have a small motor spin a weight attached to a lever and this causes leverage work to a load (a bigger motor?).
in this simulation the spring is a "load".
would the load have sufficient energy to feed the small motor? would this machine self run?
i have attached the phun file to this post inside a zip file, enjoy.
Hey thanks FreeEnergy, i'd never heard of Phun before it's great !
Gary.
Phun is fun!
I liked the simulation, but the problem is that we can't measure the energy spent by the motor...
This simulation raises one more time the question: is it possible to use a lever to "leverage" energy?
Is there a way to do this?
my take on a lever after going through the whole lever thing with the sword of god and Archer...
I believe no matter what you do the same amount of work a lever works like a pulley or gear on your bike....
You still do the same amount of work it just makes the work easier lets say to compress a spring it takes 1 inch but a 5lbs of force with your bare hands you use a lever to compress the same spring it takes only 1lb of force well I will be damned but guess what you are no longer going 1" to do this instead you are moving 5" with 1lb of force was there really any net gain?
Okay, now it's my time!!
I just discovered a bug on Phun (or is it a free energy device? :o)
Here is the link to download the .PHZ file:
http://www.drivehq.com/file/df.aspx/shareID7120139/fileID517104612/leveraged_pendulum.phz
(leveraged_pendulum.phz)
I couldn't upload the file to this thread here at Overunity.com because it's larger than 300 kb.
Fell free to download the file and test it with your version of Phun on your computer.
I will tell you what is happening on my computer:
When I press the "Play" button, my "leveraged pendulum" is static...
Then, I use the "rotate" tool of Phun to rotate the 11 kg steel ball at the lower end of the pendulum, I rotate it about 80 degrees (more than 70 degress, less than 90 degrees). Then, I let the ball fall freely, and the pendulum, as we should expect, starts to swing...
BUT... A strange thing happens: instead of going "less high" at each swing, the ball starts to go higher at each swing!! Then, I become bored of seeing the ball swing and I accelerate the "simulation speed" to 10x. The ball still going higher at each swing, until a moment when it simple... makes a complete rotation!!!! And another complete rotation, and another, and another... And it starts to accelerate!!! And it rotates faster and faster, never stopping!!!
It is probably a bug on Phun algoritm, but, let we be optimists: it could be a perpetuum mobile! ;D
Please, run this simulation on your computers and tell me if you are getting equal results...
I had split the file in two using WinRar.
You can download bellow the two parts (leveraged_pendulum.part1.rar and leveraged_pendulum.part2.rar) and mount the file using WinRar.
Please try it with your computer!
I need to know if it happening just on my computer, or if it is a bug of Phun algoritm (or a true perpetuum mobile ???)
I posted a video on YouTube of the simulation running on my computer:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eyKRF6SH3eU
thanks for the response guys.
now the only thing left is to try this in real life.
maybe someone can build this to test it out.
@rapadura i think it's only your computer because nothing is happening on my side, the pendulum just sits there and barely moves back and forth.
LOOK AT THIS!
1 weak motor vs 2 strong motors! wow some interesting results here.
weak motor's strength is 100 Nm with 32 rpm.
the other 2 strong motors each has strength of 500 Nm with 10 rpm.
--- download the attached file :)
regarding my last post. try lowering the strength and rpm for the spinning weight and see results.
looking good!
a very low strength, high rpm motor vs very strong motors.
see attachment file.
-- EDIT -- see above for corrections:
Most people here on OverUnity REFUSE to look at ZIP Files & RAR Files. They are a LOT of trouble & totally unnecessary.
Please post regular files like everybody else & you will get a much BIGGER response.
Thank you.
.
I think you are wasting your time with a faulty program... it's not that people never tried such things...eventually they found out it doesn't work.
Quote from: FreeEnergy on May 11, 2010, 01:17:26 AM
@rapadura i think it's only your computer because nothing is happening on my side, the pendulum just sits there and barely moves back and forth.
Did you used the "Rotate" tool to rise the ball about 80 degrees, and let it fall freely?
It's like if you were using your hand to rise a pendulum and then let it fall freely....
Look the YouTube video of the simulation running on my computer:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eyKRF6SH3eU
It can't be only my computer! It has to be a PHUN bug, or something else...
Quote from: gauschor on May 11, 2010, 08:14:24 AM
I think you are wasting your time with a faulty program... it's not that people never tried such things...eventually they found out it doesn't work.
