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I FIRST FOUND A PICTURE OF BESSLERS WHEEL IN NOV 07
FOR FIVE DAYS I DID NOT REALLY DO MUCH OF ANYTHING ELSE OTHER THAN ATTEMPT TO UNDERSTAND IT
NOT EVEN SLEEP
MY FIRST IMPRESSIONS WERE GROSSLY INACURATE BUT I DETERMINED THIS TO BE THE CASE, AND FORMED A NEW IDEA
AGAIN AND AGAIN  TILL I WAS OFF IN THE GERMAN ARCHIVES READING 'MACHINEN TRACTAE' IN ITS ORIGINAL FORM
AT SOME POINT IT DAWNED ON ME THAT HE HAD NO INTENTION OF REVEALING THE METHOD IN HIS OWN WRITINGS
  AND SO I TURNED AT LAST TO THE DESCRIPTIONS OF THOSE WHO WITNESSED IT FOR THEMSELVES
AFTER RESOLVING ITEM AFTER ITEM I FINALLY FOUND MYSELF WITH A FULL UNDERSTANDING OF THE INTERIOR OF THE DEVICE
ITS NOT COMPLICATED BUT IT MIGHT BE A BIT BEYOND ME TO BUILD IT
IM INTRESTED IN WORKING WITH SOMEONE WHO IS ABLE TO ASSIST IN THE CONSTRUCTION
TO BE SPECIFIC.. THERE ARE ONLY TWO POINTS THAT I DO NOT HAVE AN EXACT FINAL DECRIPTION OF
AND THEY WILL HAVE TO BE RESOLVED IN THE FINAL STAGE OF BUILDING
THESE TWO POINTS BEING 
1]THE EXACT POSITION OF ATTACHMENT FOR ONE END OF THE SPRING
2]THE EXACT METHOD OF ATTACHMENT OF THE OTHER END OF THE SPRING (EITHER CENTERED AND BALLANCED OR OFFCENTER AND FUNCTIONING AS FULCRUM)
IM TEMPTED TO JUST MAKE A VIDEO AND BLURT IT ALL OUT BUT THE IDEA OFF PASSING ON WHAT MIGHT BE EARNED DOSENT SIT WELL WITH ME ANY MORE THAN IT DID WITH JOHANN BESSLER HIMSELF
A FEW POINTS THAT IM SURE THOSE WHO ARE ON THE RIGHT PATH HAVE ALREADY CONSIDERED..
THE WHEEL WILL FUNCTION WITH ONLY ONE SET OF TWO WEIGHTS
BUT IT WILL MOVE QUICKLY DOWNWARD THEN VERY NEARLY STOP AS IT RETURNS BACK TO THE UPRIGHT POSITION
YOU HAVE TO BE VERY CLEVER TO CAUSE ONE WEIGHT TO LIFT THE OTHER
THINK ABOUT IT
THIS IS AS DIRECT AS I CAN BE
AND FOR SOME IT SHOULD BE A CLEAR EXPLANATION
THE DEVICE IS EFFECTIVLY A MOBIUS - JACOBS LADDER THAT IS SO VERY NEARLY PERFECTLY BALLANCED
THAT THE ENERGY STORED IN A SPRING IS ALL THAT IS NEEDED TO COMPLETE THE CIRCUT OVER AND OVER AGAIN
IN EFFECT.. ITS 'FUEL' IS THE STORED KINETIC ENERGY IN THE METAL OF THE SPRING
THE DEVICE IS NOT PERPETUAL; IT WILL ONLY RUN UNTIL THE SPRING WEARS TO THE POINT IT CAN NO LONGER 'RESET' THE DEVICE
(THE PENDULM ON THE EXTERIOR IS A GOVERNOR)
{THE NON SELF-STARTING DOUBLE THICKNESS REVERSIBLE WHEEL IS SIMPLY TWO EQUAL CONSTRUCTIONS OF 'EIGHT PAIRS OF SETS OF WEIGHTS' SET OPPOSED TO EACH OTHER}

From Bessler's apologia Poetica: 

A wheel appears - is it really a wheel, for it does not have a normal rim.
It revolves, but without other wheels inside or outside,
and without weights, wind, or springs.

Do you believe your idea will work without springs?

I would recommend Ralph Lortie if you are looking for a builder. He can be found over at Besslerwheel.com

He will keep it confidential.

Unless you have a working wheel, you may want to put a question mark after the Bessler Wheel Solved.

Good luck.

circle

Welcome to the forum.
I agree with overtaker.
>>Unless you have a working wheel, you may want to put a question mark after the Bessler Wheel Solved.<<
Ralph Lortie, would be an excellent person to send it to have a evaluation. He is my mentor on helping others in this quest.

PM me and I can send you his email.

Alan

Yes, but don't go into besslerwheel.com saying you have solved the wheel, they will eat you alive! :'(

Don't show the idea to noone!!!! Don't even trust your own family! They will steal it from you!!!

Go to different machine shops and make them build the parts individually. Then you can assemble it yourself and patent it ASAP! You have already made a big mistake by talking about it in public without a patent. I will repeat don't show or talk about it to anyone, they will steal it from you. Both ABHammer and Ralph will convince you to built it for you and then patent it on their names!!!! You will die poor, and your family will leave you for your foolish mistake, while they will become millionaires.

So after 5 years when you have your patent and wheel come and talk about it, for now you must disappear completely before your idea is stolen!!!

PS: Be careful on this forum. There are many hackers that can hack your computer and steal your files. It's better to not use the internet anymore untill you have a patent.

Quote from: broli on November 02, 2009, 01:20:11 PM
Don't show the idea to noone!!!! Don't even trust your own family! They will steal it from you!!!

Go to different machine shops and make them build the parts individually. Then you can assemble it yourself and patent it ASAP! You have already made a big mistake by talking about it in public without a patent. I will repeat don't show or talk about it to anyone, they will steal it from you. Both ABHammer and Ralph will convince you to built it for you and then patent it on their names!!!! You will die poor, and your family will leave you for your foolish mistake, while they will become millionaires.

So after 5 years when you have your patent and wheel come and talk about it, for now you must disappear completely before your idea is stolen!!!

PS: Be careful on this forum. There are many hackers that can hack your computer and steal your files. It's better to not use the internet anymore untill you have a patent.

Nice bit of slander!!! broli!!! >:(
The one who wants everybody to give it away? Open source! open source!
(if people check back on broli's past post they will see this)
Now you have given someone advice to patent? This is a change. But if you think an engineer/machinist will not figure something out when he is building the parts, you are fooling yourself.

circle

broli does not like Ralph and myself for we have promoted protection and patenting, while he was for open sourcing. We know a runner is bigger than all of us.

Some of the advice that broli gave is useful. I don't keep my stuff on the computer anymore either. But I do have some old stuff on it just for the hackers. LOL

There is no guaranty what you have will work. This is the law of probability of the quest. I have had several wheels that seemed that they were going to run but they would slow down and stop. My biggest breakthrough was figuring out what causes a wheel not to run.

All and all it is up to you.

Alan

What's wrong mister AB hammer, don't like the taste of your own soup???...maybe I added to much spice.

Circle be aware of these crooks, they will steal everything you have. They will be your best friends until you give them your life's work on a silver platter, they'll tell you it won't work but the very same day run to the patent office and rip you off big time. There's no way you should trust something this important to anyone. This invention can make you the most important and richest human in history so don't go naively giving it away to people you have never met or seen.

The only friend you need now is the patent attorney.

OK Broli,  If you are going to call someone a crook, you better back it up!  Show the PROOF that they are crooks or STFU!!!!!

You have to be mentally deranged to blindly trust a virtual person with the biggest invention since the wheel. Isn't it funny how all kind of people suddenly ask you to "trust" them with your invention so they can "verify" it for you, people you never even met in person. Only a baby can be that naive. There's a reason why Bessler was very secretive, he knew the crooks would do anything to steal his precious invention. Luckly today we have a patent office which can protect these precious inventions before some crook gets his hands on them.

Quote from: broli on November 02, 2009, 03:06:59 PM
What's wrong mister AB hammer, don't like the taste of your own soup???...maybe I added to much spice.

