coming. :) I currently run a 160 gallon outdoor furnace to heat the house. The biggest consumption of wood occurs on getting the operating temperature up to 170 degrees Fahrenheit(my set minimum); usually takes 3 hours. Once it's going and a good hot coal layer is built up it takes a lot less wood to keep it going. One of my goals is to make it hybrid where I can use an electric start from a bank of solar charged batteries to reduce this startup time. Most electric water heating elements for this size tank though run anywhere between  3000-5000 watts 240vac. Do you think a large Joule thief heater could run anywhere near this at a lower wattage?

I recently built a magnetic eddy current heater, it does work but doesn't seem very efficient. The drive motor usually heats up faster than the copper plating. 122F off the copper plate 145F off the motor. It would be cheaper to encase the motor in a sealed aluminum heat sink and drop it in the tank.  ;D
Title: Re: IST'S JOULE THIEF HEATER UNITS
Post by: jeanna on September 10, 2009, 08:57:19 PM
So,IST,
How much heat and what is producing the heat?
You were getting a lot of heat from the carbon rod.
Carbon is what they did use for lamp filaments, and I think it is a good beginning.

Have you made progress?

I am very interested in heat production and you were getting a lot of heat with your power supply.
After you compare it volt for volt with a 1.2v battery, how much heat would you be getting from one AA?

jeanna
Title: Re: IST'S JOULE THIEF HEATER UNITS
Post by: infringer on September 10, 2009, 09:42:23 PM
I am glad you brought this up I gotta build a solar heater...

But I am interested in this ...

I wonder if we could use the joule thief with a solar cell to power a fan 5v to pipe the air out of the unit into my home with some plastic tubing ... Just a thought...
Title: Re: IST'S JOULE THIEF HEATER UNITS
Post by: jeanna on September 10, 2009, 10:10:31 PM
You could also use convection.

In the 80's around Boston, there was a buzz about a thing called a PAL (not the police athletic league!)
This was a box added to the outside wall of the house that had a 4' x 8' glass/ish panel facing out.
You chose the south side of the house of course, and there were 2 vents that went through the house wall. One on the bottom and one on the top.

The cooler house air was sucked into this when the sun got onto the unit and then the hotter air at the top floated into your house. There was black on the back wall. You opened and closed the vents either by hand or you rigged up a sensor.

I knew someone with this and during the long winters when my heat never turned off, her house was very warm when she returned from work and the heat didn't go on til late at night.

Jesus got a stepper motor to work with a joule thief.
You would not need much more than a 5w computer fan just to move the hot air out. I don't recall if my friend had any fan... but that thing really worked. Boston winters are very cold and her house was always warm in the day and evening from this device.

Things like this never get much press because they are so low tech. After a while people forget about it. But it did work.
My south wall was in the shadow of another house or I would have had one, too.

But IST was making hot heat from a jt type design and these things are supposed to only make cold electricity.
I thought there would be more posts on this by now.

So, Infringer, will you be making one of these?
Title: Re: IST'S JOULE THIEF HEATER UNITS
Post by: DreamThinkBuild on September 11, 2009, 11:24:03 AM
A booster method to the passive solar collector is to put a couple low watt infrared heat lamps in the collector. Then run them off a solar charged battery through an inverter during the day time. Most pet stores sell 50 to 250watt infrared heat lamps.

This shows the basic insides of a infrared heater.
http://gogreensavegreen.tv/infrared-heaters/inside.html

Has a Joule Thief been able to run a infrared heat lamp? Has a 12v Joule Thief been made with more output power?
Title: Re: IST'S JOULE THIEF HEATER UNITS
Post by: jeanna on September 11, 2009, 02:37:25 PM
Hi Dream,
I think it needs a different approach.
I think the direction to come from is perhaps to create eddy currents with the pulses.
If the formula for success can be found there, then we can make hot calrods and cook... or hot iron stix and submerge them to heat water. Then showering water can run through the heated water etc.

I used to work with the 'pap-imi' device. Briefly. Just long enough to get a grasp on the power of pulsing. I also got a chance to peer inside because the owner had to fix it and he let me have a look.

It was a timer switch running a transformer which created a spark.
The spark landed on a very large bolt.
This bolt was attached to a long steel chord which was looped half way, and then it returned to the bolt. It was covered with clear tubing.

