http://specials.msn.com/A-List/Jailed-for-debt.aspx?cp-documentid=24753001&imageindex=1 (http://specials.msn.com/A-List/Jailed-for-debt.aspx?cp-documentid=24753001&imageindex=1)
this article makes it sound like the theives (if you don't pay for what you contract for, what else would you call them?) are the victims. at some point, they made the conscious decision to not pay. for me, that's the same as stealing.
i understand life can present unexpected problems. this is no excuse to ignore what you have already commited to. if you find you can't make your payments, call and try to work something out. don't ignore it for so long that it has to be turned over to a collector. after all, the people you owe the money to, count on your payment to live on too.
as for the police arresting people, i'm sure some bussiness (or collection agent) didn't just phone up and say "go get these people for me". the only way i know that they will take action is to have a warrant (court order) to act on. if you let it go this long, all i can say is "SHAME ON YOU!!".
i could be wrong but from what i understand being in debt is not a crime.
if you are in debt and can't pay than the only thing they can do is take back any property that you bought with the credit and make you have a bad credit score. but throwing you in jail? im not sure about that.
if you don't show up for court after being summoned, you will be charged with "contemp of court" and the judge will issue a warrant for your arrest.
being in debt is not a crime, but if you fail to take care of your debt, you can be sued. if found in favor of the party suing, a judgement will be brought against you. if you fail to comply, that is against the law, etc....
just think about it. if there were no concerquince for not paying your bills, why would anyone pay?
i remember a time when honor was enough to insure paying, sealed with a hand shake. people would go hungry in order to pay before skipping out on a deal.
what's next? people get the death penalty for being in debt!
then the ARP goes down dramatically world wide.
maybe a form of population reduction on earth?
;)
i did a little looking around and found this........
http://www.fairloanrate.com/2009/04/23/can-you-end-up-in-jail-for-non-payment-of-your-credit-card-debt/
you will see we are both right in our thinking, at least to some degree.
we do live in the greatest country in the world!! i just hope we don't turn into something we didn't bargain for.
Quote from: tbird on July 05, 2010, 02:50:44 PM
if you don't show up for court after being summoned, you will be charged with "contemp of court" and the judge will issue a warrant for your arrest.
being in debt is not a crime, but if you fail to take care of your debt, you can be sued. if found in favor of the party suing, a judgement will be brought against you. if you fail to comply, that is against the law, etc....
just think about it. if there were no concerquince for not paying your bills, why would anyone pay?
i remember a time when honor was enough to insure paying, sealed with a hand shake. people would go hungry in order to pay before skipping out on a deal.
Millions upon millions of people waking up to the fact that owing money to credit cards and mortgages is the BIGGEST FRAUD on this planet.
When you take out a mortgage the so called debt was PAID IN FULL by the banks within 30 mins of you signing the agreement. The bank raised the credit and no money actually changed hands it was created out of thin air! Its only a computer entry nothing more.
BUT then you pay with hard earned cash for the next 25 years plus interest which is typical 3 times the value of the so called loan. Remember the principle was raised for FREE so the bank earns 4 times the value for ZERO payout. This is why they make billions of profit.
Credit cards are the same scam. No money is used its ILLEGAL for a bank or card company to actually use its own funds so the credit is raised from your signature. Your payments are hard core cash and is typically all profit for the bank.
If you default a debt collector buys the debt from the bank for around 10% of the balance. The debt collector agency takes a risk you will pay more then 10% so they are Bottom Feeders of the scam!
Lawfully 100% of the agreements are UNLAWFUL as no disclosure was ever given about this scam and no real money was ever lent to you in the first place.
So anyone in debt don't feel ashamed the average person in the G20 countries now "owes" 15k each on CC cards and bank loans excluding mortgages. This is done intentionally to ENSLAVE you.
The system is rigged so money is ALWAYS in short supply so that 30% of the people and business MUST default to pay for the top 1% of the rich.
The banks and credit card co's use SCARE tactics and threats to make you pay. Tell them to take a hike and show you where the original source of funding came from and where is the lawful contract....there is none its all a game!
And then file BR and tell them to stick it. No court will
side with you as if they did, the whole system would fold
in on its self.
As for the bottom feeders, force it to court and ask them
to produce a "contract signed by you" with them. They cant
and only use fear and threats to bully you into paying it.
thay
Bolt is 100% spot on....... its a depressing world we live in....
I am enslaved :( 8k, its not the end of the world lol, but annoying none the less. I have a bit over an ounce of gold and 10 ounces of silver............ that's REAL assets, screw the banks... I would rather owe imaginary funds - i.e. Money and hold onto true value - Gold,Silver etc etc
i am saddened by the post coming in here.