Circle be aware of these crooks, they will steal everything you have. They will be your best friends until you give them your life's work on a silver platter, they'll tell you it won't work but the very same day run to the patent office and rip you off big time. There's no way you should trust something this important to anyone. This invention can make you the most important and richest human in history so don't go naively giving it away to people you have never met or seen.

The only friend you need now is the patent attorney.

broli
I don't put poison in my soup.

You must not be getting laid with that attitude and have to lie and take it out on us? Are you a JOKE of the worst kind? Slandering, telling lies and you have nothing to back up your claims. You are doing nothing but trying to hurt us with slanderous claims, while you use your poisons to manipulate the situation. 

Circle

We are here to help those who need help with their projects. We have made no money from this work. Honor, integrity, and confidentiality. If it is not a runner you loose nothing. If it is a runner it depends on what brought it about. For example, if we build and we do not have to add nothing nothing but the build, we expect only a small percentage and the honor of the build under your design. Now, if we have to do redesign to create it we will expect more depending, and a full partnership would be the highest we go. We give credit were credit is due.

Quote from: broli on November 02, 2009, 04:11:15 PM
You have to be mentally deranged to blindly trust a virtual person with the biggest invention since the wheel. Isn't it funny how all kind of people suddenly ask you to "trust" them with your invention so they can "verify" it for you, people you never even met in person. Only a baby can be that naive. There's a reason why Bessler was very secretive, he knew the crooks would do anything to steal his precious invention. Luckly today we have a patent office which can protect these precious inventions before some crook gets his hands on them.

Overtaker

broli's new views are like fingernails on a chalk board. Hollering patent after so long of hollering open source? And topping it all off with a heavy dose of slander to hurt honest people.  I wonder what it will cost to start a slander suit over in Belgian from the US. If he was in the US it would already be on its way. No one should have to put up with this unwarranted crap.

broli

For your information, several of us converse on the phone on a regular bases, and when one of us has the final breakthrough we will not leave our friends behind. Stick that in your pipe and smoke it and maybe you will see some light.

Yeah of course, con artists have accomplices aka shills I can bet you won't leave them behind after the deed is done. Sorry to ruin the fun but this is one mark you won't be fooling.

Circle these people have been looking for the secret for decades. They will do anything to bring it out in there name, including fooling gullible innocent people. Leave the internet and don't mention it to anyone anymore until your invention is secure .

Quote from: broli on November 02, 2009, 01:20:11 PM

Both ABHammer and Ralph will convince you to built it for you and then patent it on their names!!!! You will die poor, and your family will leave you for your foolish mistake, while they will become millionaires.

Broli,

What proof do you have?

I have exchanged many emails and conversations with ABHammer, and many emails with Ralph. I find them both to be hardworking, honest, very knowledgeable and of high integrity. If they are millionaire thieves, they certainly hide it well.

Regards, Larry     

Don't try to change the subject. I said these people will do anything to get the Bessler secret credit. I didn't say they were professional thieves. I have transcripts of the so called holy Ralph doing these "favors" for self interest.

broli; LOL LMAO You are afraid you are going to be left out. You have already burnt your bridge with them and now you are trying to slander them because you you don't have a chance. You are one sad case. I pity you.

Looks like the Bessler-rip-off-circus is in town. Why is it that every time the word Bessler is mentioned the same people come rushing in yelling "give to me me me"...

Circle don't fall for these tactics and only trust yourself, build it yourself, patent it yourself and sell it yourself. If these vultures get a hold of your idea you will be left with nothing.

Hmm,
I got a complain,
that ABHammer and Ralph want to convince people not to share
their ideas here and should go the patent way...

Please people, this is an open source forum and
ideas should be shared without patenting.

If you want to go the patent way, which does not bring you money,
but just will cost you money and you need to pay expensive lawyers to
defend your patent versus big corporations, you should go away from
this forum and spend your cash just on the lawyers, but this will
not help the world...

So please don´t try to convince people to patent anything here.
Many thanks.

Regards, Stefan.

Quote from: hartiberlin on November 02, 2009, 06:30:58 PM
Hmm,
I got a complain,
that ABHammer and Ralph want to convince people not to share
their ideas here and should go the patent way...

Please people, this is an open source forum and
ideas should be shared without patenting.

If you want to go the patent way, which does not bring you money,
but just will cost you money and you need to pay expensive lawyers to
defend your patent versus big corporations, you should go away from
this forum and spend your cash just on the lawyers, but this will
not help the world...

So please don´t try to convince people to patent anything here.
Many thanks.

Regards, Stefan.

I`m standing also for open source, you will never get a patent on a free energy device. Open sourcing can help everybody out and stick it to the man!!!

Quote from: hartiberlin on November 02, 2009, 06:30:58 PM
Hmm,
I got a complain,
that ABHammer and Ralph want to convince people not to share
their ideas here and should go the patent way...

Please people, this is an open source forum and
ideas should be shared without patenting.

If you want to go the patent way, which does not bring you money,
but just will cost you money and you need to pay expensive lawyers to
defend your patent versus big corporations, you should go away from
this forum and spend your cash just on the lawyers, but this will
not help the world...

So please don´t try to convince people to patent anything here.
Many thanks.

Regards, Stefan.

Hello Stefan

So broli sent you a complaint? I am sure it is him for Ralph hasn't even posted. Now you know I am more on the fence here. I promote as soon as patent pending, then expose it for everyone to who can build to build. This way it is protected and exposed. broli has crossed the line here with liable slander. Some of the worst I have ever heard. Then he sent you a complaint to cause more trouble.

@ Stefan,

Ralph Lortie here; please note the time stamp on this post.

I have just been made aware of this thread and its slanderous accusations.

For a man of your integrity and position, I am shocked  to see your post regarding alleged allegations regarding my character. You were however smart enough to compose it in a non-personal manner.

Broli is someone I ignore, which I believe any one with an IQ over 70 will do.

Consider the source and ignore him. His accusations have no basis, in fact I have not even posted on this topic. It was brought to my attention via a thread on Besslerwheel.com.

You wrote;

Quotebut this will not help the world...

Sorry but I disagree, patenting will help the world. Free sourcing ideas and innovation is the key provided by this forum, hopefully it will expedite the day we see such a machine.

Sharing ideas for collaborative mind merging and building is based on ones aptitude, empirical values,available resources, and mainly trust! It has nothing to do with patenting, that is at the inventors discretion.

I have and offer the skills, aptitude and resources to build designs for those that lack the requirements. I have offered this service on a confidential basis since 2002.  Having viewed many designs and built those which I felt questionable or viable. The results are returned to the submitter and it is at their discretion as to what they wish to do with it. I do not charge for this service and only ask for recognition and a monetary value on a contingency basis. No runner, no money, nothing lost but my time and resources.

You may recall a thread started on this forum by Peter Lindemann regarding his wheel design base on pendulums. It is now a known fact that I researched his design two years before he open sourced it here.   

For clarity I will attempt to explain why I believe patenting is the correct action to take;

If you literally free source the design, big money will jump on it, make a few changes and patent it. The energy will be sold to the consumer as "Green Renewable Energy" and end up paying more per kilowatt hour than they are paying for fossil fueled generation. I make this point using wind and solar as an example. I pay more for wind generated power than I do for hydro-electric, politics has managed to evade the acknowledgment that hydro is also a renewable power. For that I am thankful as I do not have to pay more per kilowatt block for wind power.   

The only consumer gaining an advantage due to free sourcing is those with skills and resource to build one for their own use. The average home owner will gain nothing except an increase in his monthly power bill. 

If the inventor were to patent the device thus keeping control he could sell for less, help others gain from the device and become the worlds most renown philanthropist.

Allegations placed on my character by broli are unfounded and open for legal dissertation under civil action known as a 'Tort'

I wish to thank all the members who have come to my defense over this issue.  My integrity stands and I will not let it falter.

Without realizing it, broli is getting the word out about me better than any advertising campaign I could imagine! :-)

Respectfully,

*Ralph Lortie
*note; no pseudonym required here.         

Circle,

I have spoke my piece and with all due respect I would like to see this thread returned to you and the subject you authored. I suggest ignoring broli as he is playing both ends hoping to come out in the middle.

Obviously we would all like to know more of your design and ideas. The path you choose will be of your own making. There are numerous members here with skills and aptitude for your collaborating needs.

