Wow! It actually works. Maybe the inventor of the Testatika is telling the truth.
http://globalfreeenergy.info/2009/10/24/experiment-success-dc-power-form-magnets/ (http://globalfreeenergy.info/2009/10/24/experiment-success-dc-power-form-magnets/)
Regards,
Paul
Paul, your just a tornado of freeness energy experiments (real free energy). One day your gonna figure out how to get some real current.
Hi Paul
Is it not a fact that magnetic fields produce electricity
cat
Quote from: powercat on October 24, 2009, 05:43:50 PMHi Paul
Is it not a fact that magnetic fields produce electricity
cat
What do you mean? Conventional physics claims that the magnetic field must be moving, relatively speaking, to produce voltage.
Paul
Quote from: spoondini on October 24, 2009, 03:24:00 PM
Paul, your just a tornado of freeness energy experiments (real free energy). One day your gonna figure out how to get some real current.
Yes, I look forward to the day when I can get past that mysterious 10pA threshold!!! :D
Isn't this the difference between permanent magnet and electro magnetism.
cat
The magnetic field from an electro magnet does not produce DC current. Anyhow, in this experiment there's no batteries. It's just a magnet, insulated wax paper, and a metal bolt.
Paul
Ok Paul
I would have thought that any magnetic field would produce some voltage, and if you did work with this voltage the magnet would slowly lose its magnetism.
cat
Quote from: powercat on October 24, 2009, 05:43:50 PM
Hi Paul
Is it not a fact that magnetic fields produce electricity
cat
Hi Cat.
I think magnetic fields(virtual photons) 'move' electric fields(electrons). magnetic fields are not electric fields, they are separate forces but interact with each other when force is applied to make them move.
hope this helps.
Jerry ;)
Hi Paul,
Is it possible that the current (or voltage) your meter shows comes from the enviroment and the meter probe wires serve as an antenna pick-up wires?
If you agree you could repeat the measurements with the same components, except using much shorter pieces of probe wires like just 2-3 inches?
Also repeat the measurements outside, well away from the place you have been so far. If you find significant differences at different places, then it has been worth the efforts.
Thanks, Gyula
Thank's Jerry
If what Paul is saying is true, then the small gap curated by the paper is producing electrons ???
BTW I have never claimed to be any expert, and I tried to take a journalistic approach to overunity,
In the past I have learnt a lot from watching films like this one.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5sF06nBPeg :)
cat
Hi Gyula,
These magnet experiments are just quick & dirty experiments so far, and they're not inside any metal shielding, so indeed it could be from external RF energy, but I seriously doubt it.
IMO it's either due to electrochemical reactions from the paper, or something unknown. It's not due to a simple theory such as some unknown particles flowing in the magnetic field that would cause friction on the electrons to move them because I tried flipping the magnet to reverse the field, and it did not flip the voltage polarity.
So if it's something unknown, then it's a more complex interaction. If it's some unknown particle flow in the field, then maybe it interacts with the magnet regardless of the magnets orientation, and perhaps slowly knocks out electrons in their orbit to produce free electrons, which would produce a voltage potential.
Who knows. Right now I'm playing with various types of paper. So far I don't see much change between common white paper & double sided waxed paper. If it was due to the water in paper, electrochemical, then the voltage should drop considerably in double sided wax paper, no? But the experiments show that the voltage is about the same. As far as I'm aware, the electrochemical reactions between metals & wax is almost non-existant compared to metal & paper. Paper contains appreciable amount of water.
Regards,
Paul
Paul,
Have tried with no paper? This 10 pa thing is bugging me, I'll do some metaresearch to find out if there are any known correlations.
spoondini,
Yes, I tried no paper while measuring with the AM-240, and it showed 0.0 mV, but without the paper it's a short, right? So maybe I should use the microvolt meter.
If you could find *anything* in conventional science regarding roughly a 10pA constant, then I'd love that!!! I don't care even if it's derived, perhaps dividing the speed of light by compton wavelength times gravitational constant divided by this and that = 10 pA.
It's strange though. The 10pA occurred time after time in every type of tested diode. Then the big shocker was when the piezo (after it had been shorted for a long time) produce ~ 10pA. I couldn't believe it.
And the 10pA is shown in other experiments such as Tom Schum. For example the Rz resistance of his 1N34A diodes is ~ 50Kohms at room temp, so the predicted DC voltage from his 32 x 32 1N34A diode array is 50Kohm * 10pA * 32 / 32 = 0.5uV DC. Well would you believe that the average DC voltage Tom measured was 0.57 uV!
Another example is the THz diode array chip Tom measured. Tom measured Rz at 2Mohm, so the predicted voltage is 2Mohm * 10pA = 20uV. Tom measured 15uV on this THz diode array chip!
Same thing is found in countless of my own measurements.
BTW, ss there anyone here who's good at chemistry? Koan's know's a lot, but he doesn't seem to post much anymore.
Regards,
Paul
There must be some type of current flow through the paper, etc.
I wonder if you just stacked magnets with an insulator, paper, between each if that would increase the voltage potential, and maybe just eliminating the washer.
Magluvin
and here are some more measurements,
Common white paper that is soaked with water: 0.75 volts
Wax paper: 0.52 volts
Wax paper, flipped (in case it's only sided wax paper): 0.52 volts
and next will be a piece of transparent plastic, relatively thick.
It's a guarantee the soaked wet paper will produce a lot of electrochemical reactions, but if this is electrochemical then I would have expected the wax paper to produce hardly no voltage. For example, I have some extremely dead 1.5V Alkaline batteries that produce a few milli volts.
Or maybe stacked with washers in between, due to the mag being coated all the way around with nickle, etc. to allow charges to be separate from pole to pole. washer, paper, magnet, paper, washer, magnet, etc.