PHUN is usually a good software... My "perpertual motion" simulation can be a bug, or not... Well, if it is a bug we will at least alert PHUN developers about it...
how do i record my simulations? i don't have a camera or software to record with.
Quote from: FreeEnergy on May 11, 2010, 08:55:57 AM
how do i record my simulations? i don't have a camera or software to record with.
I use AutoScreenRecorder 3.1:
http://www.baixaki.com.br/download/autoscreenrecorder.htm
(as a brazilian, you won't have problem to understand Baixaki)
Ok, I just did an adaptation of the "leveraged pendulum" of my last video. In this new PHUN simulation, the "lever" is attached to a horizontal support, wich has the side effect of not permitting the steel ball to rise more than 90 degrees. Anyway, the pendulum still never stopping.
Look the video on YouTube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fEGAqvYzrUM
And bellow are the two parts of the .PHZ file, that I split using WinRar because the file was larger than 300 kb, that is the maximum file size to upload here at overunity.com
Please, try it in your computers!! You have to achieve similar results to mine!
Just download the 2 parts, mount it with WinRar and use PHUN to open the file "Perpetuum_mobile.phz". Then, just click on the "Play" button (the green one) and look what happens.
The steel ball goes higher and higher at each swing, until it reaches 90 degrees and shocks against the horizontal support. It still shocking against the support forever, at each swing, and never stops!
Let me clarify a thing here: I'm not using any kind of motor in this simulation.
There are no motors. Just a steel ball attached to an end of a "lever". I call it "leveraged pendulum".
It can't run only in my computer. Anyone who try to run it using PHUN have to achieve the same results...
For those who don't have PHUN, you can make the free download at this page:
http://www.phunland.com/wiki/Download
Run my simulations in your computers, please! I have to know if you are getting the same results!
I'm with the FatBird ;+}
And ye, it's more likely to be bad simulation code.
If you want industry-quality sim get Autodesk Inventor.
But phun is fun tho :)
Gary.
What a fucking hell is happening here????
So, if my simulation works, it's because Phun is a "bad software"????
Nobody is even interested in downloading the .PHZ files and try it for yourself???
I can't believe it's happening! What are all of you afraid of? Do you think it is a virus that will destroy your computers?
Is it any joke? No, no, no, I can't believe that some many hours before nobody has confirmed yet the results I got....
There have been many cases of people here getting similar results as you on working model, and some other programs.
Build it for real, and see what happens.
Quote from: Rapadura on May 11, 2010, 10:55:57 AM
I use AutoScreenRecorder 3.1:
http://www.baixaki.com.br/download/autoscreenrecorder.htm (http://www.baixaki.com.br/download/autoscreenrecorder.htm)
(as a brazilian, you won't have problem to understand Baixaki)
obrigado :)
i use ubuntu as the main OS. wine can not seem to run this properly. will have to run this in my virtual box running win7.
Quote from: dirt diggler on May 11, 2010, 10:00:02 PM
There have been many cases of people here getting similar results as you on working model, and some other programs.
Build it for real, and see what happens.
Okay, WHEN people here test my simulation on other computers, and TELL ME that the simulation is working, and it don't work just on my computer, then I can think about building it for real.
When someone tells me that my simulation really works, then I can take a real steel ball with density of
7.8 kg/m³ and weighing
11 kg, and a real world wooden rod with density of
0.6 kg/m³ and
weighing 2.6 kg, and low friction hinge bearings, and build a "leveraged pendulum" in the real world,
exactly equal to that in the simulation.
Quote from: Rapadura on May 12, 2010, 07:39:03 AM
Okay, WHEN people here test my simulation on other computers, and TELL ME that the simulation is working, and it don't work just on my computer, then I can think about building it for real.
When someone tells me that my simulation really works, then I can take a real steel ball with density of 7.8 kg/m³ and weighing 11 kg, and a real world wooden rod with density of 0.6 kg/m³ and weighing 2.6 kg, and low friction hinge bearings, and build a "leveraged pendulum" in the real world, exactly equal to that in the simulation.
Rapadura
A real build would be easy, and only a real build will give you a real answer.
Alan
Cool! Just discovered phun, I like it a lot, but I def think its just a glitch man.
I recommend people try their proposed overunity
devices in phun, because if it doesn't work in phun
it probably won't work in the real world as well, for the
same reasons. It's difficult to build a device in phun
because there is no "drafting" capability (that I know
of) that lets you do exact symmetry for parts etc.