If you think your design is worthy of a trial and error build and you do not have the resources to do so, simply find a builder here that you feel comfortable working with in a confidential manner.

Now I am going back to page 1 and review your opening post.

Ralph Lortie
 

Ralph the day you see a working wheel not invented but built by you, will be the day human greed peaks on this planet. "Trust me". Sure I'll trust a person who's obsession is the Bessler wheel for decades. Sure I'll trust a person who's main goal is to cash in on the invention so he can live happily ever after in his beach house. Sure I'll trust someone who repeats the fact that the energy cartel must loose all control so he can gain it, with his non existant lawyer army I must add.

You got the IQ thing wrong, there's no way an intelligent person would trust you. You say all you do is ask money if it works...wait what? So let me get this straight, you get the whole idea in your hands, become the first to built and test it, and then take it hostage by asking money for it? For someone supporting patents that's the most stupid suggestion I've heard.

Ralph you made yourself look like this imaginary emperor on the Internet but sadly you are just a poor old man who'll do anything to find the Bessler wheel. Including convincing gullible people to "trust" you in giving their invention to the holy pope that is known as ralph. You are not after sharing free energy with the world, you are in the wrong area for that. You are simply after bringing out the first perpetual motion wheel since Bessler on your own name.

Being exposed as the person you truly are can be slanderous indeed. Better luck next time.

ya'll bloodied his nose he probably wont be back.

Dave45; If this Ralph won't come back. It would be due the this broli is not worth his time. Would you talk to what you left in the toilet? or just flush it? If you noticed this Ralph never talked to broli. LOL

I have this thread bookmarked, probably won't post much unless circle decides to expand on his design or Stefan has a response to my input.

IMO we have probably seen the last of 'circle' at least on this thread. I have objective reasoning to believe he will go 'private'

broli turned what could have been a constructive thread in to meaningless allegations and slander to appease his personal vendetta. I am surprised at how fast he changed from an adamant 'free sourcer' to patenting, only to support his personal allegations. I am sure that we have not heard the last of him.

What is funny about this is that Stefan mentions Alan and I by name for promoting patent procedures while the alleged complainer is vividly doing the same thing!  ???

Ralph

craZy wrote:

QuoteI`m standing also for open source, you will never get a patent on a free energy device. Open sourcing can help everybody out and stick it to the man!!!

Sorry but you are in error: There is definitely a sub class for gravity and Perpetual Motion devices in the PTO registrar. The catch is, you must present a working model before the Patent Appeals Board providing  it gets rejected by the examiner receiving your submitted application.

This is interesting, shame the subject isnt progressing, using just two weights to keep a wheel moving seems fine to me because if two cant do it then adding more weight will just make the wheel heavier, maybe part of it works like MT 18 except that when the weight bends the spring in on the ascending side, another weight lifts the spring fulcrum up to regain the distance loss so when the spring flips the weight up it just about arrives back at the starting point ready to repeat...

Just a thought

Alex

Well as far as i see all technology has been sent by good god..it is too obvious to me by keely and teslas and some of einsteins comments.

10,000s of this stuff and really yea have been suppressed and yea all deals with the switching technique.

If any of you have done the impotep fan which deals with the switching technique, please realise it is in every and everything interacts with the vaccum and the vaccum is infinity and is instantaneous and is without beginning and is without end and that is all there is too it.

You can argue all day but what you don't know is that this world is ran by extremely evil people in the vatican ;).

It deals with the magic 3 in everything, metaphorically and had a debunker come in with his mind microphone and told me to shut up because i was open minded but realistic.

These videos like the Mikovic gravity wheel is acting like that switch you see in circuits and if you look closely you will see an incomeing force and that is why it runs and the person who replicated it, did it correctly and really no he did not edit the video frame bit by bit and the sound which is just too unrealistic and sad and no, extremely unlikely anyone would bother with that when people like this are grumpy about it.

But to tell you the truth about the void energy from the vaccum it is less than nothing, yet more than anything is, just like those spins...these spins are the secret as to how everything has the power to create mass out of nothing but yea and please what is sustaining your monitor and everything around you has an unbalanced force sustaining it which is mass free.

You have to study the very old stuff because really i avoid todays dumbed down nature like the plague.

Quote from: Alexioco on November 06, 2009, 12:54:41 PM
This is interesting, shame the subject isnt progressing, using just two weights to keep a wheel moving seems fine to me because if two cant do it then adding more weight will just make the wheel heavier, maybe part of it works like MT 18 except that when the weight bends the spring in on the ascending side, another weight lifts the spring fulcrum up to regain the distance loss so when the spring flips the weight up it just about arrives back at the starting point ready to repeat...

The subject may not be progressing on this forum. As moderator if you review what has transpired you can see why.

'Circle' made one post regarding his design, the response was not what he expected, he has simply been driven into deeper apprehension of who to trust and what path to follow.

It is my opinionated guess that we have not heard the last from him. It will take time, he has some major decisions to face, decisions that he should consider larger than any member here can influence.

Ralph Lortie

http://arracheenterprise.web.officelive.com/default.aspx

Quote from: circle on November 01, 2009, 04:54:32 PM
I FIRST FOUND A PICTURE OF BESSLERS WHEEL IN NOV 07
FOR FIVE DAYS I DID NOT REALLY DO MUCH OF ANYTHING ELSE OTHER THAN ATTEMPT TO UNDERSTAND IT
NOT EVEN SLEEP
MY FIRST IMPRESSIONS WERE GROSSLY INACURATE BUT I DETERMINED THIS TO BE THE CASE, AND FORMED A NEW IDEA
AGAIN AND AGAIN  TILL I WAS OFF IN THE GERMAN ARCHIVES READING 'MACHINEN TRACTAE' IN ITS ORIGINAL FORM
AT SOME POINT IT DAWNED ON ME THAT HE HAD NO INTENTION OF REVEALING THE METHOD IN HIS OWN WRITINGS
  AND SO I TURNED AT LAST TO THE DESCRIPTIONS OF THOSE WHO WITNESSED IT FOR THEMSELVES
AFTER RESOLVING ITEM AFTER ITEM I FINALLY FOUND MYSELF WITH A FULL UNDERSTANDING OF THE INTERIOR OF THE DEVICE
ITS NOT COMPLICATED BUT IT MIGHT BE A BIT BEYOND ME TO BUILD IT
IM INTRESTED IN WORKING WITH SOMEONE WHO IS ABLE TO ASSIST IN THE CONSTRUCTION
TO BE SPECIFIC.. THERE ARE ONLY TWO POINTS THAT I DO NOT HAVE AN EXACT FINAL DECRIPTION OF
AND THEY WILL HAVE TO BE RESOLVED IN THE FINAL STAGE OF BUILDING
THESE TWO POINTS BEING 
1]THE EXACT POSITION OF ATTACHMENT FOR ONE END OF THE SPRING
2]THE EXACT METHOD OF ATTACHMENT OF THE OTHER END OF THE SPRING (EITHER CENTERED AND BALLANCED OR OFFCENTER AND FUNCTIONING AS FULCRUM)
IM TEMPTED TO JUST MAKE A VIDEO AND BLURT IT ALL OUT BUT THE IDEA OFF PASSING ON WHAT MIGHT BE EARNED DOSENT SIT WELL WITH ME ANY MORE THAN IT DID WITH JOHANN BESSLER HIMSELF
A FEW POINTS THAT IM SURE THOSE WHO ARE ON THE RIGHT PATH HAVE ALREADY CONSIDERED..
THE WHEEL WILL FUNCTION WITH ONLY ONE SET OF TWO WEIGHTS
BUT IT WILL MOVE QUICKLY DOWNWARD THEN VERY NEARLY STOP AS IT RETURNS BACK TO THE UPRIGHT POSITION
YOU HAVE TO BE VERY CLEVER TO CAUSE ONE WEIGHT TO LIFT THE OTHER
THINK ABOUT IT
THIS IS AS DIRECT AS I CAN BE
AND FOR SOME IT SHOULD BE A CLEAR EXPLANATION
THE DEVICE IS EFFECTIVLY A MOBIUS - JACOBS LADDER THAT IS SO VERY NEARLY PERFECTLY BALLANCED
THAT THE ENERGY STORED IN A SPRING IS ALL THAT IS NEEDED TO COMPLETE THE CIRCUT OVER AND OVER AGAIN
IN EFFECT.. ITS 'FUEL' IS THE STORED KINETIC ENERGY IN THE METAL OF THE SPRING
THE DEVICE IS NOT PERPETUAL; IT WILL ONLY RUN UNTIL THE SPRING WEARS TO THE POINT IT CAN NO LONGER 'RESET' THE DEVICE
(THE PENDULM ON THE EXTERIOR IS A GOVERNOR)
{THE NON SELF-STARTING DOUBLE THICKNESS REVERSIBLE WHEEL IS SIMPLY TWO EQUAL CONSTRUCTIONS OF 'EIGHT PAIRS OF SETS OF WEIGHTS' SET OPPOSED TO EACH OTHER}