Magluvin
If this were true, I could imagine a continuous current flow through the nickle plating of neos. I wonder if their ambient temp is greater than their surroundings.
Mags
That is good test, Magluvin. What's interesting about diodes & piezos is that regardless of how many are placed in parallel, they still produce 10pA. Well, that is, when the diode or piezos have stabilized. Initially they seem to store charge, far more than their capacitance, so after that's been discharged, they will settle down near 10 pA.
Maybe the magnet experiments will be the same, after being shorted long enough, they will produce 10pA.
Paul
With transparent plastic, relatively thick, the voltage was 0.36 volts.
BTW, all of these recent measurements were done with an electrometer.
I think the soaked wet white paper was mostly electrochemical reactions. The wax paper had some electrochemical reactions. And I'd expect no measurable reactions in the plastic. So where is this 0.36 volts coming from? Maybe from metal to metal reactions??? BTW, the metal & plastic was cleaned.
Paul
It makes me think about the N-machine. If we have 2 magnets on each end of a coil, one N in and one S in, and put it in a car, as we drive does it generate current in the coil due to the motion of the car? Would there be drag?
Ill tell ya, I think we are all in for some real discoveries here soon with all we know at this time. Its a wonderful thing.
Mags
Hey, the Steorn forum is hacked. Could people be a witness to this while it's still there? If they read this post then they'll probably change the post back. First go to this thread -->
http://www.steorn.com/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=62157&page=1 (http://www.steorn.com/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=62157&page=1)
scroll down to a post by aber0der that says:
+++
My initial test data:
Absolute voltage, so I did not write down the polarity:
* Common white paper(Ledger, antique finish) that was soaked with water(Volvic): 0.78 volts
* Lard paper: 0.55 volts
* Wax paper, flipped (in case it's only sided wax paper): 0.55 volts
* Transparent plastic, relatively thin: 0.39 volts
+++
And then could you please confirm that his post does *NOT* say "edited"?
Then scroll down and confirm my that my post that says the same thing as his post.
Could you please post here confirming both of these? Thanks!
I made my post 1st. Then they hacked the forum by editing their earlier post with some extra silliness, to make my post appear as if I copied them. It's a hack because it's not possible to edit a post without the "edited" text.
For sometime now I've had proof that some people there seem to have hacked to steorn forum because I've seen my own posts edited without the "edited" text, that makes me look like an idiot. The admins there said I'm crazy that nobody has hacked the steorn forum.
Paul
At this moment his post is the 5th from the last, and my post is last.
Here's data from further experiments:
When the magnet was flipped, the voltage did not flip. Then the wax paper was flipped, and the voltage flipped. So I think most the voltage is produced by the wax paper. Then I used transparent plastic, relatively thick, and it still produced voltage. Here's the data so far -->
Absolute voltage, so I did not write down the polarity:
* Common white paper that was soaked with water: 0.75 volts
* Wax paper: 0.52 volts
* Wax paper, flipped (in case it's only sided wax paper): 0.52 volts
* Transparent plastic, relatively thick: 0.36 volts
Obviously the soaked wet white paper version was mostly electrochemical reactions. The wax paper had some electrochemical reactions. But I'd expect no measurable reactions with the plastic test. So where is this 0.36 volts coming from in the plastic test? Maybe from metal to metal reactions??? BTW, the metal & plastic was cleaned.
PL
That was all text of your post. No edit
Mags
Thanks for confirming. I don't how they're hacking the steorn forum, but I've seen a lot of my older posts changed to make me look like an idiot. For example, they'll change "a few micro watts" to "a few micro whats."
Quote from: Magluvin on October 24, 2009, 09:59:27 PM
That was all text of your post. No edit
And notice how his post is also not edited, yet his post contains text that I only wrote at steorn such as "Absolute voltage"
I've seen this hacking occur over there numerous times. The Internet is crazy now. We can't even trust our posts.
Regards,
Paul
Yes Paul it works.
I did a basic test with a speaker magnet, small piece of A4 paper and a washer,I tried with a bolt
but the best results were with the washer, I also tried with other paper types back notes were the worst barely registering any mV on the meter.
The mV were not stable at the beginning of my test, jumping between 34 mV and 40 mV,
once the test had been running for 5 to 10 minutes it stayed at 36 mV
I also notice that if I measured the other way round the voltage polarity did change,
maybe this is due to using a round speaker magnet.
This was a crude ameter test though it does seem to prove the principle works.
cat
Interesting findings.
It could be that the thickness of the paper used is also relevant.
So just judging that waxed paper of normal paper is causing different voltages due to the type of paper may be part of the puzzle.
Does multiple paper layers also give different results?
Just curious..
Try it with a leaf of a tree instead of paper.
Or some crystals ( melt sugar and press to become a very thin layer... )
Good luck
Quote from: PaulLowrance on October 24, 2009, 05:45:06 PM
...
Conventional physics claims that the magnetic field must be moving, relatively speaking, to produce voltage.
...
Conventional physics does not claim such things. A field is defined by scalar values in space. A "moving" field is a non-sens because a referential frame cannot be attached to a field. A "moving" field is a way of speaking of a varying field.
Conventional physics says a voltage is produced along a conductor moving in a magnetic field, viewed from the referential frame of an observer at rest. It is very different.
Quote from: teslaalset on October 25, 2009, 05:39:49 AM
Interesting findings.
It could be that the thickness of the paper used is also relevant.
So just judging that waxed paper of normal paper is causing different voltages due to the type of paper may be part of the puzzle.
Does multiple paper layers also give different results?
Hi teslaalset
I use multiple paper layers the mV goes down
I don't have any wax paper
Hi Cherryman
I tried it with a leaf :o 180 mV :o
The problem is a leaf will deteriorate.