This loop created a very powerful pulse that went out in ring form and was purely magnetic. But the magnetic pulse would travel 3 inches either way. If you put it on a part of your body, the mag would heal anything.

OK, the whole steel cord would warm up. I would need to cool it in water every ten minutes.
Now, the frequency of pulses was very low and the voltage was very high... sound familiar?

The recommended frequency went from 2.5hz to 8hz. 8 pulses per second had lower voltage but also went less deep into the flesh and was good for eyes and surface/skin problems.
1pulse per second could make you feel you had just been punched.
The explanation from the physicist inventor was that there was naturally a build up time needed for the strongest voltage/mag pulse.

Anyway, all these things fit together and they are good to describe to this group.

My reason for putting it here now, is that the probe would warm up.

So, can we use this for a purpose?

I think maybe.

jeanna
Title: Re: IST'S JOULE THIEF HEATER UNITS
Post by: mscoffman on September 11, 2009, 03:31:38 PM
Quote from: innovation_station on August 23, 2009, 03:20:04 PM

ill probally use a computer power supply for the source ...  not sure yet ...

ist!

When one uses a spare PC computer power supply one needs
a load, or dummy load on the +12VDC leads or the supply
may not voltage regulate properly. I use an old diskdrive
with no cable as a dummy load. Bedini people don't
load their supplies right, then their projects melt.

:S:MarkCoffman
Title: Re: IST'S JOULE THIEF HEATER UNITS
Post by: DreamThinkBuild on September 13, 2009, 02:48:48 PM
Hi Jeanna,

QuoteI think the direction to come from is perhaps to create eddy currents with the pulses. If the formula for success can be found there, then we can make hot calrods and cook... or hot iron stix and submerge them to heat water. Then showering water can run through the heated water etc.

That is a really great idea, almost like an on-demand water heater. The magnetic heater I built using a motor wasn't very efficient. A pulsed coil would need a lot of power to create the same amount of Gauss that the magnets had; >100 lbs pull force.

I've never heard of the 'pap-imi' before thank you for sharing Jeanna. The 'pap-imi' device sounds like a low level EMP generator. Would the heat in the steel cord be caused by the resistance since the frequency is so low(almost like hooking up a DC battery to a wire, pulsed DC)?  That would be great as a low watt heating element. Any ideas on the operating voltage/spark of the 'pap-imi'?

The 'pap-imi' reminds me of reading on a EMP pulse generator with 140khz, 2inch ring with 10-30 windings would disable electronic equipment around it at about 5inches. Turning almost any metal object/part in it's range into a radiating antenna. The more power you put in the greater the radius/power. I always wondered if you encircle it with dipoles if you could keep a constant charge on the radiating antennas with a tuned pickup coil in the center to use as power tap. Almost like Don Smith's device but with a EMP burst in the center. Just another idea I haven't tried yet.
Title: Re: IST'S JOULE THIEF HEATER UNITS
Post by: jeanna on September 13, 2009, 05:19:27 PM
You're welcome dreamtb,
I had to describe the pap-imi because what was done there was to make thin high pulses in order to AVOID creating heat in the body. The heat on the probe happened anyway, but it was the heat in the body that was being prevented by the thin high pulses.

With the joule thief, we are learning that thin high pulses are making good and usable amounts of power... as long as we do not try to use the power in a high amperage mode as in resistive heating.
I think we must be very clever here.

I do not say I know what we must do, but it seems that the eddy currents which are unwanted side effects of induction in a spark-gap device might be able to provide heat.

Not by running high amperage but by making a spark of high voltage. And making it frequently so the metal does not have time to cool down.

Maybe it is a good idea to look at luc's threads again with an eye to heat production.
Didn't Luc have a problem with the magnet fusing to the rod? The magnet might make a difference. I certainly does raise the frequency in a joule thief circuit, even if it does lower the voltage.

Anyway, I saw ist making sparks that heated up his carbon rods.

We COULD start by setting up some sparking devices from the JTC and watch the amps draw in relation to the heat produced.
V:heat
V+A:heat
V+magnet:heat
V+A+magnet:heat.

That kind of preliminary information could set us off in the right direction.