QuoteWhen you take out a mortgage the so called debt was PAID IN FULL by the banks within 30 mins of you signing the agreement. The bank raised the credit and no money actually changed hands it was created out of thin air! Its only a computer entry nothing more
if this is true, what is the seller recieving that allows him to withdraw cash or write a check or anything that requires money (up to the value of his share of the mortgage)?
QuoteBUT then you pay with hard earned cash for the next 25 years plus interest which is typical 3 times the value of the so called loan. Remember the principle was raised for FREE so the bank earns 4 times the value for ZERO payout. This is why they make billions of profit.
the reason you pay so much is for the privilege of using someone else's money for such a long time. if it weren't for people (banks) willing to LEND you that money, you would have to continue living in that shack until you saved enough of your own money to buy it outright. with attitudes that i'm seeing here, it's no wonder banks have cut back on lending!
QuoteCredit cards are the same scam. No money is used its ILLEGAL for a bank or card company to actually use its own funds so the credit is raised from your signature. Your payments are hard core cash and is typically all profit for the bank.
really??!! then what do you call the stuff i get on my credit card? what do you call the stuff given to the party i got my stuff from? can they not now get other stuff they want? can't they pay staff (from the profits they made on the stuff) that helped me get my stuff? if this is not money, what is? the only profit cc companies get is from service fees and interest on unpaid balances. if you elect to not pay your balance, you are contributing directly to the profits of the credit card companies. have a look at the balance after you make a payment. i'm sure the balance was not reduced anywhere near the amount you paid.
QuoteIf you default a debt collector buys the debt from the bank for around 10% of the balance. The debt collector agency takes a risk you will pay more then 10% so they are Bottom Feeders of the scam!
the only thing lower than these bottom feeders are the people who they are feeding on! if everyone paid their bills (or at least talked to the people they owe and made arrangements of some sort to settle the debt), these guys would be out of business!
more to come......
QuoteLawfully 100% of the agreements are UNLAWFUL as no disclosure was ever given about this scam and no real money was ever lent to you in the first place.
what do you call real money? if you don't count the money "on the books", so to speak, but only counted the cash and coins as real money, there would only be about 2-3% available to use. if that's all we had, how much would you have? how much would your boss have? how much tax revenue could the government collect to pay for all your benefits? before wilson created the federal reserve, we had gold to back our money. that's why the country actually went thru periods of deflation and restored the value of the $$. but since we can now just print more money, we only end up with inflation. using the rule of 72 (In finance, the rule of 72, the rule of 70 and the rule of 69 are methods for estimating an investment's doubling time. The number in the title is divided by the interest percentage per period to obtain the approximate number of periods (usually years) required for doubling) we see that even at a small rate of 3% inflation, in only 24 years things will cost twice as much!! and your $ will only buy half as much stuff. now, who still likes inflation?
QuoteSo anyone in debt don't feel ashamed the average person in the G20 countries now "owes" 15k each on CC cards and bank loans excluding mortgages. This is done intentionally to ENSLAVE you.
no one twisted your arm to go into debt. if you are enslaved, you can't blame anyone but yourself. it may not be as comfortable a lifestyle without debt, but at least you'll be free.
QuoteThe system is rigged so money is ALWAYS in short supply so that 30% of the people and business MUST default to pay for the top 1% of the rich.
don't blame the rich for your short comings. statements like this only reflects your jealousy. you think because you haven't tried hard enough and didn't become rich, the ones that did are bad guys. most people today don't really know what hard work and effort is. if only 1% are rich, this proves my point. but let's carry this one step further. if you are not in business for yourself (which i believe this to be the case because if you were, you would have more respect for the rich), then you are working for someone who is, a rich guy. without those rich guys, how many jobs would there be? how many poor guys have you worked for? did you get paid? need i say more?
QuoteThe banks and credit card co's use SCARE tactics and threats to make you pay. Tell them to take a hike and show you where the original source of funding came from and where is the lawful contract....there is none its all a game!
really??!! are you telling me before you would make a payment, of any kind, someone would have to call you and "use SCARE tactics and threats"? i think not! most of us really want to do the right thing. even though not paying would allow us to have a night out or some other luxury, we know we owe for what we already have aquired. there is something satisfying about doing the right thing.
this general attitude of selfishness is human nature. the country of men (and women) who fight this flaw will be admired and envied around the world. this has been the case for our country in times gone by. let's all do our share to restore this way of life.
i could go on, but for now, i'll give it a rest.