I don't take sugar so I will have to get some from a neighbour,
if you have any more info please share.
cat
Quote from: powercat on October 25, 2009, 06:59:48 AM
Hi teslaalset
I use multiple paper layers the mV goes down
I don't have any wax paper
Thanks for the feedback.
I would say that if even thinner paper is used the voltage would go up.
Until a certain minimum thickness. Then kind of shortage could occur.
Looks like we need some nano technology.
The thinnest paper I had was a cigarette paper the results were very poor nearly as bad as the banknote.
I found this video on YouTube, was this the one you were looking for Paul ?
Apparently there is already a thread on this topic but I can't find it anywhere on the fourm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3mX8S767zT4&NR=1
cat
Quote from: powercat on October 25, 2009, 05:09:18 AM
Yes Paul it works.
I did a basic test with a speaker magnet, small piece of A4 paper and a washer,I tried with a bolt
but the best results were with the washer, I also tried with other paper types back notes were the worst barely registering any mV on the meter.
The mV were not stable at the beginning of my test, jumping between 34 mV and 40 mV,
once the test had been running for 5 to 10 minutes it stayed at 36 mV
That's awesome! Hey, 36mV is almost exactly what I got while my meter was in 4V mode (where Rin is low, 20Mohms), which was 35mV. I'm certain that the reason your reading was 36mV is because the meters input resistance is extremely low compared to the paper insulation. So your meter is shunting the voltage. If I change my meter from 4V to 400mV mode, then the meter measures closer to the true voltage, which was ~ 600mV. This meters Rin in 400mV has nearly 1000 times the input resistance, so it does not shut the voltage.
So I think if you used the AM-240 voltage meter or better yet an electrometer you would measure much higher voltages. An AM-240, bran new, cost $40. It's a nice inexpensive DMM that's in-between a common meter & an electrometer. Or if you want, you can make your own electrometer with a single chip that cost less than $10. It's extremely simple to make the circuit because the chip does not require any components except a battery to power it! ;D
Congrats!
Paul
Quote from: exnihiloest on October 25, 2009, 06:35:13 AM
Conventional physics does not claim such things. A field is defined by scalar values in space. A "moving" field is a non-sens because a referential frame cannot be attached to a field. A "moving" field is a way of speaking of a varying field.
Conventional physics says a voltage is produced along a conductor moving in a magnetic field, viewed from the referential frame of an observer at rest. It is very different.
Same thing, our statements are the same. A moving field. It's all relative as you say. Goes without saying. Conventional science claims everything is relative to each other. According to conventional science, our statements are the same.
A rotating disc magnet is a moving field relative to the stationary copper disc, and yes it is correct to say that the field is moving relative to the copper disc, or vice-versa.
BTW, good conventional scientists do not speak in terms of "absolutes," as they admit that conventional science is not perfect, does not know it all, and will always evolve.
Paul
Quote from: powercat on October 25, 2009, 09:50:53 AM
The thinnest paper I had was a cigarette paper the results were very poor nearly as bad as the banknote.
I found this video on YouTube, was this the one you were looking for Paul ?
Apparently there is already a thread on this topic but I can't find it anywhere on the fourm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3mX8S767zT4&NR=1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3mX8S767zT4&NR=1)
cat
That's a different video.
I think the main reason the leaf showed more voltage on your meter was because the leaf has lower resistance, which means your meter will not shunt the voltage as much.
Maybe you could find the input resistance of your voltage meter. If it's at least 10Mohms, then you could place a 10uF capacitor (low leakage is highly recommended), then give it awhile to charge, and then measure the voltage across the capacitor with your meter. The amount of time require to allow the capacitor to charge depends on the insulation resistance of whatever is between the magnet and washer.
Regards,
Paul
I tried to replicate this effect but failed to measure larger than 0 volt.
My digital multimeter may not be that high resistant as Paul's or Cat's.
I'll try the experiment with the capacitor.
B.t.w. I calculated the capacitor situation : 1 uF in 5 minutes to 600 mV: that gives you 2 nA load current, apart from the leakage resistance that an electrolyte capacitor has.
teslaalset,
What did you use as an insulator? If you use something like paper or even wax paper then you might get at least a few millivolts.
... wait a minute. My meter when in 20Mohm Rin mode got 35mV, but some meters have only 1 to 2 Mohms Rin. One of my harbor freight meters is like 1Mohm. In that case, you should get a bit over 1mV. So maybe your insulation has to much resistance.
... Or maybe your metal washer is different. What kind of metal are you using? What type of magnet?
Thanks,
Paul
Quote from: PaulLowrance on October 25, 2009, 10:17:01 AM
That's a different video.
I think the main reason the leaf showed more voltage on your meter was because the leaf has lower resistance, which means your meter will not shunt the voltage as much.
Maybe you could find the input resistance of your voltage meter. If it's at least 10Mohms, then you could place a 10uF capacitor (low leakage is highly recommended), then give it awhile to charge, and then measure the voltage across the capacitor with your meter. The amount of time require to allow the capacitor to charge depends on the insulation resistance of whatever is between the magnet and washer.
Regards,
Paul
My meter is 10MΩ But I am going to have to search through my old electric junk for a 10uF
cat
This is a good RC time constant online tool,
http://www.cvs1.uklinux.net/cgi-bin/calculators/time_const.cgi
Plugging in 10Mohm & 10uF & 3 seconds gives 3% decay which is good. That means every 3 seconds the 10Mohm meter will drain the 10uF cap 3%.
You could probably get away with a 2uF cap, which drains 14% per 3 seconds. It might take a long time to charge the 10uF cap.