I imagine we could measure the heat by measuring the temperature of water containing the probe end.
Maybe there is a standard way to do this...I betcha there is.

jeanna

edit
Quotereading on a EMP pulse generator with 140khz, 2inch ring with 10-30 windings would disable electronic equipment around it at about 5inches. Turning almost any metal object/part in it's range into a radiating antenna. The more power you put in the greater the radius/power. I always wondered if you encircle it with dipoles if you could keep a constant charge on the radiating antennas with a tuned pickup coil in the center to use as power tap. Almost like Don Smith's device but with a EMP burst in the center.
Yup,
I think this is along the same idea.

short hi V pulse
cheap to make
shocks the metal and makes it hot.
j
Title: Re: IST'S JOULE THIEF HEATER UNITS
Post by: infringer on September 13, 2009, 09:36:52 PM
No I will not be building the same unit...

I have a new solar heater idea I will be building it could be a very nice addition to any home if it works as my mind assumes it will I am still struggling with two other projects to get done and fall and winter are closing in fast.

Title: Re: IST'S JOULE THIEF HEATER UNITS
Post by: resonanceman on November 20, 2009, 08:10:27 PM
Quote from: innovation_station on August 23, 2009, 03:20:04 PM
for this unit this is what is needed ... 

1 tv yoke feroite core ...

ill probally use a computer power supply for the source ...  not sure yet ...

its just a bigger jt ... thats it thats all ....  the heater does not care ..  it is a resistive load ...



IST

I still can't watch  videos

I am interested in  making a heater

Can you explain  what goes on in the video  ?

I have a TV yoke and a few monitors if I need another
I have a 12V  TIP3055 setup for  powering it .....

Do you use the  original windings on the yoke?

I have not tried  the yoke as a JT yet.
I  have no  idea how the  wires on the yoke are configured

gary

Title: Re: IST'S JOULE THIEF HEATER UNITS
Post by: innovation_station on November 20, 2009, 08:22:23 PM
this unit was not designed to operate like the jt's do we are currently working on ..

this is verry much the arc reactor ..

but used as a heat source ... agin stage 2 operation on this unit as well

banging larger current all else the same

do not touch the out put ...

i would rewind the core and use heavy gage wire .. this idea was to heat the carbon rod .. or element 

but useing 2v or there bouts and a bit of grunt !  you do not need to rectify output for heat!

it is basically a dead short to the rod ..

ist!

but this has sparks so it is not the best choise .. it needs more work .. 

im still sanding doing flooring that kind a thing i still have not unpacked my things from my move ..

this will take place soon!

hang in there bro !  your up verry soon !  ;D ;) :) :)
Title: Re: IST'S JOULE THIEF HEATER UNITS
Post by: resonanceman on November 20, 2009, 08:36:38 PM
Quote from: innovation_station on November 20, 2009, 08:22:23 PM
this unit was not designed to operate like the jt's do we are currently working on ..

this is verry much the arc reactor ..

but used as a heat source ... agin stage 2 operation on this unit as well

banging larger current all else the same

do not touch the out put ...

i would rewind the core and use heavy gage wire .. this idea was to heat the carbon rod .. or element 

but useing 2v or there bouts and a bit of grunt !  you do not need to rectify output for heat!

it is basically a dead short to the rod ..

ist!

but this has sparks so it is not the best choise .. it needs more work .. 

im still sanding doing flooring that kind a thing i still have not unpacked my things from my move ..

this will take place soon!

hang in there bro !  your up verry soon !  ;D ;) :) :)

Its  your baby .......so I will wait for  more details .

I was looking at the yoke core .
It is kind of a funny shape .
at first I thought that the shape might  be a disadvantage .
Then I realised  that  you can probably  stack several of these cores together ( before  you wrap ) if you need more power

gary
Title: Re: IST'S JOULE THIEF HEATER UNITS
Post by: innovation_station on November 20, 2009, 08:52:31 PM
see

i can not begin to explain this ....

all i can say is... it is magic ...

i just went through this with gadget .. and now  your up sooner than i realized lol

please build this if you have the materials handy .. as you have  got a wonderfull idea there .. 

there more to the yokes as jeanna knows ... with her hour glass configuration ..

i bet they make great cone style units ...  too!  probally just use them wound as they are in your design..  slick  ;D ;D ;D ;D

8)


no wonder kooler has add ... i hope i dont develop my case worse than it is ... lol  ;D ;D

anyone could build what you just explained gary! this is awesome and super cheep ..

thank you !

