I have had a weekend of experimentation... Mostly failures with a little success at the end.
I am trying to develop a replicateable petier(seebeck) candle powered JT circuit. I can get it to work alright however I would really like to get my hands on a really low input transistor ( currently using 3904). My lights do not come on until .7 volts now. This takes a few minutes.
Also I would like to power a small motor fan for the heat sink. From this same circuit.
Work flow goes like this...
light candle
adjust height under peltier
light comes on
fan kicks in
light gets brighter
no input except the peltier/candle
I have absolutely no idea how this circuit will look except that I am using the jeanna light circuit to power the lights.
Maybe even integrate and ultra cap as long as I can recharge it from the peltier.
ANY help is much appreciated.
Thanks
UZ
Quote from: unzapped on January 10, 2010, 04:44:32 PM
I have had a weekend of experimentation... Mostly failures with a little success at the end.
I am trying to develop a replicateable petier(seebeck) candle powered JT circuit. I can get it to work alright however I would really like to get my hands on a really low input transistor ( currently using 3904). My lights do not come on until .7 volts now. This takes a few minutes.
Also I would like to power a small motor fan for the heat sink. From this same circuit.
Work flow goes like this...
light candle
adjust height under peltier
light comes on
fan kicks in
light gets brighter
no input except the peltier/candle
I have absolutely no idea how this circuit will look except that I am using the jeanna light circuit to power the lights.
Maybe even integrate and ultra cap as long as I can recharge it from the peltier.
ANY help is much appreciated.
Thanks
UZ
use for low Vce(at) an germanium transistor
OR an Silicon Type from FERRANTI
It is only 1 silicon transistor (in wold) that work
on voltages below 0,7volts properly.
perhaps i find out the type numeber if need..
prferred (not so hard to find) Germanium pnp.
Pese
Quote from: unzapped on January 10, 2010, 04:44:32 PM
I have had a weekend of experimentation... Mostly failures with a little success at the end.
I am trying to develop a replicateable petier(seebeck) candle powered JT circuit. I can get it to work alright however I would really like to get my hands on a really low input transistor ( currently using 3904). My lights do not come on until .7 volts now. This takes a few minutes.
Also I would like to power a small motor fan for the heat sink. From this same circuit.
Work flow goes like this...
light candle
adjust height under peltier
light comes on
fan kicks in
light gets brighter
no input except the peltier/candle
I have absolutely no idea how this circuit will look except that I am using the jeanna light circuit to power the lights.
Maybe even integrate and ultra cap as long as I can recharge it from the peltier.
ANY help is much appreciated.
Thanks
UZ
Unzapped
I can't help you with the electronics ......many others here have alot more experience than I have.
I do have a few suggestions though
A peltier device is not tthat efficient
I have heard that they are only 5 or 6 % efficient.
It might be easier to get it working well if you used a small sterling engine....80% efficiency is not uncommon.
Of course it would need a generator ..... I think even with the losses of the generator you would come out ahead with the sterling.
I also think that if you are only using one candle .......a fan is overkill
a heatsink made for a CPU should handle the heat easly with no fan
If you wanted to use more heat........ I think I would try adding a cooling tower kind of like a nuclear reactor .....I think I would try a clear plastic tube about 12 to 18 inches high
......slightly narrower at the top
gary
I agree about the germanium transistor. I also agree totally with Gary that the peltier is not the way to go in this application. You are burning up the wick and the wax to produce so little output. Why not just use dead batteries, which are free, and be done with it? If you can't do that, build an EER and run the JT for free.
The only way this would make sense to me is if you already have the heat, for free. Like hot water heaters that you are already paying for. (hook it to the pipe that is always hot anyway) There are just too many more efficient ways to run a JT that I would do long before this option.
Now, if you get your candles for free, then this would change the equation a little bit but still, as Gary said, then the Sterling would be the way to go.
Try it yourself and see. None of us here know everything. Peltier junctions are a neat thing to experiment with anyway so enjoy yourself, and let us know how it goes.
Bill
you cane make with cascadin arry also ANY needed voltage.
GRUNDIG have produced for Arabia-export. an petrol-
lampe that was to use with black/whith TV Sets that consumed 220V at abiut 200 watts.
only peltiers-ekements made from some hundred point contacted wires, surrounding the center petrol-flame.
GP
So zts not need to use any inerters for higher voltages.
Thank you all for your replies.
@pirate I am not sure what an EER is atm.
I am looking to build a small indoor emergency power generator to run leds, a small radio and possibly charge some small devices.
In the event of a total power outage possibly for extended periods of time. The only thing readily avalable may be fire. aka candles, etc...
I want to build the "coleman lantern" of the 21st century.
I have been recently researching thermopiles, as micro piles are what peltiers are made of...
Seems like a lost science almost.
@pese I have seem the lantern you speak of... but I do not know what cascadin arrays are... do you have a link for some further explaination?
This must be easy to do, I have also thought about a piezo electric generator using hot oil as pressure to generate power... this also seems possible...
I would love to run this from a stirling, but I am afraid of the cost of each unit... target end price... under 200$
Thanks
Uz
EER=Earth Energy Receiver. That is what we are now calling the Earth Battery as it is not a battery at all. Check out my tube videos where I run 400 leds, a 48" floro tube, and a Bedini motor from my EER for free. (different videos, not all at the same time)
Also check out Lasersaber's EER videos, he has surpassed my results to date.
Bill
Quote from: unzapped on January 11, 2010, 10:46:40 AM
I want to build the "coleman lantern" of the 21st century.
Unzapped
That may still be possible
What I do not understand is why you want to use 18th century technology to power your 21st century idea
Have you read anything about Gadgetmals try for the OU prize ?
Even if he does not win the prize.......his device lights a LED as part of it running ....... a LED that will run for years at least
It is taking me longer on my Jeanna light than I had hoped.