Paul
The INA116P makes a nice electrometer that has well over 1E+15 ohms input resistance. With that you can use high insulation materials such as thin plastic.
newark.com - $7.56
Digikey.com - $8.40
Best thing about this chip is that for gain of 1 it requires absolutely no components, just batteries.
Paul
What's interesting is the magnet experiment with plastic as the insulator that was producing 0.36 volts yesterday is now dead. So far that's showing the same characteristics as the high Rz diodes. That is, diodes with high Rz are easily disturbed, so much so that even taking too many measurements with a voltage meter can place them in the disturbed state for a long time.
Anyhow, I'm tired of long term experiments, it's like watching grass grow, so this is it for the plastic experiments. It's time to figure out how to get higher currents. Maybe something with low resistance such as a thin sheet of graphite would work.
Paul
I accidentally posted this on the "Verify this: Steorn foum hacked" thread, so I post it again here...
I just tried the experiment myself.
I set my digital meter to the 200m range, I'm not sure if the 'm' means millivolts or microvolts.
I placed a Stanley knife blade on my computer table, then put a piece of ordinary plain printing paper on top of it, leaving part of the blade poking out as a meter connection. I then touched the probes, one to the magnet and one on the blade. I then repeated the experiment again, but this time with the paper doubled. I got a reading with both, but with the paper doubled, the reading doubled also.
After doing the above, I tried it again with part of a plastic bag. First I put down one layer, and then folded it just like I did with the paper. This time, I got no reading.
My conclusion... It's possible that it's just a chemical reaction in the paper, or maybe my meter is so crap and cheap it simply may not be sensitive enough.
My results were...
Digital meter set @ 200m
With paper (single): ~ 01.0
With paper (double): ~ 02.0
With plastic bag (single) 00.0
With plastic bag (double) 00.0
Although my results seem to debunk the theory, please don't stop experimenting with magnets. I do actually believe electricity may one day be harnessed from permanent magnets.
I also forgot to mention the size of the Neo-Mag. It is a 6mm X 3mm disk Neo-Mag.
Bulbz,
Your experiment matches the theory. I would never in a million years expect a DMM to be able to read voltage on your experiment with the plastic bag because the resistance is astronomically high. I had to use an electrometer to see the voltage, but indeed I did measure 0.36 volts with a relatively thick plastic bag used as insulator.
So how can anyone explain why I measured 0.36 volts with plastic as insulator?
I find your findings of double thick paper that doubled the voltage very interesting. According to the mysterious diode theory, the diode & piezo want to be a current source; i.e., fixed current. So if you double the paper thickness, that doubles the resistance, and if the current is the same, then the voltage will double, V = I*R
Anyhow, my next post you'll see some interesting.
Regards,
Paul
Okay, here's some interesting experiments. I replaced the metal bolt with another disc NdFeB magnet. So there's now two magnets. Dry paper was placed in the center, although we know that even dry paper has some water, but we don't know how much voltage & current that would produce in electrochemical reactions.
Here's the recent experiments:
It started out producing 0.1 volts, but continued to slowly *climb*. It went up to 0.15 volts, and then began slowly declining. Okay, so far this is a matches diode and piezo experiments. The EE, by profession, who connected his electrometer to a data logger (months ago), saw the same thing where the voltage slowly increased, and then it slowly decreased.
After it began to go down below 0.15 volts, I moved the probe wires that are connected to the magnets around to different locations. The voltage jittered around a bit, nothing unexpected, but didn't make much difference. I then took everything apart, separated the magnets. Put it back together, and the voltage was ~ 2mV; i.e., dead. Could it be "disturbed?"
So maybe it's not due to the paper. Then moving it to different locations on the paper would not change nothing. Or maybe the chemicals in the magnet were drained. Fine, so I flipped the magnets to the other side. So it's using the other side of magnet that's been unused so far. No change! The voltage was also low. It's as if handling the magnets disturbes then, which is also seen in diode & piezo experiments. There are a lot of ways to disturb the diodes-- rapid temp changes, current, if it's an LED then shining low levels of light on it place it in disturbed state for a long time.
I then cleaned the magnets, and tried it again. Same thing, low voltage.
Man I telling you there's something mysterious going on, and so far this matches the diode & piezo experiments. The only final thing is to see if the magnets recover when left undisturbed, which is what the diodes & piezos do.
Regards,
Paul
If it matters much, my NdFeB magnets are 0.47" diameter, 0.12" thick, and have a metal coating that's probably the typical nickel. The white paper thickness is 5 mills.
Paul
Quote from: PaulLowrance on October 25, 2009, 12:03:53 PM
Bulbz,
Your experiment matches the theory. I would never in a million years expect a DMM to be able to read voltage on your experiment with the plastic bag because the resistance is astronomically high. I had to use an electrometer to see the voltage, but indeed I did measure 0.36 volts with a relatively thick plastic bag used as insulator.
So how can anyone explain why I measured 0.36 volts with plastic as insulator?
I find your findings of double thick paper that doubled the voltage very interesting. According to the mysterious diode theory, the diode & piezo want to be a current source; i.e., fixed current. So if you double the paper thickness, that doubles the resistance, and if the current is the same, then the voltage will double, V = I*R
Anyhow, my next post you'll see some interesting.
Regards,
Paul
So it may be my crappy DMM then ;)
Keep up the good work Paul. As I mentioned in my other post, I also believe there is usable energy in PM's somehow, and I reckon the government scientists know it !
Here's another experiment just done where the NdFeB magnets were switched with large Ferrite magnets. The same type of 5 mill white paper was used, and used electrometer to measure voltage,
First, 30mV. Remained relatively constant except with a *slow* decline.
Reversed the clips to see if the voltage flipped: -10mV. Remained relatively constant except with a *slow* decline.
Reversed again: 9mV. Remained relatively constant except with a *slow* decline.