Quote from: tbird on July 07, 2010, 08:05:06 AM
the reason you pay so much is for the privilege of using someone else's money for such a long time. if it weren't for people (banks) willing to LEND you that money, you would have to continue living in that shack until you saved enough of your own money to buy it outright. with attitudes that i'm seeing here, it's no wonder banks have cut back on lending!
so why do i not get paid the same when the banks use MY money for such a long time (ie:savings, checking accounts, etc.) hell, i shouldn't even have to go to the bank to get my money... the money they are profiting off of, they should have a representative bring it to me rather than having me go get it and be charged a fee on top!
Quote from: tbird on July 07, 2010, 08:05:06 AM
really??!! then what do you call the stuff i get on my credit card? what do you call the stuff given to the party i got my stuff from? can they not now get other stuff they want? can't they pay staff (from the profits they made on the stuff) that helped me get my stuff? if this is not money, what is? the only profit cc companies get is from service fees and interest on unpaid balances. if you elect to not pay your balance, you are contributing directly to the profits of the credit card companies. have a look at the balance after you make a payment. i'm sure the balance was not reduced anywhere near the amount you paid.
it's not money, it's credit, which is illegal (read the papers that founded this government). money is a tangible substance, credit is not.
Quote from: tbird on July 07, 2010, 08:05:06 AM
the only thing lower than these bottom feeders are the people who they are feeding on! if everyone paid their bills (or at least talked to the people they owe and made arrangements of some sort to settle the debt), these guys would be out of business!
now you're just being silly, they wouldn't be out of business, they would change their model to somehow charge you something for nothing...
Quote from: tbird on July 07, 2010, 09:05:43 AM
what do you call real money? if you don't count the money "on the books", so to speak, but only counted the cash and coins as real money, there would only be about 2-3% available to use. if that's all we had, how much would you have? how much would your boss have? how much tax revenue could the government collect to pay for all your benefits? before wilson created the federal reserve, we had gold to back our money. that's why the country actually went thru periods of deflation and restored the value of the $$. but since we can now just print more money, we only end up with inflation. using the rule of 72 (In finance, the rule of 72, the rule of 70 and the rule of 69 are methods for estimating an investment's doubling time. The number in the title is divided by the interest percentage per period to obtain the approximate number of periods (usually years) required for doubling) we see that even at a small rate of 3% inflation, in only 24 years things will cost twice as much!! and your $ will only buy half as much stuff. now, who still likes inflation?
real money is something of substance. something tangible. you want this gallon of milk i have, and i want a silver dollar in return. SUBSTANCE FOR SUBSTANCE.
Quote from: tbird on July 07, 2010, 09:05:43 AM
no one twisted your arm to go into debt. if you are enslaved, you can't blame anyone but yourself. it may not be as comfortable a lifestyle without debt, but at least you'll be free.
well said!
Quote from: tbird on July 07, 2010, 09:05:43 AM
don't blame the rich for your short comings. statements like this only reflects your jealousy. you think because you haven't tried hard enough and didn't become rich, the ones that did are bad guys. most people today don't really know what hard work and effort is. if only 1% are rich, this proves my point. but let's carry this one step further. if you are not in business for yourself (which i believe this to be the case because if you were, you would have more respect for the rich), then you are working for someone who is, a rich guy. without those rich guys, how many jobs would there be? how many poor guys have you worked for? did you get paid? need i say more?
and then you follow it up with this? LOL, many people have tried hard and did not become rich. many people have gone into business for themselves and had situations beyond their control put them pemanently out of business... your reply is disingenuous, there would be just as many jobs with or without rich people...
Quote from: tbird on July 07, 2010, 09:05:43 AMi could go on, but for now, i'll give it a rest.
please do.
i should start off by saying credit card companies also make money (a lot of it) by charging merchants (anywhere from 1-5%) for making it easier for the card holder to make purchases they might other wise not have made. the card company helps both sides by giving the merchant money now and allowing the card holder to defer spending his/her own money to a latter date. with this income, cc companies don't mind if you pay your bill in full each month. it's when you don't pay that they are at risk of losing money, thus the interest rates. the higher the risk, the higher the rate.