I am trying to add some feedback to make it run longer..........hopefully MUCH longer
gary
Well if you want to use candle power, I would make a tube enclosure and a heat sink for the hot side of the peltier and another for the cold side. If you use the air rise from the flame, that cool air can pull a draft across the cold side and the area above the flame can be the hot side. The use of the cold updraft will help to get rid of the heat developed on the cold side. If you didnt take advantage of the cold draft, the efficiency of the peltier will be less. It would be interesting to see what the smallest flame would produce. And Up the tube, how many peltiers can be heated? =]
Mags
I think you are all right. I am currently working on a jeanna circuit.. JT with secondary... trying to do some charging as well. This may be the way to go...
The peltier thing is just too inefficient, I can light a bulb no problem. But the heat does saturate the system eventually and it just doesn't produce enough power. Exactly barely enough to run the transistor.
I even thought about building my own pile with antimony and bizmuth... until I found out how much it was to buy the wire.
I would LOVE to add a stiriling this would just be too cool... however cost is an issue. Unless I could produce a cheap stirling that didn't look like a pos.
I am not giving up just yet... but I am looking in other directions.
Jason
@ unzapped
This is the lowest voltage JT I have made.
Quote from: unzapped on January 11, 2010, 10:46:40 AM
In the event of a total power outage possibly for extended periods of time. The only thing readily avalable may be fire. aka candles, etc...
I want to build the "coleman lantern" of the 21st century.
I have been recently researching thermopiles, as micro piles are what peltiers are made of...
Seems like a lost science almost.
someone beat you to it.
http://www.navitron.org.uk/product_detail.php?proID=18&catID=67
TEG's are great fun, if you're lucky you can find an old one used to power old tube radios and the like from a kerosene lantern, i love mine... they put out 2, 9, 90, 120 volts at various amperages. see this link, about halfway down the page. http://www.kelk.co.jp/english/useful/netsuden3.html
modern thermopiles are usually not so good with higher temperatures.
forget the candle and get some strontium-90 ;)
edit: more info on the TEG lantern. the page the navitron link came from.
http://www.audiodesignline.com/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=175700512
Yes I have seen all of those! Very cool stuff...the first one is ok. Anyway I think I am gonna play with a laminar flow sterling for power gen. I ordered a piston and cylinder from airpot.com. Cant wait to see what comes of it.
Quote from: unzapped on January 14, 2010, 03:43:06 PM
Yes I have seen all of those! Very cool stuff...the first one is ok. Anyway I think I am gonna play with a laminar flow sterling for power gen. I ordered a piston and cylinder from airpot.com. Cant wait to see what comes of it.
sweet. stirling engines are fun stuff. hope you show us what comes of yours.
Oh I will!!! I cant wait to share some more... I have been on this kick of just building stuff... Ever since I quit smoking... Hmmm. Maybe smoking makes you stupid... I probably will only share that which is repeatable... The rest is boring failure after failure
Hey, failure is how we discover what does NOT work...equally important to finding what DOES work.
If I made a Youtube video of my failures, it would be way too large a file to upload.
Bill
Quote from: unzapped on January 14, 2010, 03:43:06 PM
Yes I have seen all of those! Very cool stuff...the first one is ok. Anyway I think I am gonna play with a laminar flow sterling for power gen. I ordered a piston and cylinder from airpot.com. Cant wait to see what comes of it.
Unzapped
Looks like some really nice cylinders at that site.
I have never heard of a laminar flow sterling.
Can you tell me a little more about it?
I can't imagine how you would make a sterling with just one cylinder .......unless you are using it for the smaller piston on a displacment type stering
gary
Gary,
See here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-d8TGYanAtk
I am actually engineering this to be sold as a kit I think... Cuz i cant find one for less than $99... lol
These are really cool. Not sure it is truly laminar flow...maybe more of a heat engine... Some call it thermoacoustic...
UZ
Quote from: unzapped on January 19, 2010, 08:25:48 AM
Gary,
See here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-d8TGYanAtk
I am actually engineering this to be sold as a kit I think... Cuz i cant find one for less than $99... lol
These are really cool. Not sure it is truly laminar flow...maybe more of a heat engine... Some call it thermoacoustic...
UZ
Unzapped
Thermocaustic is something I have never heard of before......It makes sense though.
I was trying to see how it could be a sterling but not understanding it.
To me the name thermocaustic seems to be seems to be saying that something is being burnt .....
If it is burning something....that something will have to be replaced.
If I was you I would go with a simple sterling..........burning anything is a dirty process......... a sterling would run clean for its entire life.
Do you understand how sterlings work?
If you don't I can explain it ....... at first they are hard to understand........but they are probably the most simple most elegant engine ever made.
gary
Quote from: unzapped on January 19, 2010, 08:25:48 AM
I am actually engineering this to be sold as a kit I think... Cuz i cant find one for less than $99... lol
Unzapped
Do you have the resources to have some parts made up?
Most of my background is with simple machines.......I know nothing about electronics.,,,,,,,except what I have learned on this thread.
gary
Gary thank you! I am very clear on the stirling process... and in fact I believe that a laminar flow is a stirling process... the two cylinders hot\cold are inline but the single piston actuates both airflows...
When the piston draws out warm air flows the cool side to be cooled, when then it gets compressed back to the hot side to be warmed back up... this is a true stirling cycle in its most basic form IMO.
Feel free to correct me if I am wrong...
I do not have resources the aluminum spec'd parts, however once I get the CAD done I will forward you the specs... I am more than happy to pay someone here for the cnc stuff. Nothing would make me happier...
I will also be learning some more about electronics... as I will need a circuit board engineered as well... If you can think of someone... point them here!!! :)
Thanks!
UZ