w

Title: Re: IST'S JOULE THIEF HEATER UNITS
Post by: resonanceman on November 20, 2009, 09:14:54 PM
Quote from: innovation_station on November 20, 2009, 08:52:31 PM
see

i can not begin to explain this ....

all i can say is... it is magic ...

i just went through this with gadget .. and now  your up sooner than i realized lol

please build this if you have the materials handy .. as you have  got a wonderfull idea there .. 

there more to the yokes as jeanna knows ... with her hour glass configuration ..

i bet they make great cone style units ...  too!  probally just use them wound as they are in your design..  slick  ;D ;D ;D ;D

8)


no wonder kooler has add ... i hope i dont develop my case worse than it is ... lol  ;D ;D

anyone could build what you just explained gary! this is awesome and super cheep ..

thank you !

w

IST

OK
I will try a JT  using  a yoke as the core.

a couple  of questions  because it sounds like you have used a  core like this before .

You said use heavy wire for the secondary ....... any suggstions on how heavy ?

Any  suggestions on the number of  wraps for  the windings ?

It may  take a little while to get the heavier wire .


gary 
Title: Re: IST'S JOULE THIEF HEATER UNITS
Post by: innovation_station on November 20, 2009, 09:23:00 PM
for your design i dont think you need to do a lot .. just use the cores as you said ..

as for rewinding if you go this rute.. 

i would use thick wire a primary  like 14ga solid or something this ring will not get hot so it can ripp damm fast .. a spark gap would drive this really nicely ... but through a diode after the gap b4 the coil so your fly back flys out the seconday ..

to the heater of choise ..

now secondary should match primary by mass 1 times 2 3 4 times .. expairmentation  will be required .. if you hit any number i mentioned of the mass of the primary .. it should be intresting ..

but first i would reccomend you find what makes your core ringgg or singgg  ;D

ist!
Title: Re: IST'S JOULE THIEF HEATER UNITS
Post by: resonanceman on November 20, 2009, 10:16:29 PM
Quote from: innovation_station on November 20, 2009, 09:23:00 PM
for your design i dont think you need to do a lot .. just use the cores as you said ..

as for rewinding if you go this rute.. 

i would use thick wire a primary  like 14ga solid or something this ring will not get hot so it can ripp damm fast .. a spark gap would drive this really nicely ... but through a diode after the gap b4 the coil so your fly back flys out the seconday ..

to the heater of choise ..

now secondary should match primary by mass 1 times 2 3 4 times .. expairmentation  will be required .. if you hit any number i mentioned of the mass of the primary .. it should be intresting ..

but first i would reccomend you find what makes your core ringgg or singgg  ;D

ist!

IST  thanks

I will  start looking for  some  wire

Sorry .........but I don't  do spark  gaps .
This  does  present  a chance to  test  a few theorys I have came up with lately
It is also  a reason to  try a different  approach  that I have been thinking of  trying for a while

I might  be able to test 1 or 2 of them tonight


gary
Title: Re: IST'S JOULE THIEF HEATER UNITS
Post by: innovation_station on November 20, 2009, 10:45:50 PM
sounds like it is now your baby ...


make her sing bro!

i know it will work ... but you know me ..  ;D 

i keep jumping around i really want to tackle the invertor unit ..

i know you have the skills to make this one what it is suspoto be ..  8) 8)

its all yours my friend .. !

william

please post  your results when im able i will duplicate it .. and confirm ..

i think just stacking 3 cores and winding a basic jt .. may surprize you
Title: Re: IST'S JOULE THIEF HEATER UNITS
Post by: resonanceman on November 20, 2009, 10:56:49 PM
test 1  done

here is  a drawing of my pulse coil.

Kind of simple  isn't it .

:)


Not  to sure about the fine points
other than heavy  wire .
Bifilar    fed from opposite ends
I am not sure how many  wraps ......or how many  yoke cores to use .

This  coil  with the right core and the right windings  could  possibly replace most if not all the  external  coils in my self charge circuit

gary

Title: Re: IST'S JOULE THIEF HEATER UNITS
Post by: innovation_station on November 20, 2009, 11:05:40 PM
i will think on this over night ..

and your on tommorow ..

i will help you hammer it out ...

my head hurts from today i need a break ..

lol

your just too fast bro .. !

but this is infact no time to slow down the pace of things ...

w
Title: Re: IST'S JOULE THIEF HEATER UNITS
Post by: resonanceman on November 20, 2009, 11:52:35 PM
Quote from: innovation_station on November 20, 2009, 11:05:40 PM
i will think on this over night ..

and your on tommorow ..

i will help you hammer it out ...

my head hurts from today i need a break ..

lol

your just too fast bro .. !

but this is infact no time to slow down the pace of things ...

w

I might need your help  with the driving  circuit

I understand  you have some experience  with MOSFETS

This coil  needs to be hooked up   similar to the   external  coils in my self charge circuit .
In effect  it is the  power lines to the  load.