Correct me if I'm wrong but his wheel works like the following:

Two weights start to fall CW from the top of the wheel, the weights swing past the 6 o clock position and then start to climb up the other side of the wheel then the spring that is attached to the weight flings the weight up with the assistance of the second weight at the 10 o clock position covering that extra bit of height (10 - 12) that weights normally don't reach without this assistance allowing the cycle to repeat but with a stronger impulse each time?
If this is correct then it brings up a contradiction with a claim made by Bessler saying: "On one side it is heavy and full; on the other empty and light, just as it should be."

Alex

Hello,

I just registered and read the first paragraph of the agreement and broli has violated the agreement.

Why is he still here?

I was going to share some of my ideas about the wheel and let others use them as they see fit.
These Ideas might have been tried before I do not know.
But after reading this thread and seeing the defense of slander I have reconsidered sharing anything.

People accuse others of what they are guilty of, EVERY TIME.

If you have ever seen someone accuse someone else of something that isn't true, the person doing the accusing is actually tattling on themselves.

This is true EVERY TIME. 

Knowing this, means I absolutely do not trust broli, and because of the defense of his violations of the agreement during registering, I do not trust the moderators either.

my ideas are so simple a child could build the thing once they saw a prototype.

I believe I will take the time to build my own wheel, and I might make a video of it to share. Of course if it works I won't be sharing any of the information here.

I have total disdain and contempt for people who think friendship trumps morality and integrity.

Odds are others have come very close to building a working prototype.
My advice is, SIMPLIFY THE DESIGN. You will end up succeeding.

If you over design it, it won't work.

"All truth passes through three stages. First it is ridiculed. Secondly, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident."

Ken,   You are quick!  It took me a lot longer to feel that way about Broli.

  If it is that simple then build it, find out if it works and then make an educated decision on what to do with it.   :)

Good luck!

Hi overtaker,

I just read the overunity prize PDF, and all I can do is laugh.

The rules state you must build 2 devices spend your own money to send Stefan one of your devices and then He "CLAIMS he will publish etc etc.

I don't believe this site promotes open source at all but I believe the owners of this site are trying to acquire the work of others for free then will run and steal the information.

The defense of the slander PROVES conclusively that they will compromise their integrity to defend a friend, THEY SURELY will compromise their integrity ( if they have any at all) to make a ton of money.

Why would anyone in their right mind send this nut Stefan ANYTHING?
Would you give away your work to this website to gain recognition on this website? I SURELY WON"T

As a matter of fact I wouldn't give these nutcases the time of day. I also suggest anyone else that is truly looking to help people to run also.

Thanks broli for helping to reveal the truth about yourself and the owners/moderators of this site.

I can create a website and make it look like many people are willing to donate money, when in fact, no one is willing to donate anything.

And once you share your work with them, if they refuse to pay you have NO recourse without spending a bunch of your own money to ATTEMPT to recover your work. If you are willing to give away your work worth millions (if you succeed) why would you give it to them to steal for 15,000 dollars?

If you need 15,000 dollars that bad then you obviously cannot afford to hire the attorney's and legal team to fight these people once they steal your work. These people know this.

Critical thinking is a wonderful thing. However far and few between actually practice this.

The rules I am making if you want my work to publish for everyone is.

1) I will provide a video of a working prototype.
2) I will provide a video which will PROVE the device will work which may include showing a partial assembly of the device.
3) I will provide an affadavit that the device is what I claim it to be.
4) I will enter into an agreement that states unless the device works as described I must return all money.
5) Stefan and his nuts must travel to MY location at their own expense to view the device in action ( but not be able to examine any parts I do not want to reveal until I am paid)
6) The price for this information is not 15,000 US dollars but 15 million
US dollars.

If I come up with a working prototype I will build and give these devices away for free to poor people, to provide free energy to those most in need.
I will do this because I am not in neeed of money.

A contest for peanuts will not be the downfal of the TRUE open source of any information I have.

You have a great day and a Merry Christmas and Happy New Year.

P.S. I was going to use the nickname "Ken (feel free to call me names)"
but that nickname was too long it said. I LOVE IT when people call me names, it is a window into their soul.

 

Hi overtaker,

One more thing, when you hide the IP's the site owners can make it look like many people are donating money. Why hide the IP's? They must give you the option to hide your IP in oder for them to do the same.

OPEN SOURCE and HIDING doesn't go hand in hand, if this was a true open source site they too would realize this and publish the IP's and make it part of the agreement. I bet if they started showing IP's then there would be a bunch of people that never post here again, not because they fear having their IP's revealed, but because several people will have the exact same IP number.

Critical thinking, such a wonderful thing.

Have a great day!!

Ken

It is good to see more clear minds posting.

Thanks

Hello Hammer,

I like that nick , THE HAMMER!!!

I am all for open source I put the price of 15 million US dollars on the information so when, not if, but when they attempt to steal the information they will pay for the legal team to fight themselves. Kind of a novel idea I think.:)

I not only have ideas about this wheel, I have an idea pertaining to the Floyd Sweet invention and the conditioning of the magnets.

I believe there are mini tornadoes, if you will, in constant motion in EVERY magnetic field. These tornadoes in my mind are actually the result of the absence of positive energy. These tornadoes are contained within the magnetic field and cannot exist outside of the magnetic field. This idea came to me 33 years ago but I was very young and had no idea what to do with the idea.

After reading a couple articles about Floyd Sweets device I believe I have stumbled onto an idea that is so simplistic that it will work and boggle the minds of those who have tried to recreate his device. I believe there is a way to excite these tornadoes and make them expand in size within the magnetic field to a strength large enough to extract energy from them.
But this energy will not be positive energy but in fact negative energy.
in nature these tornadoes are so small no measurable or usable amount of energy can be extracted.

Also thinking in positive terms and building in positive ways, REDUCES the size of these tornadoes because of the introduction of positive energy.
Once the positive energy is removed from the magnetic field the tornadoes will return to their original size. This is why no mainstream scientific mind can even attempt to grasp it.

So one of 2 things must happen, one must excite the device with negative energy to turn it on, OR one must change the orientation of these tornadoes so they are not adversely affected by the positive energy used to excite the device. I believe Floyd Sweet figured out how to orient these tornadoes.

I also believe I have figured out how to alter the orientation. And it is so simple it makes me laugh.

If one orients the tornadoes properly, once the device is excited the tornadoes will EXPAND to such a size energy can be extracted but it will be negative energy.

I do not know your background so I apologize if I am making this more remedial than necessary. I like layman terms myself instead of trying to make others feel inadequate if they do not have the education and insight of others. I want them to understand, I have no desire to SOUND like an EGGHEAD.

In conventional electrical theory, it is taught that the 29th electron in the valence shell of the copper atom jumps from one atom to the next and this is what causes the electrical potential to move through the wire. Also known as amps.

But lets look at it from a different perspective. once an electron jumps from one atom to the next, a HOLE is created where the electron used to be.
FOLLOW THE HOLE, ignore the electron. this HOLE has potential energy yet no particle (positive particle that is) Energy without particles ( positive particles) will create no heat , and in fact any existing heat will be pumped  AWAY from the hole.

Extracting these HOLES from the oriented tornadoes is possible and more simple than most people think, because they have been taught in positive ways and these positive learned ideas will not be dismissed by people unless they experience a paradigm shift, which is impossible if one has an ego based on his education.

Ego based on education = main stream science.

Once the magnets are conditioned, you can build the device for a few hundred dollars.  Cost of wire , magnets, and a few miscellaneous parts, and a case to put it in.