Reversed again: -8mV. Remained relatively constant except with a *slow* decline.
Reversed again: 2mV. Remained relatively constant except with a *slow* decline.
As you can see, the polarity reversed, and with each reveral of the probe clip leads the voltage reversed, and also the voltage decreased by noticable amounts each time. So far this matches the diode & piezo behavior.
My best wild guess is that the NdFeB PM's are ~~ 5 Tesla, and the Ferrite magnets are ~~ 1 Tesla, but that could be way off.
The Ferrite magnets are rectangular, measuring 1.85 x 0.96" and 0.39" thick.
Regards,
Paul
Paul
sorry I could only find a 1uF or 2700uF capacitor so I went with 1uf, but I was not getting good readings with paper 17mV , so I decided to go back to the leaf, I needed a second one as the first one had already deteriorated, the new one produced 144mV, then I connected capacitor and voltage started to drop about 2 mV per second until the meter read 0 0.1
I will wait and see if there's any changes over time
cat
Hi Bulbz,
No, your DMM is not crappy! It's probably a nice one. It's just not an electrometer is all. You can always get that $8 INA116PA chip if you want an electrometer. Of course, it's not going to be rediculously & perfectly linear like a $4500 bran new Keithley electrometer, and will drift temperature wise faster than the Keithley, but for now all that doesn't matter. I mean, for now who cares if it's 0.353334 volts or 0.35 volts. You know what I mean?
Regards,
Paul
Paul
You might have missed my previous post, as we both posted simultaneously and we are now on a new page.
I have to go to dinner now so I will check back later on progress.
I found another forum tackling the same subject here is a link to the thread, I've got no time to read it now
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread358045/pg1
cat
Thanks powercat. I'll read through it. Have you read about the Linden experiment performed by Paul Baumann, the creator & inventor of the famous Testatika "free energy" device.
http://rimstar.org/sdenergy/testa/lindenexp.htm (http://rimstar.org/sdenergy/testa/lindenexp.htm)
Baumann showed 700 volts from the experiment that's on the same order we're doing, except a bit different. I really think this is legit, and IMO the electrochemical theory is out the door (read my recent experiment on moving the magnets around on different locations on the paper, and even flipping the magnet to other *unused* side.).
Baumann knows something we don't, the small final secret that bumps up the current. Getting good voltage levels is easy. The "free energy" community is almost there!
Regards,
Paul
Quote from: powercat on October 25, 2009, 12:58:36 PM
Paul
You might have missed my previous post, as we both posted simultaneously and we are now on a new page.
Okay, so it looks like you too are getting the decay results, no? IMO that's good news because our experiments show the same behavior. Same here, the more it's messed with, the lower the voltage tends to drop, regardless if the clip leads are rotated, move the magnets to different spot on paper, flip magnets to unused site. So IMO that explains away the electrochemical theory. And it also matches years of diode & piezo experiments that shows the component become disturbed and/or drained with use, but the always recover with rest.
Lets see if these recover over time as the diodes & piezos.
Paul
powercat,
I'm looking at the photo of your experiment, and it looks like your cap is in-series, no? It should be connected in parallel. Connect both leads of the cap to both sides of the magnet device (magnet & washer). Let it charge for awhile. Then quickly connect your meter to the cap to get a measurement.
Regards,
Paul
Quote from: PaulLowrance on October 25, 2009, 10:36:46 AM
teslaalset,
What did you use as an insulator? If you use something like paper or even wax paper then you might get at least a few millivolts.
... wait a minute. My meter when in 20Mohm Rin mode got 35mV, but some meters have only 1 to 2 Mohms Rin. One of my harbor freight meters is like 1Mohm. In that case, you should get a bit over 1mV. So maybe your insulation has to much resistance.
... Or maybe your metal washer is different. What kind of metal are you using? What type of magnet?
Thanks,
Paul
Paul, I used a Neo magnet 15x15x8 mm (quite strong!) and a iron washer of 20mm diamter. My paper was just ordinary dry paper of a notepad.
I think it's also possible to stack a few magnet/paper/washer combinations to build up higher voltage. I'll have it a go myself....
Quote from: PaulLowrance on October 25, 2009, 01:06:45 PM
Have you read about the Linden experiment performed by Paul Baumann, the creator & inventor of the famous Testatika "free energy" device.
http://rimstar.org/sdenergy/testa/lindenexp.htm (http://rimstar.org/sdenergy/testa/lindenexp.htm)
Baumann showed 700 volts from the experiment that's on the same order we're doing, except a bit different. I really think this is legit, and IMO the electrochemical theory is out the door (read my recent experiment on moving the magnets around on different locations on the paper, and even flipping the magnet to other *unused* side.).
Baumann knows something we don't, the small final secret that bumps up the current. Getting good voltage levels is easy. The "free energy" community is almost there!
Here's a quote from that page,
+++++++++++
The two engineers asked Vatti how the machine was working, and he started to explain the "principle." He said that in Nature, there are very fine particles and all going at random (fluctuation) and at an incredible speed. To control and have an advantage of this fact, one must find a means to "rectify" the flux.... He took a U-shaped magnet from the drawer and asked ____ to wind a normal installation wire on to the middle of the U-shape (Fig.1). The ends of the wire were kept at a certain length (____ said, maybe 3 feet each.) The very ends were stripped off the insulation and galvanicly connected, thus forming a loop. This was placed on the table (what was underneath?) (Fig.2). Paul Baumann took two small metal plates and put them together with some paper in between (Fig.3) This was like a flat capacitor. Now he placed this "sandwich," holding it with his fingers in the "jaw" of the Magnet, i.e. between the poles. After a short trial to find the best position, he asked the engineer to put the probes of his voltmeter onto the plates. ____'s surprise: there was a voltage of
700 volts indicated! P.B. said, "When you understand this, you know how it works. This is just the beginning."