Finally, I don't think Phun takes into account wind
resistance and frictional losses, so simulations in
phun are somewhat more energetic than devices
in the real world...Ultimately though, no fully
deterministic simulator (gets the same answer
with the same input every time its run) can take
into account random chaotic events that spring up from
quantum randomness. This would have to be added
as an analysis of margins expressed as probabilities.
For example, "there is .001% probability that the machine
would stop in this cycle." These things do effect stuff
that happens in the real world and shows reality can
*never* fully be simulated in fully deterministic
computing environments.
:S:MarkSCoffman
"reality can never fully be simulated"
-that's a good one, I like it! 8)
Peace
PHUN takes in account energy losses due to air friction. You can easily verify it if you increase the air friction in the "Advanced mode".
Now, I want to know why I'm BEGGING here to someone test my simulation and see if it really works, and NOBODY did this charity to me yet...
How many time I will have to humiliate myself, begging to someone test my .PHZ files? I won't stop until someone confirms that the pendulum never stops!
I won't try a real world build until somenone confirms my simulation. It's so easy, and has no cost, why nobody wants to help me?
Rapadura
are you sure that all losses of the pendulum are
include in the software MATH ??
Or must the pendulum hang in free air ?
In free "vacuum" it calculate better to have no losts.
GP
Quote from: pese on May 12, 2010, 03:07:10 PM
Rapadura
are you sure that all losses of the pendulum are
include in the software MATH ??
Or must the pendulum hang in free air ?
In free "vacuum" it calculate better to have no losts.
GP
@pese,
I'm using PHUN for more than 2 months now, and I can assure you that it's a good software, with complex algoritm, and it take in account air friction AND friction in the bearings.
The proof is simple: if you build a "non-leveraged" pendulum with PHUN, and let it swing freely, it will eventually stop. If you use the option to "turn off air friction" (what is the equivalent of put the device in a vacuum chamber), the "non-leveraged" pendulum will swing for more time (because it has no air friction), but it will stop sometime, because of friction in the bearings.
After 2 months "playing" with PHUN it's the first time that I see a device that never stops... And I'm very confused with it... I know it can be a bug, but there is a chance it is a real perpetual motion setup!
hi,
looked at your simulation and to me it's just a simple pendulum that you hang and let it swing. It should stop just like any other pendulum. am i missing something?
you say it's a "leveraged pendulum", when all i see is a pendulum. where is the leverage input to feed this pendulum?
Quote from: FreeEnergy on May 13, 2010, 02:10:15 PM
hi,
looked at your simulation and to me it's just a simple pendulum that you hang and let it swing. It should stop just like any other pendulum. am i missing something?
you say it's a "leveraged pendulum", when all i see is a pendulum. where is the leverage input to feed this pendulum?
@FreeEnergy:
"It should stop just like any other pendulum" - you're right. It
"should" stop. But it don't stop! Do you think I know why? I simply don't know!
Just look the video of simulation on YouTube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eyKRF6SH3eU
Do you see what happens? The steel ball goes higher and higher at each swing, what is totally unexpected.
Did you run the simulation on you computer? My cousin did, and he got the same results. I emailed the .phz files to him and asked him to run the simulations. Now he thinks I'm crazy. But he confirms the pendulum never stops, and goes higher and higher, until it starts to spin, and never stops to spin.
I don't know why it happens, but I have a guess:
the effect of the lever. The wooden rod where the ball is attached is
a lever, with arms of unequal lengths. I think the lever is making the ball rise "a little more" than it should rise at each swing.
Please, don't tell me about the Second Law of Thermodynamics. We know it has only a barely statistical aplication... There's no reason to the nature to "respect" the second law of thermodynamics. "Conservation of energy" don't make sense to nature, because nature don't know what a hell is "energy". Energy is a human concept. Nature only knows electrons, photons, etc...
I downloaded Phun and ran the files you gave, while I am thankfull for showing me phun(lol) I don't understand what your on about, its just a glitch, and it IS a BETA version of a learning program for KIDS.
Quote from: PYRODIN123321 on May 13, 2010, 04:23:42 PM
I downloaded Phun and ran the files you gave, while I am thankfull for showing me phun(lol) I don't understand what your on about, its just a glitch, and it IS a BETA version of a learning program for KIDS.
Well, we can try this using Algodoo, that is the commercial version of PHUN. But my trial version of Algodoo already expired...