I think it would be a blast to have the time to try a few things, but I lack time.

You have a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year!

goodness gracious this is not what i expected, lets start by a suggestion, lay off the caps buttom

heres how i see it

broli was being sarcastic in about every way, and satirizing those who support patenting

i am not aware of everyones relationship to each other, nor i do know what happened between you all, but i dont think it was to be taken literally, and even as someone who does not know broli it is pretty clear everything he said he actually thinks the exact opposite


if it was out of spite, it was a little extreme, but feeding into turned this thread into a 4 page shit show


Ken the great is most likely broli, AB Hammer knows this (or at least thinks it), and to further try and anger broli, he supported him fully

i didnt solve besslers wheel but i think i solved this one

mr_bojangles

No, I don't think it is broli. I already PMed Ken with who I think Ken the great is.

Ken the great

I am a blacksmith that specializes with medieval armor by trade, thus I use the Hammer. ;)

hah well i would imagine your gues is more educated than mine in this instance (seeing as how i have no idea what the fuss is about) all in good fun tho  ;)

that is a very interesting profession, is it in your family? or did you aquire the taste for metal later on

normally i would apologize to circle for steering this thread away, but he seems to be in remission, best of luck to him and all

LOL@me being broli.

Thats great!!!!! I now have window into your soul. hehehehe

I am not broli, nor do I hide my IP. If people are respectful ( of me AND others) I don't mind sharing EVERYTHING!!!!!!!

Do you like my caps? I use them as I SEE FIT!!! HAHAHA I do not succumb to nonsensical accusations nor attempted ridicule. I just use the information to describe the one spouting it.

Someone emailed me. I will not say who. I have given him some of the information for free. If he decided to attempt to build the wheel I will share anything I can.

It is easy to sit back and guess who someone is without knowledge tact or common sense, if accuracy is not a prerequisite.

bojangles, Seein' how you like no caps your name has no caps in it. LOL

Why would you accuse me of being broli? I just joined this group, but I am thinking it is already time to quit. Whats with all the damn whining?

broli was whining and spouting untruth's, pretty much everyone EXCEPT the moderator knew this. Hell I knew it and just joined. I see now you are whining and spouting untruths also.

This makes me believe you are broli. I mean IT IS the same tactic. LOL

You both hide your IP numbers. What are you scared of?

My IP number will be the same everytime, and It doesn't match any other IP. You however hide your IP. Interesting mindset you have.

Now for the real reason I posted

Hammer, that is and interesting occupation.
Is there a market out there for armor? Or do you do all types of blacksmith work? The last time I forged anything was about 20 years ago.
Nothing compares to the first couple hits with the hammer on the red hot steel.

Do you have a website or something with pictures on it? I would like to see some of your work.

Well you have a Great Day!   

"Don't worry about the lemmings, they won't follow you if you have an idea."

Greetings Ken

Here is a link of some of my armour work. I will be updating it in a few months.
http://www.creationtime.com/hisbsaw.htm

I don't hide either, I am Alan Bauldree and legal alias is AB Hammer (this was done for my banks purpose when I lived in KY) and my email is ab.hammer@yahoo.com

You are correct but I like to say there is nothing like taking something void of design and making a useful art out of it.

Alan

Quote from: mr_bojangles on December 10, 2009, 10:29:01 PM

normally i would apologize to circle for steering this thread away, but he seems to be in remission, best of luck to him and all

Circle may have steered clear of this forum due to the input of broli, but take my word for it, he is not in remission and is very much alive and kicking!

Ralph

http://arracheenterprise.web.officelive.com/default.aspx

Lol !!!...keep it coming :D

Could somone post a link to all or most of the eye witnness accounts because if he looked at them and found somthing i would like to try it, thanks

Alex

haha very true

the caps i was referring to was that of circle in the beginning

well the reason i suggested Ken to be broli was due to your interesting timing and lack of posts in other areas,

apologies then for my mis-guided attempts at finding the truth of the matter, it was not a an accusation, but merely a guess at something that possibly could be

the reason i suggested it is because what you say sounds like something broli might, in the area of open sourcing, and something that might contradict AB in a sense, and when AB agreed it seemed like he was thinking along the same lines as myself

no worries Ken, i would very much like to see your ideas and hope you might take the time to voice your opinions on  my ideas as well

Hello Alan,

Sorry it took so long to respond but I have been busy.
I visited your site and I have to say that is some very fine work you do.

I am impressed, and I am NOT easily impressed being a cynic and all. LOL
Keep up the good work, I love the QUALITY!

I took a few hours off from the requirements of life and drew up about a dozen or so plans for the wheel. Then I put on my thinkin cap, similar to what Einstein used to do. I locked myself in my home office, removed all distractions and contemplated my designs.

After studying them, all but 2 designs will not work. No need to waste time building them.

One design will work but I doubt any usable power can be extracted from it.
I made a small prototype out of 2 CD's taped together with some weighted arms, springs etc. But once it started rotating the cd could not handle the weights shifting and the wheel exploded. (Because it was plastic)

Then we have the remaining design. I have figured out what Bessler did.

What Bessler wrote in his pamphlets, along with the other eye witness accounts, like Count Karl. Gives away 99.9% of the wheel design.

Bessler even tells us what the KEY to his device is. I now know why he didn't want anyone to look inside.

It is so simple once you see it you will go DUH!!!!!
As long as there is gravity the device can't help but work.

I have a question, what would you do if you figured out what Bessler did?
I DO NOT want big oil to end up with this. I don't want someone else patenting this to restrict its use. Any Ideas?


and to mr bojangles,,,,no worries:)

Hello Ken

Well first you need to have a working prototype that won't fall apart each time you show it. That is where builders come in. Then I have to wonder if you figured out what I have. Are they the same or slightly different. There is a good chance they would be different. But I have seen allot of people come up with the same design as well on other attempts. If you want we can talk on the phone. Just send me your email or email me with your phone number and I will send you mine. I have talked with members here on the forum before and some I still talk to on occasion. The fact that some of us overlook is that the wheel is bigger than all of us.

Hope to  talk to you later
Alan

Hi Alan,

I apparently left you with the wrong impression. I built the prototype in a matter of 10 minutes out of things I had in front of me.

I am a certified mechanic, a certified welder and a master electrician.
There is nothing I can't build. TIME is what I lack. The prototype did in fact work long enough to see the actual working of the shifting weights, which is why I believe it would run by itself, but I also came to the conclusion, by seeing it in action, that the power output would not be very great.

If I had the time I estimate it would take between 40 and 60 hours to build a wheel with a 6 foot diameter, from the last set of plans I have. This includes the time to collect the parts. With help of course the time would be considerably less. However once it is built you must adjust the timing of the device for maximum output. This of course is not included in my estimate.

I am very detailed oriented also, I know quality when I see it and junk when I see it. I apologize for the confusion. I wouldn't mind talking to you when I get some time. I am in the middle of a front end alignment right now on my wife's car, I just came in for a short break.

Well I need to get back to work, I will post again later today hopefully and maybe we can make arrangements to contact you. 

My main concern is that the information remains free to the world, and not scooped up by big oil.

Have a great day

Hi Ken

LOL Well then we can talk a fellow builders. ;D The only way to keep it out of big oil hands is to control it by patent and keep ahead of the curve improving it for it will be a handful to protect.

Alan

Hi Alan,

I have been doing a little research and have discovered patents don't really protect the inventor's rights if a big corporation decides to steal it.

Remember the 1 quart metal oil cans, before plastic bottles? A man invented an opener/funnel/top that snapped onto the top of the oil can and sealed it so it wouldn't spill. His idea was stolen and he went to court and his patent meant nothing.

Ever hear of the weed eater? They stole the design from a man who patented it and they too got away with it.

After reading a few of these examples, I have to ask, what is the REAL value of a patent? If a company can just steal it, then the courts let them what is the use?

Its like damned if ya do damned if ya don't.

Check your email

Have a great day!

Greetings Ken

PM and email sent.