+++++++++++
This is amazing. IMO this 700V experiment is legit. I'll try to replicate this if the parts are available. It's too bad this highly spiritual community that has the Testatika does not want to give the details of this technology because they're afraid humanity will use it for destruction. I disagree, this technology is the cleanest, green, reusable energy source known.
Paul
Quote from: PaulLowrance on October 25, 2009, 12:45:03 PM
Here's another experiment just done where the NdFeB magnets were switched with large Ferrite magnets. The same type of 5 mill white paper was used, and used electrometer to measure voltage,
First, 30mV. Remained relatively constant except with a *slow* decline.
Reversed the clips to see if the voltage flipped: -10mV. Remained relatively constant except with a *slow* decline.
Reversed again: 9mV. Remained relatively constant except with a *slow* decline.
Reversed again: -8mV. Remained relatively constant except with a *slow* decline.
Reversed again: 2mV. Remained relatively constant except with a *slow* decline.
As you can see, the polarity reversed, and with each reveral of the probe clip leads the voltage reversed, and also the voltage decreased by noticable amounts each time. So far this matches the diode & piezo behavior.
My best wild guess is that the NdFeB PM's are ~~ 5 Tesla, and the Ferrite magnets are ~~ 1 Tesla, but that could be way off.
The Ferrite magnets are rectangular, measuring 1.85 x 0.96" and 0.39" thick.
Regards,
Paul
After letting the above ferrite magnet experiment sit for awhile undisturbed, I just tested it, and it's up to 63mV. :)
Paul
Quote from: powercat on October 25, 2009, 06:59:48 AM
Hi teslaalset
I use multiple paper layers the mV goes down
I don't have any wax paper
Hi Cherryman
I tried it with a leaf :o 180 mV :o
The problem is a leaf will deteriorate.
I don't take sugar so I will have to get some from a neighbour,
if you have any more info please share.
cat
I'm sorry i don't have more info. I was just thinking a little along.. outside the box..
As paper is made of wood... so it might be in a thing like celstructure ..
Or crystals .. sugar
Maybe it is the water.. Then you have to take in count the air moist level at your place of experiment! That could explain even some minor regenerating..
On the other hand.,. it doesn't explain the plastic reading (Unless there was a high air moist level)
Anyway.. I will follow this topic with intrest.
* philosophical mode : When you think of it.. creating free energy is almost like creating life... *
Well this is interesting. Another experiment, took metal two bolts (steel, magnetic), placed them together separated with white 5mill thick paper. These bolts were used in previous magnetic experiments, so they have some residual magnetic flux, probably a few hundred gauss. So all we have now is just two metal steel bolts separated by paper, and two clip leads connected, one to each bolt. The electrometer showed ~ 7mV. I took a long NdFeB magnet, 2.9" long, and 0.8" square, and placed it about 3" away from the right bolt. The volt went up to about 30mV. Then the NdFeB was moved to about 1.5" away to the left bolt, and the volt flew to the other polarity to nearly -90mV (negative voltage).
BTW, don't ever try to measure a large NdFeB magnet with metal calipers!!! I just slice on my finger about half inch wide deep cut.
This experiment is very inconclusive, and can't say it's due to the magnetic field itself. I still question if the magnetic field is related, or if it's due to magnetic field, then it's probably far more complex then we think.
It's been sitting about 10 minutes now without the long NdFeB magnet near it, and it's decayed to about 10mV. Is the magnet doing something? Is the magnet building up a stream or flow of something that remains flowing through the material for awhile? This reminds me of pyramid stuff.
I have to go clean up a bathroom counter now that's spattered with blood. Be careful with these magnets.
Regards,
Paul
Just now the two nuts separated by dry paper was less than 1mV. And the two Ferrite magnets separated by dry paper is now up to 80mV.
What I'm doing is letting the parts sit undisturbed without the clip leads. So it's not connected to anything. And then every so often I'll connect the electrometer clip leads to take a quick measurement. As comparison, most diodes are so sensitive that if I took more than 1 measurement every two days that it will begin to slowly become disturbed. Piezos on the other hand seem far more powerful in that they can take a lot more abuse; i.e., measurements. We'll have to see how the magnets hold up. So far they seem more sensitive than the piezo, but better than the diodes.
Paul
Just thinking out load here, maybe one aspect that produces the DC voltage is caused by the magnetic field flowing through a *change* in material from conductor to insulator. IOW, various esoteric sources claim that substance that we are unaware of flow through the magnetic line, and perhaps the sudden change from flowing from the metal to the insulator causes a slight interaction with matter.
Paul
I have now done my Cap Test the way you suggested Paul, before I connected the 400v 1uF cap I checked the voltage coming from the magnet 148mV [With leaf]
I waited for about 15 minutes then quickly disconnected the cap and got 3.5mV,
and yes I did remember to check it was empty before starting.
AboveTopSecret forum
there was talk about using wax paper or polyethylene as I have no wax paper I used some
polyethylene, I tested with four different types though none of them would produce more than about 7mV.
a member on the forum was claiming there is a thread over here ::) I can't find it
Quote from AboveTopSecret forum
If you go to overunity.com, you will see that they have already started running LED's off of my Magnet Battery for FREE.
Yes there IS such thing as free energy.
You see... ALL ENERGY IS FREE. You just need to know how to trap it, and circulate it. When you do that, you have electricity. The Magnet Battery never runs out, because not matter how many electrons you pull from it, the "protons" automaticaly gain the electrons from the Earth and the atmosphere!
on 31-5-2008 @ 12:21 AM by ALLis0NE
==============================
cat
@all
can anyone get this download to work ?
http://www.free-energy.tk/magnet-array-in-series-overunity-com.html
if you scroll down a bit you will see this.
magnet array in series. overunity.com
testing
the theory of using wet paper between the magnet and the keeper induces a charge. seeing if we can measure current.
