Here is a design I made for a water fountain to perpetuate but it does not seem to work, however I'm still playing with it and thinking of ways to improve it, its late here but ill post it with a brief description of how I thought it would operate...
At the top is an air filled balloon, this balloon is giving a constant downward air pressure into the bottom Air Tight Pressure Chamber. Due to the air pressure in the bottom chamber via the balloon, it tries to force the water up the tube which is connected to the top chamber. The top chamber also has water in which it filters the water down into the bottom chamber without letting the air escape. due to the filtering of the water, it increases the pressure in the bottom chamber even more causing the water in the bottom chamber to be forced up the tube refilling the top chamber...
the cycle just repeats
Alex
Alex
That is an interesting proposal, but IMO I think the water and air would redistribute (equalization) out through the system and then stop also the air bubbles may go back up the drip area until the air in the top and the fluid in the bottom. But here are a couple of videos on pressure fountains from youtube that may help. They are cool.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ye8zDnhxMLs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z5LpJAR3cM0
Alan
Herons water fountain is what inspired me to attempt this, i made herons water fountain then decided to design my own but so it would perpetuate. I have started to study the elements in order to gain an understanding of nature. I have learned why the waves move, why the wind blows etc and how all the elements depend on each other to keep going and how the opposites in nature balance things out, it is my opinion that perpetual motion is brought about from balanced equal opposites working together with the elements to cause the motion, im still learning though...
This design is supposed to work according to nature but some things are wrong somewhere. Bubbles do travel up where the water filters through, i need to stop the air getting through but allow the water through, anyone know how i may do this? Sponge maybe? also the top chamber shouldn't be airtight because it stops the water from getting in...
I have tested that the balloon can raise the water up into the tube and fill the top chamber (not air tight) and it does, but the balloon deflates as it does this, to keep the balloon inflated, the water must then filter back through to keep the pressure constant, but like you say it might equal out, or the filtering of the water might increase the pressure more and raise the water up. The water must filter through into the bottom chamber at the same amount and speed as the tube at the top releases the water into the top chamber, if it works then its possible the speed will sort itself out because the filtering of the water is what the tube relies on to pump the water up... below is a drawings of my latest design...
P.S I think that Besslers number 5 clue is pointing at the 5 elements, he even mentions them in one of his books...
Alex
this might solve the problem.
edit - forgot to add the attachment.
Thanks for your effort, I also thought of that, whats happens is this, if you blow down the tube (instead of balloon) the water gets forced up both tubes emptying the water from the bottom chamber and filling the top chamber up, once you stop blowing, the water lowers back to its starts point. Its interesting to note two things, when you stop blowing and cover the hole with your finger, it holds the water in place. If you let the water drop again, it stops soon as the surface of the water in the bottom chamber touches the tube you blow down... The falling/filtering of the water to the bottom chamber must but be a one way thing so that water can escape out of the top chamber into the bottom chamber without letting the air or water escape from the bottom chamber.
Also if you make the top chamber airtight also then the water is prevented from being pumped up either tube.
Here may be a good way firstly to test weather or not the constant pressure supplied by the balloon (without deflating) can cause the water to rise up the tube, and if so, then a way needs to be found to "re connect" the water into a loop. Below is a picture of the same machine, except like before, both chambers are now air tight again and both contain water. However, the end of the hose from which the water is lifted is in open air so when the balloon increases the air pressure in the bottom chamber, the water is forced up the tube. The trapped air in the bottom tank shouldn't be able to push the water back up into the top tank as the top tank is also filled with water and air making "no room" for more water than is already in. Soon as some water leaves the hose, the water in the top tank will lower releasing the pressure so if indeed it does this, then the hose needs to feed the water back into the top chamber without loosing air pressure out of the top chamber and therefore the thing will perpetuate because its keeping a constant, steady balance...
Edit: In fact this theory seems simple: You increase a balanced and constant pressure on water causing it to be raised high enough to over flow back into the system keepings it a constant, balanced pressure...
Alex
Greetings Alex
Look at adding a bellows for your air and use the weight of the upper water to help control it.
Alan
less water at the bottom and more air pressure.
and at the top the more water the better, probably better adding more water horizontally than vertical.
what about this?
captures more heat to form air pressure.
-edit- made changes to attachment.
drawing deleted
sorry i made a big mistake on my last drawing.
i have fixed that! see attachment:
?
I disagree, the earth is surrounded by atmosphere that acts like an air tight chamber, the atmospheric pressure/ air pressure pushes down onto the ground and causes wind, the wind moves the waves and so on, it is my opinion that a constant, balanced pressure is partly the answer to perpetuate something. The balloon is supplying a downward pressure just like the atmosphere does, the perpetuating water is what will keep that balloon from deflating yet at the same time its keeps the water lifted up... To me, its about harnessing the weight, not the movement of the weight...
just for some examples, consider these...
Blood Pressures
Bladder Pressures
Atmospheric/Air Pressures
Sea Pressures
Volcanic Pressures
Pressure is a force that Nature uses in so many different ways, air weighs less than water, yet air pressure can lift up water so this is why I think that pressure in any form can cause perpetual motion...
There is a lot more I have learned about nature and I'm sure the answer lies within it...
Alex
Alex
My biggest concern is that fluid always finds it's level. But it will take pressure to get it to function.
A hoax is only when you try to pass it off as something it is not, and studying is not a hoax. It has to have a claim, not just an opinion in planning.
Alan
the only thing left to do is to actually build a working model.
Quote from: P-Motion on June 06, 2010, 08:07:31 AM
Well, you can see the shit I'm getting for trying. It's probably better to do what Alex and Alan are doing. Find someone who is building, then attack them.