Now ..... I plan on powering  it with  a MOSFET  driven by a small JT
I  want to feed  the  12 V  through the MOSFET to the coil .
The  12 V pulses should  provide  a pretty goodkick.
The  problem is  the return leg .
I am thinking that  the right  cap  between the  feed into  the coil and the feed out of the coil  might  just work .
I am not  sure if this  will  work .......and I have no idea where the ground should be  .

Making  a normal  JT  with a yoke core might work great .........but  I would rather make a phase 2 JT


gary
Title: Re: IST'S JOULE THIEF HEATER UNITS
Post by: innovation_station on November 21, 2009, 12:59:35 AM
i just cant leave ...

i guess this is big time important

this is a great plan for this

i have used freq gennys with my fets ... and a stable source of power .. this is where a ultra cap would come in handy .. this is why

im gonna make the power can ... really soon .. just what gadget just did only i want better charge time  that can.....  can then become a standard power supply for ALL OF THE DEVICES we come up with .. that is stage 1 ..   aa solar eb ... what you desire as a source .. ok


now the fets need to be protected so as not to blow them and you dont want the returning power to reach what they can handle .. it is best to use only as a means to fire .. should never be used for flyback they burn up ..  when i mean fly back i mean do not remove from where you would with the jt .. you must trap the flyback magnetic in the ring .. do this by blocking it in the primary so it has no choise but to exit where we tell it to ..

that is majour! key

ist

more tommorow


Title: Re: IST'S JOULE THIEF HEATER UNITS
Post by: resonanceman on November 21, 2009, 07:25:24 PM
Quote from: innovation_station on November 21, 2009, 12:59:35 AM
i just cant leave ...

i guess this is big time important

this is a great plan for this

i have used freq gennys with my fets ... and a stable source of power .. this is where a ultra cap would come in handy .. this is why

im gonna make the power can ... really soon .. just what gadget just did only i want better charge time  that can.....  can then become a standard power supply for ALL OF THE DEVICES we come up with .. that is stage 1 ..   aa solar eb ... what you desire as a source .. ok


now the fets need to be protected so as not to blow them and you dont want the returning power to reach what they can handle .. it is best to use only as a means to fire .. should never be used for flyback they burn up ..  when i mean fly back i mean do not remove from where you would with the jt .. you must trap the flyback magnetic in the ring .. do this by blocking it in the primary so it has no choise but to exit where we tell it to ..

that is majour! key

ist

more tommorow

I guess  you are telling me that  if I build my  circuit that I will fry my MOSFET

It seems to me that there must be  a way to protect  a MOSFET  in  situations like this .

It seems to me that  a LARGE diode  just after  the  MOSFET might help .



I think tonight  I am going to try another test on  a different  project . ...... It might end up here ......if it works out well


Title: Re: IST'S JOULE THIEF HEATER UNITS
Post by: innovation_station on November 21, 2009, 10:31:42 PM
gary i have a delicat verry special project just for you ...

this is a very special gift .. 

for the fets you need 2 diodes .. and pnp fets ... pos pulse goes through fet  then diode ..  you then take a diode off in oppsite dirrection b4 the fet after the diode .. important ...  or...  you dont put the second diode there you allow the colpase and inputted engery to transfer through the core ...


my gift to you superceeds many ...

you will throw this in the garbage when you build this  gift i give to you as your 3/4 of the way there ..   

msg me for details ...  after you master this you can share it ... ok

:)

if you need help start a topic i will help u ...
w814!
Title: Re: IST'S JOULE THIEF HEATER UNITS
Post by: Artic_Knight on December 04, 2009, 09:32:57 PM
so no one has any substantial idea or experiment for a JT heater yet?  lets try using very thin wires with a normal JT, with a specialty diode we can force a large spike down a thin wire and that may generate the heat. better yet lets get a ceramic off the shelf cheep heater and try to see if a jt can be modded to power it. i have a cheep ceramic heater in mind. they are less that 20 bux at walmart.