Read the whole article here.
==============================
click on where it says here , my download seemed to get stuck on the last bit
cat
Edit
if you click on News or links or about us at the top of page you will be back at this forum
@all
I few things to keep in mind first the magnet keeper , it cancels the magnetic current around the magnet and concentrate it in the keeper .
Test should show current providing that some insulation between the magnet and keeper is installed . I could not find the link where i the test was conducted, sorry .
But it used a iron magnet with the paint scratched off at the top of the U(to connect the meter) shape , insulating paper between the magnet and keeper (the second meter probe is connected to the keeper).
Since the the magnetic current around the U shaped magnet is canceled and concentrated in the keeper is it still considered stationary ?
You can test the magnet and magnet with keeper on old monitor of tv screen , to see the dramatic change.
Second of all .
This is really not unlike Roy J Meyers absorber , he used zinc and air insulation , he did not have neo's north and south orientation may be less relevant but he dose look like a dual system , both of them working in opposite direction .
http://www.rexresearch.com/meyers/meyers.htm
@all
I have found some ...
Quote from: powercat on October 25, 2009, 06:11:22 PM
the theory of using wet paper between the magnet and the keeper induces a charge. seeing if we can measure current.
sounds galvanic.
@all,
Update of the rest of today's experiments. Part of this effect might be due to magnets, but at least a good portion of it in some of the experiments is not due to magnets. Also, I do not believe it is due to electrochemical reactions, or electrostatic (from friction), or any effect known to conventional physics, but hopefully tomorrow we'll see.
I just finished some good testing of two Aluminum plates separated by white paper, no magnets. Using the electrometer, the voltages can range from 100mV to over 400mV. I tried rubbing the paper and Al plates with different materials, friction, and it made no different in the voltage. Friction will produce high voltages, but it's extremely high impedance. The resistance of the paper ranges from a few hundred mega ohms to 1/2 giga ohm, which in terms of insulation resistance is almost nothing.
Also I reversed each part, one at a time. First the paper, then each Al plate. This made no difference in the voltage polarity. I placed the Al plates in a magnetic field, and did not see any noticeable difference in voltage.
A 10Mohm resistor was placed across it, and the voltage dropped to 2.5mV, which comes to 250pA. After that, everything was turned off, and the Al plates were shorted to help decrease the time required for the device to reach a stabilized DC current.
So hopefully by tomorrow the current will have stabilized, ... and I'll be crossing my fingers that it will be the mysterious 10pA DC! ;D That will make my month!! If it's the mysterious 10pA constant, then it means this is caused by the same effect as the diodes & piezos.
The piezos, and even more so the diodes have been tested extensively against known effects such as electrochemicals, which it is not. Regardless of how many diodes are placed in parallel, the current always stabilizes at 10pA DC.
Regards,
Paul
Yesterdays experiment of using plastic instead of paper produced 0.36 volts. So it's difficult to explain this as being electrochemcial. Also, yesterday after the voltage decayed down to almost nothing, moving all of the parts (magnet and clip leads) to a different location on the paper and also flipping the magnet to the other side (a fresh side) did *not* revitalize the voltage-- the voltage remained low. If it was due to electrochemical, then moving the parts to new & fresh areas should produce the normal voltage again, which it did not.
If tomorrow it's down to 10pA, then in all likelihood it caused by the internal electric field that is produced when to different materials come in contact. Of course this electric field does not directly produce DC current, but it is believed that this intense electric field causes an effect that results in DC current. As to why remains to be seen. It could be anything from Quantum tunneling to a ZPE effect to something completely unknown.
BTW, diodes have this intense internal electric field at the junction. Piezos have an intense electric field.
Paul
Quote from: PaulLowrance on October 25, 2009, 10:11:08 AM
Same thing, our statements are the same. A moving field. It's all relative as you say.
...
Certainly not. A field does not "move". A movement means that something goes or flows from here to there.
A "moving" magnetic field is just an illusion similar to a rotating light spot in a room: the light does not move on the walls, photons only move but radially, not in the apparent direction where the spot goes. The intensity of the light on the walls is simply changing with time giving the illusion of movement along the wall surface.
The apparent speed of the spot (or of a "moving" field) can even exceed the speed of light because no matter/energy movement is involved. This speed is fictitious. It has strictly nothing to do with v in the Lorentz equations. It is irrelevant for the description of a conductor moving in a field. The speed of the conductor moving in a field is only the speed relative to the observer. It is not a question of relative speed between the field and the conductor, this idea of field speed is outside of "conventional physics".
Quote from: Mk1 on October 25, 2009, 09:07:00 PM
@all
I have found some ...
mmmhhh
http://www.rexresearch.com/gary/gary1.htm
Quote from: exnihiloest on October 26, 2009, 06:07:53 AM
Certainly not. A field does not "move". A movement means that something goes or flows from here to there.
A "moving" magnetic field is just an illusion similar to a rotating light spot in a room: the light does not move on the walls, photons only move but radially, not in the apparent direction where the spot goes. The intensity of the light on the walls is simply changing with time giving the illusion of movement along the wall surface.
The apparent speed of the spot (or of a "moving" field) can even exceed the speed of light because no matter/energy movement is involved. This speed is fictitious. It has strictly nothing to do with v in the Lorentz equations. It is irrelevant for the description of a conductor moving in a field. The speed of the conductor moving in a field is only the speed relative to the observer. It is not a question of relative speed between the field and the conductor, this idea of field speed is outside of "conventional physics".
We're talking about conventional physics. Your above statement is not according to conventional physics.