Quote from: circle on November 01, 2009, 04:54:32 PM
I FIRST FOUND A PICTURE OF BESSLERS WHEEL IN NOV 07
FOR FIVE DAYS I DID NOT REALLY DO MUCH OF ANYTHING ELSE OTHER THAN ATTEMPT TO UNDERSTAND IT
NOT EVEN SLEEP
MY FIRST IMPRESSIONS WERE GROSSLY INACURATE BUT I DETERMINED THIS TO BE THE CASE, AND FORMED A NEW IDEA
AGAIN AND AGAIN  TILL I WAS OFF IN THE GERMAN ARCHIVES READING 'MACHINEN TRACTAE' IN ITS ORIGINAL FORM
AT SOME POINT IT DAWNED ON ME THAT HE HAD NO INTENTION OF REVEALING THE METHOD IN HIS OWN WRITINGS
  AND SO I TURNED AT LAST TO THE DESCRIPTIONS OF THOSE WHO WITNESSED IT FOR THEMSELVES
AFTER RESOLVING ITEM AFTER ITEM I FINALLY FOUND MYSELF WITH A FULL UNDERSTANDING OF THE INTERIOR OF THE DEVICE
ITS NOT COMPLICATED BUT IT MIGHT BE A BIT BEYOND ME TO BUILD IT
IM INTRESTED IN WORKING WITH SOMEONE WHO IS ABLE TO ASSIST IN THE CONSTRUCTION
TO BE SPECIFIC.. THERE ARE ONLY TWO POINTS THAT I DO NOT HAVE AN EXACT FINAL DECRIPTION OF
AND THEY WILL HAVE TO BE RESOLVED IN THE FINAL STAGE OF BUILDING
THESE TWO POINTS BEING 
1]THE EXACT POSITION OF ATTACHMENT FOR ONE END OF THE SPRING
2]THE EXACT METHOD OF ATTACHMENT OF THE OTHER END OF THE SPRING (EITHER CENTERED AND BALLANCED OR OFFCENTER AND FUNCTIONING AS FULCRUM)
IM TEMPTED TO JUST MAKE A VIDEO AND BLURT IT ALL OUT BUT THE IDEA OFF PASSING ON WHAT MIGHT BE EARNED DOSENT SIT WELL WITH ME ANY MORE THAN IT DID WITH JOHANN BESSLER HIMSELF
A FEW POINTS THAT IM SURE THOSE WHO ARE ON THE RIGHT PATH HAVE ALREADY CONSIDERED..
THE WHEEL WILL FUNCTION WITH ONLY ONE SET OF TWO WEIGHTS
BUT IT WILL MOVE QUICKLY DOWNWARD THEN VERY NEARLY STOP AS IT RETURNS BACK TO THE UPRIGHT POSITION
YOU HAVE TO BE VERY CLEVER TO CAUSE ONE WEIGHT TO LIFT THE OTHER
THINK ABOUT IT
THIS IS AS DIRECT AS I CAN BE
AND FOR SOME IT SHOULD BE A CLEAR EXPLANATION
THE DEVICE IS EFFECTIVLY A MOBIUS - JACOBS LADDER THAT IS SO VERY NEARLY PERFECTLY BALLANCED
THAT THE ENERGY STORED IN A SPRING IS ALL THAT IS NEEDED TO COMPLETE THE CIRCUT OVER AND OVER AGAIN
IN EFFECT.. ITS 'FUEL' IS THE STORED KINETIC ENERGY IN THE METAL OF THE SPRING
THE DEVICE IS NOT PERPETUAL; IT WILL ONLY RUN UNTIL THE SPRING WEARS TO THE POINT IT CAN NO LONGER 'RESET' THE DEVICE
(THE PENDULM ON THE EXTERIOR IS A GOVERNOR)
{THE NON SELF-STARTING DOUBLE THICKNESS REVERSIBLE WHEEL IS SIMPLY TWO EQUAL CONSTRUCTIONS OF 'EIGHT PAIRS OF SETS OF WEIGHTS' SET OPPOSED TO EACH OTHER}

Could this be anything to do with it, (the mobius and jacobs ladder = Mobius Ladder)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M%C3%B6bius_ladder

Is Mobius that word which Bessler said could give away his secret?

Thinking about it you could "climb higher" on a jacobs ladder if it was a mobius ladder, and here is link of a mobius strip for those who are unsure of what properties is has because ive just tried making one and cutting it as it says on the following link and its strange how drwing a single line on the mobious strip draws twice as long as the strip and only has one side...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M%C3%B6bius_strip


Cheers, Alex

hmmm... people talking page after page and mr. circle did not even respond once again. I think we've already had enough of this "SOLVED" miracles.

Quote from: gauschor on January 12, 2010, 09:10:56 AM
hmmm... people talking page after page and mr. circle did not even respond once again. I think we've already had enough of this "SOLVED" miracles.

Well I don't think hes posted this to falsely boost his own reputation because he hasn't even replied so he cant be getting much enjoyment out of it, correct me if I'm wrong...

Alex

circle may have solved the puzzle of Besslers wheel. However without any type of discussion or explanation, I would have to play the skeptic.

Especially after seeing countless number of people email me telling me how they are all set up to build, they have the ability and means to do so, so I will email the sketches and even some drawings of specific pieces, only to  hear excuses of why they can't build anything. I doubt these people could build anything regardless of time or facilities. They possess no skills.

Why would someone tell you they are going to build something, then once you send the design, they all of a sudden have all sorts of excuses.
The answer is quite easy. It is because that particular person believes deception is the way to go. Moral instability always follows emotional instability.

Of course this is not ALL, but the overwhelming majority. ALL TALK.
(There are a few exceptions, less than 5)

I think that is the problem with why Besslers wheel has not been recreated thus far. The majority of people are all talk. SO if we look at the number of people "claiming" they are trying to recreate his wheel out of the general population pool, verses the number of people who ACTUALLY DO SOMETHING, other than talk, we find the actual number of people trying to recreate the wheel is but a handful per generation.

That would be my estimate. 80 generations x 5 people is 400 people in the past 300 years. And these 400 do not get to pool the information or share ideas. Put that along side the mocking and ridicule from people playing the odds and that number of 400 is probably a lot smaller.

1 out of 5 people odds are doesn't have the intellect to grasp the idea. Even though he is trying to build prototypes. This makes the number of people even smaller. Now factor in those whose character isn't strong enough to refute the ridicule. You have even less.

Out of everyone I have spoke with on this site I would say there are only 3 other people besides myself who could actually build this thing. The rest are posers.

I am not speaking of those people who just wanted to look at the design. And were up front about it. They did not create the impression they were going to build anything, whether it was from being worn out or a self admitted lack of skills.

All I can do is laugh when I think of all this. No wonder Bessler acted like he did if he had to put up with the same shit. Same deception. Personally, I doubt circle was even a real person. The hiding of IP numbers on an open source site is the reason why.

Ken,
You have created an arousal and paused shop research time with your above post.

Circle may or may not have solved the puzzle of Bessler's, but I can tell you his design is not based on Bessler, there is nothing in the Bessler archives that comes close to what ________ (circle) has, true it is a gravity driven concept, but the similarity ends there.

Playing the skeptic IMO is the proper way to address such things as gravity wheel claims and energy from nothing.  I am optimistic of Bessler based  on eye witness reports, at the same time I am a member of Eric Kreig's scam watch, you go figure!

Circle is for real and I have collected 10 different Web site links learning much about him and his design. I am not endorsing any statement as to whether his design is self-sustaining or not, as I have yet to see the full disclosure.     

I am sorry that you have sent sketches to those who claim to be all set to build. I am one such person you sent your plans to. I have made no excuses other than telling you that you have to wait your turn. Your concept as sent holds key elements found in a like design now under build. I have not decided as of yet whether we have a 'conflict of interest' requiring acknowledgment of both designers.

You have been dealing mainly with Alan, his image reflects on me and 'Arrache'. If there is any qualms about this please advise. Excuses of not being able to build because of lack of abilities or resources is not within our vocabulary.
 
We have not told you 'we are going to build', that is not our policy. We offer to look at your design and if we consider it viable, then we consider building it.

Integrity comes first, if your design conflicts with anything already in our possession then there are two choices. We either refuse to involve ourselves or request permission from all involved parties to combine forces. Either way, not unlike sitting in a doctors office you must wait your turn.

If you feel deceived by someone who is willing to gain advantage by deception and you can prove your claim avoiding a slander suit, then it is your public obligation to make the rest of us aware of such dealings.