come on lets get movin on this! this is the first logistical world benefiting application i have seen from a circuit that is supposedly so fantastic.

thats my 2c
Title: Re: IST'S JOULE THIEF HEATER UNITS
Post by: resonanceman on December 04, 2009, 11:13:53 PM
Quote from: Artic_Knight on December 04, 2009, 09:32:57 PM
so no one has any substantial idea or experiment for a JT heater yet?  lets try using very thin wires with a normal JT, with a specialty diode we can force a large spike down a thin wire and that may generate the heat. better yet lets get a ceramic off the shelf cheep heater and try to see if a jt can be modded to power it. i have a cheep ceramic heater in mind. they are less that 20 bux at walmart.

come on lets get movin on this! this is the first logistical world benefiting application i have seen from a circuit that is supposedly so fantastic.

thats my 2c

ArticKnight

I  have been working on other things ...........and I was thinking more along the lines of  those  Peltier modules    that way  we have hot or cold .

I have been  looking into how to fill a Ultracap lately ......
Assuming  I can work that out ......scaling   it up  a  little  from 2 V to 12 should be no problem 


gary
Title: Re: IST'S JOULE THIEF HEATER UNITS
Post by: guruji on December 06, 2009, 01:50:49 PM
Quote from: Artic_Knight on December 04, 2009, 09:32:57 PM
so no one has any substantial idea or experiment for a JT heater yet?  lets try using very thin wires with a normal JT, with a specialty diode we can force a large spike down a thin wire and that may generate the heat. better yet lets get a ceramic off the shelf cheep heater and try to see if a jt can be modded to power it. i have a cheep ceramic heater in mind. they are less that 20 bux at walmart.

come on lets get movin on this! this is the first logistical world benefiting application i have seen from a circuit that is supposedly so fantastic.

thats my 2c

Hi Arctic you're right no one have done it yet. To light up a heater it's a hard task I think cause it has to be 1000w at least.
Wish a hero to come forward and do this.
Thanks
Title: Re: IST'S JOULE THIEF HEATER UNITS
Post by: Artic_Knight on December 17, 2009, 03:06:36 AM
well i have noticed some interesting things about electricity since fooling with joulthiefs. im sure anyone who has played with them noticed that hv low amp seems to power devices with less watts consumed than that device was rated for. this i believe has applied to lights thus far.

now the joule thief could be "reversed" and instead of creating a high frequency high voltage low amp current for lights (the most effecient for lighting) perhaps for heating we will find its high frequency low voltage high amperage thats most effecient. i believe using a tesla bifiliar wound coil as the pickup should achieve this easily, especially if the primary and trigger are double the windings.

i found that bifiliar coils if powered create a higher magnetic field and higher voltage (if collected by a regular coil)  but if operated in reverse they create high amps. its rather interesting. as if the increased magnetic field produced wasnt interesting enough.  i believe its been proven that amps creates heat in the "resistance" style heaters such as metal filiments or ceramics even quartz and that the voltage has less (if any) importance here like with lights.

The right frequency will do the most good considering if the frequency is right you can heat metal in seconds through a induced magnetic field.  i believe its called induction heating/welding.

hmm much testing needs to be done.

guess ill start fooling around with with the classic 3 coil joule with the bifiliar pickup on a ceramic heater element. perhaps a touch of tesla with the air core for higher frequencies and maybe a 4th coil in resonance would help.
Title: Re: IST'S JOULE THIEF HEATER UNITS
Post by: Foggy-Notion on January 02, 2010, 06:43:00 PM
Quote from: jeanna on September 10, 2009, 08:57:19 PM
So,IST,
How much heat and what is producing the heat?
You were getting a lot of heat from the carbon rod.
Carbon is what they did use for lamp filaments, and I think it is a good beginning.

Have you made progress?

I am very interested in heat production and you were getting a lot of heat with your power supply.
After you compare it volt for volt with a 1.2v battery, how much heat would you be getting from one AA?

jeanna

Perhaps it should better serve us in it's own thread, but in response to the above, I say there is a great deal of potential to the Perkins Friction Heater, invented by distant kin of mine, or should I say, re-invented, as everything has been, Ecc 1:10 ...in any case, it is not the heater shown in this youtube video...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yh_-DUKQ4Uw

Which in itself is Over Unity, but the friction heater I speak of has perhaps a misleading name as there is much less friction than expected, it is simply two cilinders, one spining inside the other, 1/8" space gap between them, filled with oil.  the oil reacts to the spinning by reaching 250 degrees quite fast.  A small toy electric motor can spin this soup pot contraption, in fact a clock maker could could rig it wind-up action.