Conventional physics adhere's to the following Einstein statement, "Only
relative motion is observable; there is no absolute standard of rest."
Another interesting subject is rotating fields, which also move,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_field#Rotating_magnetic_fields
Paul
This morning the current was 79pA. Just 69 away. ;D
Paul
Here's an outline, with some modifications & additions, of the past several days worth of experiments:
http://globalfreeenergy.info/2009/10/26/magnetic-experiment-updates/ (http://globalfreeenergy.info/2009/10/26/magnetic-experiment-updates/)
Regards,
Paul
I should mention that the surface of one of the Al plates is definitely different. Perhaps it's looks different because it has a rougher surface? Perhaps it has a thicker oxidized layer? Anyhow, the recent experiment is considered a MIM diode, Metal, Insulator, Metal.
Paul
The goal of recent experiments,
http://globalfreeenergy.info/2009/10/26/goal-of-recent-experiments/ (http://globalfreeenergy.info/2009/10/26/goal-of-recent-experiments/)
The 10pA may not seem important, but it's extremely important.
Regards,
Paul
A bit of concern here. It's now at 21pA. A rapid sudden drop:
http://globalfreeenergy.info/2009/10/26/homemade-diode-experiment-update/
Paul
Ah, it's looking better. So far it's looking like good news,
http://globalfreeenergy.info/2009/10/26/homemade-diode-update-2/
Paul
Awesome news! ;D
http://globalfreeenergy.info/2009/10/26/homemade-diode-update-3/
Regards,
Paul
Congratulations Pual ;D
I know you've been working on this for a long time,
can you let us know your thoughts on how you plan to produce more power for every day use ?
cat ;)
Quote from: powercat on October 26, 2009, 07:08:50 PM
Congratulations Pual ;D
I know you've been working on this for a long time,
can you let us know your thoughts on how you plan to produce more power for every day use ?
By isolating the fundamental effect, which will allow us to focus only on that effect at hand. Once solved, then the 10pA current issue will be solved, and we'll get usable current. The voltage is already in the usable range.
Once the issue is solved, then it's a matter of mixing the correct materials together, place in correct electric field, heat to proper temperature, let it recover for a week or so, and it produces usable power. This is basically the same end goal as Marcus Reid & Hutchison, except they're taking more of the Thomas Edison approach of trying everything till they get lucky.
Regards,
Paul
I have seen the John Hutchinson videos on YouTube and sometimes people do get lucky.
Do you have an idea on how much time it will take you to produces usable power ?
cat
@Paul,
this is really exciting and worthwhile work your doing, I am enjoying following your progress. I am not one to often give out compliments but well done (you only have to read my other posts to see what I mean)
Kind Regards
Mark Dansie
This may be very similar, but without the magnets
http://www.scribd.com/doc/7535805/eBook-Free-Energy-Capacitors-That-Recharge-Themselves
Magluvin
Quote from: PaulLowrance on October 26, 2009, 09:45:06 AM
We're talking about conventional physics. Your above statement is not according to conventional physics.
Conventional physics adhere's to the following Einstein statement, "Only relative motion is observable; there is no absolute standard of rest."
Another interesting subject is rotating fields, which also move,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_field#Rotating_magnetic_fields
Paul
"Only
relative motion is observable; there is no absolute standard of rest."
Yes. But the relative motion is not the motion between conductor and "field" . It is the relative motion between the conductor (moving in a field) and the observer seeing the moving conductor.
One of the numerous proofs is the Faraday disk, where the "observer" is the voltmeter connecting the axle to the rim. It doesn't a matter the magnet to be rotating or not.
Thanks for the comments! This research might be like the tortoise, slow ... but sure. :)
Powercat, you asked when to expect usable power levels. Awhile back I made a rough graph, ... emphasis on *rough* because it's based on the extrapolation of four data points, but it makes a rough prediction when the research will reach that level -->
http://globalfreeenergy.info/2009/09/16/power-graph-of-research/
So if we extrapolate, the graph reaches the ten watt mark by ~ July 2010. Understandibly the graph is not going to be accurate, but it might give a rough idea.
We'll see.
Paul
This morning was good, as the device was producing 9.7pA!!! This looks confirmed. It's difficult to believe that any dissimilar materials thrown together will work. The issue is making sure the net circuit resistance is low enough so it can produce the 10pA.
Even better yet, the size of the element does not limit. So it could be microscopic particles from a powder, where each particle can produce ~ 10pA (at usable voltage levels). An example of this is where microscopic diodes such as from Skyworks Inc. (~ 10 um radius junction) also produce 10pA.
Now it seems the final goal is in trying to find what type of isolation it wants so we can parallel the elements to produce usable current levels. It's probably electrical isolation. If it's only AC noise, as in Johnson noise, then inductance would work. In this case, mixing powdered iron in the mix could work.
PL
Looks like the homemade diode is still trying to settle down : http://globalfreeenergy.info/2009/10/27/homemade-diode-update-5/
Paul
from what i read it is going good :) congrats!
Maybe i have some idea's u will find interesting to experiment with in ur setup.
I was wondering if the Earth electric field is not interacting with the setup. Do u always place the junction in parallel to the Earth surface? Have u tried to turn it around to other angles?
In my feeling the Earth's efield and round magnet make kind of a good conditions for concentration of free flowing electrons in some spots of the setup. measurements may be different for center and the edges of ether side of the junction. N-S orientation of the junction may compete in some angles with the Earth's mfield too.
Another thing would be the earthing test. Someone here suggested the recovery of the charge from the air or surrounding. Maybe u could try to earth either of the junction sides. It may be that diodes recover slower because the area that comes in contact with the surrounding is small to recover for lost charge (during the measurement), in that sense magnet setup would regenerate faster because of its greater surface.
just a bunch of thoughts :)