I agree that the majority are all talk, I address them as 'Armchair philosophers' who are not just about to get up and go build something.

And yes. I agree there is only a handful who actually do something, the rest get their kicks by flaming others on forums such as this.

I for one do refute the ridicule as well as being a builder. In doing so, I ask myself about the person I am addressing this to. Is he another 'Armchair philosopher' or is he a builder with good ideas?   

There are many more than 3 people on this forum who are capable of building your design. I will not refute or rebuff the number of them following this particular thread, that is questionable. Most avid builders would not waste time following this thread. They lost interest after page one. 

As for your following statement, I commend you for your acknowledgment of those up front and stated ' they only wanted to look'

QuoteI am not speaking of those people who just wanted to look at the design. And were up front about it. They did not create the impression they were going to build anything, whether it was from being worn out or a self admitted lack of skills.

QuotePersonally, I doubt circle was even a real person. The hiding of IP numbers on an open source site is the reason why.

Circle is for real and two chairs ahead of you in the waiting room. As for tracking IP numbers you can track mine and still be over 188 miles off.

This is not the 'open source' site it is claimed to be, if so I could scroll up and find schematics of your design. It is a forum for trading and or discussing ideas, very few put all their cards face up on the table.

Your words from page three;

QuoteI don't believe this site promotes open source at all but I believe the owners of this site are trying to acquire the work of others for free then will run and steal the information.

Ralph Lortie

http://www.arrache.org/   

Ralph,

I was not talking about your group in the previous post. Just to make that clear.

I won't be revealing anyone by name, as my post was not directed at revealing people. My post was in reflection of this entire experience, and the games that people are playing.

I would like to see circles websites myself. If the websites are available to everyone, could you post them or email them? I apologize to circle, now that I have more information.

I have already emailed you and told you however long it takes, that is how long it takes. Neither Alan nor you gave me the impression you were ready to build this design. This effectively excludes you from my post regarding people being deceptive.

I have decided to build the wheel myself. This does not mean you cannot use my design. If my design and someone else's design is similar, who decides whose design it is?

If someone has a similar design but not the part that causes it to work, does he receive the credit? I am a little confused on your policy. If the parties involved decide to pool their ideas, does that mean both parties are able to see all design aspects of both designs?

I am not restricting the use of my design, but I also do not want to exclude myself from sharing ideas of others who have viable designs. If the right to my design opens a door to do this then I will take advantage of such a
position.

I feel this site has no more use for me and my ideas about the gravity wheel.  Again if you have the websites for circle, please email them or post them. Thanks

Ken,   I would also like to know what side of the fence you consider me.

Thanks

overtaker,

Fence which fence? I have a box, and no yer not in the box.

Not yet , hahahaha  j/k

I do not recall you saying you ever had any intentions of building anything.
Did you?

I see you as helpful with the clues, even when I didn't know of the clue.
4 pounds 4-1/4's, 1 pound 1-1/4 clue to be specific.

Helpfulness and deception are not usually from the same source from my experience.

So I would say you are on the side of the fence that is being painted, and not on the side that needs to be painted.  HAHAHHA

8)

"I can try to be more obtuse, but I can't seem to find the angle."

Thanks for the response Ken.   Yes, I did say I wasn't interested in building your wheel before you sent me the sketches.  I do build though.  I have a few ideas I will send you.  :)

Ken,

QuoteI was not talking about your group in the previous post. Just to make that clear. I won't be revealing anyone by name,

Good policy unless you you have a fraud report to make with substantial backing to prove your statement.

QuoteI would like to see circles websites myself. If the websites are available to everyone, could you post them or email them? I apologize to circle, now that I have more information.

Sorry but I will not reveal names either. Circle contacted me in confidence and my integrity will not betray that trust. If you are or were of the Catholic Faith, went to confession and then found it on tomorrows newspaper headlines, what would you think of the priest.

True, the web sites are for public viewing an all is open to those knowing where to look. But for me to reveal  would be in direct violation of my oath to keep all submitted material confidential. I have already said more than I should have in defense of circle's image being displayed here.

If you wish to blame anyone for circle's lack of response here I would suggest you point your finger at Broli.   

QuoteI have decided to build the wheel myself. This does not mean you cannot use my design. If my design and someone else's design is similar, who decides whose design it is?

I assume then that it is alright to borrow from your design providing credit is given where due. The decision is based on mutual agreement between involved parties and a fair judgment of what the percentage of each is utilized.

QuoteIf someone has a similar design but not the part that causes it to work, does he receive the credit? I am a little confused on your policy. If the parties involved decide to pool their ideas, does that mean both parties are able to see all design aspects of both designs?

If yours works then it yours as it works! If it is used to augment a design making one then yes both parties will see all and collaborate their ideas into one design considered more efficient than either standing alone.

Remember, by PTO laws only the person or persons conceiving the idea can be named inventor/s. Any person building or augmenting the design does not qualify as inventor.

QuoteI am not restricting the use of my design, but I also do not want to exclude myself from sharing ideas of others who have viable designs. If the right to my design opens a door to do this then I will take advantage of such a position.

Well stated and you will be given the advantage. First you will have to wait your turn for your design to be put though the analysis process. If it is not a stand alone runner, then you be asked to merge your design with another using the best of both.

It is essential to 'Arrache' policy that all participants involved be recognized. If while building a design and in the process an accidental discovery is found, leading to a completely different idea with no similarity to the design leading to it, the submitter leading to the accident will be recognized.
   

QuoteI feel this site has no more use for me and my ideas about the gravity wheel.  Again if you have the websites for circle, please email them or post them.

Sorry ken, first you show sense to know you are not achieving anything here, and then ask me to betray my trust. I cannot give you that which would violate confidential anonymity. You need to spread your wings and find a covey  more interested in your innovative aptitude and less on your 'armchair' social behavior as displayed here.

Yes, I am the kind of guy who will tell you if and when you have bad breath, rather than avoid you! To do this, I have broad shoulders and a reputation built on integrity. Some may not like it but I hold respect for those that look me in the eye and tell it like it is.

Furthermore I do not like it when my text is turned into a hot link for advertising. This in my opinion is carrying commercialism of a so called 'Free Source' forum a bit to far. 

Ralph Lortie
http://www.arrache.org/   

Ralph,   He is not asking you to betray your trust.

He said:  I would like to see circles websites myself. If the websites are available to everyone, could you post them or email  them?

I think he is just saying if Circle is sharing his idea, where can he view it.  :)

Ralph,

If you do not want me to see his websites that is ok.

I also will tell you if you have bad breath. That to me is the only way to be.

I am not interested in getting all wrapped up in the secrecy aspect that seems to surround this. I am into sharing ideas. I would hate to wake up one morning and have to spend time deciding what I can and cannot share.

I tend to shy away from those who secrecy is in the forefront of their personality. Sharing is a 2 way street, and secrecy is contrary to sharing.

I have one use for secrecy and that is when you are giving. Secrecy in giving, in my opinion, is a good use for it.

Secrecy divides. If someone else want to be secretive, that is their choice.
It is not a choice I would make.

Who examines the designs to determine if they are viable?


Have Fun    8)

overtaker,

Cool you can send me anything you like.


Ken

Ken,

It is not that I do not want you to see the web sites, its the fact that I promised confidentiality. Frankly I could care less if you found the sites the same way I did. He did not offer them to me.

QuoteI am not interested in getting all wrapped up in the secrecy aspect that seems to surround this. I am into sharing ideas. I would hate to wake up one morning and have to spend time deciding what I can and cannot share.

Its a matter of collaboration between a few willing to mind merge and share productive input to achieve a common goal. A lot of members here and elsewhere have years of toil, labor and expense wrapped up in this. We do not feel it is right to just let all climb aboard the band wagon.

QuoteI tend to shy away from those who secrecy is in the forefront of their personality. Sharing is a 2 way street, and secrecy is contrary to sharing.

And where do you draw the line, If you wish to share give me your physical address, share your paycheck to give me gas money to get there and the wife and I would be more than happy to share your home with you. You of  course will be expected to pay all utility and overhead expenses.

QuoteI have one use for secrecy and that is when you are giving. Secrecy in giving, in my opinion, is a good use for it.