I will repost this in it's own thread as well, I think.
Title: Re: IST'S JOULE THIEF HEATER UNITS
Post by: guruji on January 03, 2010, 01:42:06 PM
Quote from: Artic_Knight on December 17, 2009, 03:06:36 AM
well i have noticed some interesting things about electricity since fooling with joulthiefs. im sure anyone who has played with them noticed that hv low amp seems to power devices with less watts consumed than that device was rated for. this i believe has applied to lights thus far.

now the joule thief could be "reversed" and instead of creating a high frequency high voltage low amp current for lights (the most effecient for lighting) perhaps for heating we will find its high frequency low voltage high amperage thats most effecient. i believe using a tesla bifiliar wound coil as the pickup should achieve this easily, especially if the primary and trigger are double the windings.

i found that bifiliar coils if powered create a higher magnetic field and higher voltage (if collected by a regular coil)  but if operated in reverse they create high amps. its rather interesting. as if the increased magnetic field produced wasnt interesting enough.  i believe its been proven that amps creates heat in the "resistance" style heaters such as metal filiments or ceramics even quartz and that the voltage has less (if any) importance here like with lights.

The right frequency will do the most good considering if the frequency is right you can heat metal in seconds through a induced magnetic field.  i believe its called induction heating/welding.

hmm much testing needs to be done.

guess ill start fooling around with with the classic 3 coil joule with the bifiliar pickup on a ceramic heater element. perhaps a touch of tesla with the air core for higher frequencies and maybe a 4th coil in resonance would help.

Hi Artic you have said this:but if operated in reverse they create high amps.How do you put coils in reverse or I did not understand you rightly. Can you please clarify this?
Thanks
Title: Re: IST'S JOULE THIEF HEATER UNITS
Post by: Foggy-Notion on January 03, 2010, 04:30:41 PM
Opperating the coils in reverse means to use both mirrors, make beeping sound, and switch the input with the output, hence the primary becomes the secondary and the secondary is used as the primary. 

Here is that heater link...
http://www.rexresearch.com/frenette/frenette.htm

The thing is, these heaters can be run by a small stirling engine,
And the heat produced can power that stirling engine while heating your home.
I think you see what's going on there.
Title: Re: IST'S JOULE THIEF HEATER UNITS
Post by: guruji on January 03, 2010, 04:50:09 PM
Hi Foggy thanks for response. I had build a heater that you're reffering to.I did it with a water pump motor casing and put a paint can in it with about 1/8" space. but maybe I did not spin it enough fast. The other thing that I suspected that my inner container is without holes not as shown on youtube maybe that's why it did not work.
Title: Re: IST'S JOULE THIEF HEATER UNITS
Post by: Foggy-Notion on January 03, 2010, 09:39:29 PM
The 1/8" has to be (exactly) 1/8"
Oil (not water) has to be between the pan walls,
but not filling up inner pan.  My sources swear it works.
Both pans should be of the same metal I think.
Title: Re: IST'S JOULE THIEF HEATER UNITS
Post by: guruji on January 04, 2010, 02:13:50 PM
Quote from: Foggy-Notion on January 03, 2010, 09:39:29 PM
The 1/8" has to be (exactly) 1/8"
Oil (not water) has to be between the pan walls,
but not filling up inner pan.  My sources swear it works.
Both pans should be of the same metal I think.

In the link that you've showed before it's water that they are boiling. Impressive.
Today I opened it again but it's not 1/8" that I have it's a bit wider maybe that's why it did'nt work.
Hope to find the right size container that fits exactly. I will try it again. The info that I have the inner should be aluminium outer not important.
I did oil but any liquid should work.
Title: Re: IST'S JOULE THIEF HEATER UNITS
Post by: Foggy-Notion on January 04, 2010, 05:04:18 PM
That's another thing, you can't find any pans that will fit into one another with that exact gap, not even from different manufacturers.  It's as if they all cooperated with some hidious horned head hancho in hell.