It keeps everryone from observing one small fact, 2 actually, neither one of them is posting a build they will ever do and this idea of Alex's breaks the spoken and written PM rule of not using compressed air.
And I'm certain Alan supports this design as being credible. When the moderator disregards what is accepted in the PM community, that forum can not be considered crdible.
What the heck rule is this about compressed air? If this is a rule, I have been here a long time and I did not get the memo. As was already explained to you, it would depend how the air was used. As in, Expensif's free energy rotating all magnet motor which in reality was powered by a hair dryer blowing air to make it turn. OK, that is a fraud as he said that it was the magnetic repulsion that made it turn. he was also selling them on E-bay. This is fraud and fakery.
If someone says..."Here is the compressed air (balloon) and it feeds into this...etc." then this is part of the design and not fraud. Others may point out that the energy required to compress the air is higher than the output energy but, this is a legitimate disagreement and again, not fraud.
There are cars and motorcycles that now run on compressed air and for a lot cheaper than buying gas. Is this a fraud or fakery too?
Bill
The balloons pressure raises the water up the tube and over the edge which is higher than the actual water pressure, the water just needs to get back into the airtight chamber to perpetuate and this is what I'm trying to figure out. Maybe a sponge could do it, like seep the water through.
Jim If you think that's a fraud then ok but continue with your own designs and stay out of mine and we ill be ok :)
Alex
@ p-motion:
Really?
I guess you are wrong because Alex just did. And so have about a thousand others I could name. Did you not see the part of my post about the compressed air powered cars and motorcycles? Hello? Please try to pay attention here.
Bill
Yea I have made it and still working on it until I hopefully and finally make it perpetuate. With everything, there needs to be a power source and in this case, its the balloon keeping a constant pressure to lift the water up and around which in turn prevents the balloon from deflating...
Alex
Alex:
So, in your design, the balloon is an energy storage device, like a capacitor, not a power source. This is not fakery in my opinion. (memo or no memo.)
This is an interesting approach.
Bill
@all
As long as compressed air is used as a spring...As in what is
technically known as an "accumulator" analogous to a capacitor
*and no pressure is lost". I don't see why compressed air
could not be used in a perpetual motion machine. But if pressure
in the balloon is permanently lost during operation it is not
perpetual motion.
Compressed air acting against water is not the best perpetual
set- up because the air will slowly lose O2 and CO2 into the
water chemically. But there maybe systems of fluids and gases
that could be setup to work better. For example nitrogen is less
reactive. One needs a gas that has a low "partial pressure" in
the liquid.
I am not currently making a statement about the device in question,
just about compressed air and gases in general.
---
The other thing is there may be a "fluid state" analogy to "dipping
bird" that use heat lost to evaporation that could do something.
For example if you use methyl chloride below the balloon? pressing
against a diaphragm against water and have the water go up and
fall on the balloon as the balloon got cooler it would shrink and when
it warmed up again it would expand...Then you could set up a Lord
Kelvin water dropper electrostatic generator...H'mmm.
---
There is also that Chinese paper water water wheel that seems to
use expansion paper in water, suppose one could use expansion of
a sponge in water to do something.
:S:MarkCoffman
see what i see?
.
i just had another crazy idea :D
white = sealed air
blue = water
green = float-chain. for buoyancy!
Quote from: Pirate88179 on June 06, 2010, 09:03:32 AM
Alex:
So, in your design, the balloon is an energy storage device, like a capacitor, not a power source. This is not fakery in my opinion. (memo or no memo.)
This is an interesting approach.
Bill
That's it, the balloon is an energy storage device like the atmospheric pressure from the earths atmosphere which covers the entire globe.
The pressure from the balloon alone will raise the water up and keep it up without deflating so long as the water falls back into the airtight chamber without releasing the air...
Alex
Hay Alex
I still have concern of air escaping back through for something to be air tight will also be water tight. I do have an idea to help with this. On the water going back down to the lower tank. The idea is, use a paddle wheel and a sectional water pump which should IMO keep the fluids flowing into the lower tank and also help keep the air pressure up. It will take some designing for this so don't change what your are doing this is only an idea. I will send you the design later this week.
Alan
guys please tell me why my idea will not work in my last drawing, please!
looks like a winner to me.
Quote from: FreeEnergy on June 07, 2010, 01:03:05 PM
guys please tell me why my idea will not work in my last drawing, please!
looks like a winner to me.
Sorry FreeEnergy
You will have the same pressure high and low. So it shows equilibrium, and no action.
Quote from: AB Hammer on June 07, 2010, 01:39:21 PM
Sorry FreeEnergy
You will have the same pressure high and low. So it shows equilibrium, and no action.
the air and water is in equilibrium high and low but the green chain-float is floating up in water and on the other side it falls do to gravity.
so what's wrong with it?
Ill have a look at it for you but could you draw it more accurately like leave gaps where the tube fits through etc... To me it seems that the water wont hold up but lower and raising the air up...
Alex
you're right it wont work.
sorry for the interruptions, i wont be posting any more new ideas on this thread.
Quote from: FreeEnergy on June 07, 2010, 04:07:38 PM
you're right it wont work.
sorry for the interruptions, i wont be posting any more new ideas on this thread.
Your ideas are good, continue to post your ideas, they are interesting, I am at the moment working on some ideas which soon ill be building then updating the forum with :D
Alex
Quote from: Alexioco on June 10, 2010, 04:05:16 PM
Your ideas are good, continue to post your ideas, they are interesting, I am at the moment working on some ideas which soon ill be building then updating the forum with :D
Alex
thanks for that but for now i am empty on free energy ideas. :D