Yes being an anonymous donor does indeed give one a good feeling, but there is a limit as to how far you can extend such gratitude when living on a fixed income.   

QuoteSecrecy divides. If someone else want to be secretive, that is their choice.It is not a choice I would make.

QuoteWho examines the designs to determine if they are viable?

Unless they are submitted to Alan or James I do the initial analysis. If from experience I find it unfeasible I return it with an explanation emphasizing that it is my opinion. If the submitter cannot except negative input then I and only I take the brunt of it.

If the idea does hold merit and leaves question then it is shared on an as needed basis to the team for farther research and or development. Allan and James do not always know who I am working with no more than I know who they are working with.

Ralph Lortie
http://www.arrache.org/ 

Quote from: overtaker on January 14, 2010, 10:20:12 PM
Ralph,   He is not asking you to betray your trust.

He said:  I would like to see circles websites myself. If the websites are available to everyone, could you post them or email  them?

I think he is just saying if Circle is sharing his idea, where can he view it.  :)

That's the problem, he is not sharing. when I informed him of finding where he had discussed his wheel previously, he was a very unhappy camper and informed me that he was sorry he ever spoke of it.  Having already made an agreement of confidentiality I am stuck being prompted to release that which I cannot do.

We all have access to Google, go for it!

Ralph

Ralph,

I was talking about sharing ideas. What thought process occurred to make the jump to income and housing?

I have taken people in and let them stay until they could get back on their feet. I have paid all the utilities. This however has nothing to do with sharing ideas.

When people are secretive then the flow of ideas is a one way street. This does nothing to further the project. It does however result in the person being secretive ending up with all the other people ideas.

I think at this time I shall refrain from participating. I am officially requesting that you delete all of my drawings and emails with clarifications in them.
I am withdrawing my submittal and all of my ideas from your group.

You have a great day.   8)

Ken wrote;

QuoteI think at this time I shall refrain from participating. I am officially requesting that you delete all of my drawings and emails with clarifications in them.
I am withdrawing my submitted and all of my ideas from your group.

Where as you have posted this request for public knowledge, I respond in like manner; All correspondence to and from plus drawings have been deleted from a secure folder.

Be advised that any communication which is also public knowledge between you and Alan is not in my control, nor do I claim any rights or responsibilities to such communication.

Ralph Lortie

To all who have been following this this thread and a with special acknowledgment to circle and the moderator I owe a deep apology.

Every statement I have made on this thread regarding 'circle' and having any communication with him is in error. Circle is not the party I assumed him to be.

All my statements about having contact with circle, defending him, and making comments of related web sites was in error brought about by my assumption that he was what is now known to be another forum member who registered and posted within one to two days of each other.

Circle has only made one post and sent me two private letters that left me totally confused until the person I thought to be him, using his given name set me straight on the matter.   

That person addressing me with his given name did not know that I thought he was Circle as he has never visited this thread. Confused over circles private mail which did not make sense to me I asked him if he was circle and he set me straight. I have been communicating with him thinking that he was using the pseudonym 'circle'.

My statements that I was communicating with the true circle are unfounded and him having any web sites is invalid.

For this serious mix up, I humbly apologize, an look forward to getting off on a better start with Circle if he is interested. IF he is it will be only by given name and no pseudonyms. 

Furthermore, I hate this damn forum, I spent an hour drafting a private letter to the real 'Circle' explaining in detail, only to have over half of my response disappear when I hit the submit button.

I attempted to send him two letters and my sent box is empty when it should contain those two sent letters. I can only assume they were deleted to make room for advertising and text hot-links. Did he receive them? I will never know unless he responds.

Ralph Lortie   

Ralph,  Your talking in circles.  :)

Quote from: rlortie on January 21, 2010, 09:47:25 PM
To all who have been following this this thread and a with special acknowledgment to circle and the moderator I owe a deep apology.

Every statement I have made on this thread regarding 'circle' and having any communication with him is in error. Circle is not the party I assumed him to be.

All my statements about having contact with circle, defending him, and making comments of related web sites was in error brought about by my assumption that he was what is now known to be another forum member who registered and posted within one to two days of each other.

Circle has only made one post and sent me two private letters that left me totally confused until the person I thought to be him, using his given name set me straight on the matter.   

That person addressing me with his given name did not know that I thought he was Circle as he has never visited this thread. Confused over circles private mail which did not make sense to me I asked him if he was circle and he set me straight. I have been communicating with him thinking that he was using the pseudonym 'circle'.

My statements that I was communicating with the true circle are unfounded and him having any web sites is invalid.

For this serious mix up, I humbly apologize, an look forward to getting off on a better start with Circle if he is interested. IF he is it will be only by given name and no pseudonyms. 

Furthermore, I hate this damn forum, I spent an hour drafting a private letter to the real 'Circle' explaining in detail, only to have over half of my response disappear when I hit the submit button.

I attempted to send him two letters and my sent box is empty when it should contain those two sent letters. I can only assume they were deleted to make room for advertising and text hot-links. Did he receive them? I will never know unless he responds.

Ralph Lortie   

Ralph talking about emails, attend to mine, i have sent you two lol

Alex

He did Alex!  He replied to them with me.   ;D

Quote from: overtaker on January 22, 2010, 07:01:06 AM
He did Alex!  He replied to them with me.   ;D

overtaker

?? Please no misleading.

Alex

I was just talking to Ralph and he said he would be responding to you shortly.

Hey Alex,   You knew it was a joke right?  Just tieing in to Ralph's above post.  I thought it was funny.
Take care.

Quote from: rlortie on January 21, 2010, 09:47:25 PM
Furthermore, I hate this damn forum, I spent an hour drafting a private letter to the real 'Circle' explaining in detail, only to have over half of my response disappear when I hit the submit button.

I attempted to send him two letters and my sent box is empty when it should contain those two sent letters. I can only assume they were deleted to make room for advertising and text hot-links. Did he receive them? I will never know unless he responds.

Ralph Lortie   

an hour? how long was your message? it sounds like your response went over the maximum characters per post limit.

did you check the "Save a copy in my outbox" box? if you exceeded the max char limit, who knows what the forum software did with them...

Quote from: WilbyInebriated on January 22, 2010, 04:47:45 PM
an hour? how long was your message? it sounds like your response went over the maximum characters per post limit.

did you check the "Save a copy in my outbox" box? if you exceeded the max char limit, who knows what the forum software did with them...

The letters were not over character limit which I am aware of. The hour is an expression of time spent composing in a manner expressing my emotions over the error I had made, assuming that he was someone he is not.

No I did not check the "Save a copy in my outbox". I did not know it was a requirement as most forums I frequent does this automatically. Thanks for bringing this to my attention, next time I will know better.

@ ALEX, As Alan has stated I will be getting back to you, since the conception of  http://www.arrache.org/  I have been inundated with mail requiring response. Just as in a doctors waiting room your turn is coming up.

This lengthy  thread all started with an author calling himself 'circle' making the initial post, We have not heard from him since, his profile states that he was online the day he started this thread, November 4th and then on January 20th to write me a private letter. All I can gather about him is that he claims to live in Texas and has  personal concerns which I will not speak of here.

This can be verified by clicking on his name and profile.

Now, not unlike the old TV series 'What is my name' will the real circle stand up?

Ralph Lortie   

Quote :  @ Eric, As Alan has stated I will be getting back to you, since the conception of  http://www.arrache.org/  I have been inundated with mail requiring response. Just as in a doctors waiting room your turn is coming up.



Ahh,  you do mean Alex don't you?  If that was also a joke,  it was quite funny!   :)

No it is not meant to be any kind of a joke. It is a typing error caused by a brain fart! and it will be rectified.

I also wrote another letter to circle which did not show up in me my 'sent box' it did however show up as a download in Mozilla FireFox?

lol I got the joke don't worry :P and it looks like I'm going to be a regular patient Doctor Ralph, my designs arn't doing well...

Alex

Please go to the Milkovic 2SO main thread for discussions.

Quote from: ltseung888 on September 22, 2014, 05:09:54 PM
Please go to the Milkovic 2SO main thread for discussions.

It is quite an example of how futile all of your claimed:  "Lead out, bring in" energy machine schemes are.  If you believe in this thing then build it and discover that it does not work as you claim.