Quoteso why do i not get paid the same when the banks use MY money for such a long time (ie:savings, checking accounts, etc.) hell, i shouldn't even have to go to the bank to get my money... the money they are profiting off of, they should have a representative bring it to me rather than having me go get it and be charged a fee on top!
banks are a business. they deal in money. if they gave you the same rate they get, it would be like any other business selling their product for what it cost them. how long could anyone stay in business doing that?
you can thank your government for the low rates we have today (they set the prime rate which the banks use as a bench mark). for anyone looking to buy a big ticket item (house, car, etc.), on credit, this is a good thing (mortgage rates are at an all time low). for us with savings accounts, not so good.
if you resent the way they treat you and your money, you can always keep it under your mattress or in a can in the back yard (my dad did that).
Quoteit's not money, it's credit, which is illegal (read the papers that founded this government). money is a tangible substance, credit is not.
real money is something of substance. something tangible. you want this gallon of milk i have, and i want a silver dollar in return. SUBSTANCE FOR SUBSTANCE.
From Wikipedia
Money is any object that is generally accepted as payment for goods and services and repayment of debts in a given country or socio-economic context.[1][2] The main functions of money are distinguished as: a medium of exchange; a unit of account; a store of value; and, occasionally, a standard of deferred payment.[3][4]
from The Constitution Section 8 - Powers of Congress
"To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures"
if you look at a dollar bill. you'll see
"FEDERAL RESERVE NOTE" and "this note is leagal tender for all debts, public and private".
since the federal reserve is a private bank, this money is nothing more than a bank note. somewhere along the line, congress gave up its right to "coin Money". it is now in the hands of that private bank, "the federal reserve". the scariest part is the fed can not be told what to do or inspected (check the books)! what surprises are hiding in their closet?
Quotenow you're just being silly, they wouldn't be out of business, they would change their model to somehow charge you something for nothing...
don't be confused. collection agencies, banks, and credit card companies are seprate businesses. if everyone paid their bills, collection businesses would go out of business. i do understand what your point is. if any of the above are prevented from making money off you (regulations), they will just find other ways. not too long ago i was in a bank that wanted to charge me for putting money IN. THANK goodness for capitalism and the competition it brings.
Quoteand then you follow it up with this? LOL, many people have tried hard and did not become rich. many people have gone into business for themselves and had situations beyond their control put them pemanently out of business... your reply is disingenuous, there would be just as many jobs with or without rich people...
j c penny went broke 3 times before he got it right, but he didn't give up. my point here is everyone (in the usa) has the same chance to try to become rich. if we don't have the drive or mental ability, that's different. i guess that's why everyone is not rich.
russia thought that being rich was bad too. in the beginning, with everyone that lived (or wasn't in jail) on board, things looked nice. under a "UNITED SOVIET SOCIALIST REPUBLIC" they became a real world power. but a few generations later, we find a starving country that threw off this bad way of life. what was the key? i think it was that human nature thing again. if you can get the same thing for not working as those who are working, why would you work? with an ever growing population of non-working citizens, production (GDP) disappeared. remember the pictures of all the stores with empty shelves? how are they doing today under (more or less) capitalism?
i hope i made my point. people need a reason (get rich) to work, for without production, we'll all just end up hunters and gathers again.
this is all i have time for now. if you want more, name something that bothers you.
tom
Quote from: tbird on July 08, 2010, 09:03:35 AM
i should start off by saying credit card companies also make money (a lot of it) by charging merchants (anywhere from 1-5%) for making it easier for the card holder to make purchases they might other wise not have made. the card company helps both sides by giving the merchant money now and allowing the card holder to defer spending his/her own money to a latter date. with this income, cc companies don't mind if you pay your bill in full each month. it's when you don't pay that they are at risk of losing money, thus the interest rates. the higher the risk, the higher the rate.
i know how the credit companies make money... ::)
Quote from: tbird on July 08, 2010, 09:03:35 AM
banks are a business. they deal in money. if they gave you the same rate they get, it would be like any other business selling their product for what it cost them. how long could anyone stay in business doing that?
banks are a racket. they could make a small profit on admin fees, which they do, imagine that! but they don't stop there with a modest profit do they? nice try though... statements like this only reflect your ignorance.
Quote from: tbird on July 08, 2010, 09:03:35 AM
you can thank your government for the low rates we have today (they set the prime rate which the banks use as a bench mark). for anyone looking to buy a big ticket item (house, car, etc.), on credit, this is a good thing (mortgage rates are at an all time low). for us with savings accounts, not so good.
if you resent the way they treat you and your money, you can always keep it under your mattress or in a can in the back yard (my dad did that).
i can thank my government for fiat money? LMFAO ::) get a clue tom...
i don't need your counsel on what to do with my money... nor do i care what your daddy did.
Quote from: tbird on July 08, 2010, 09:03:35 AM
From Wikipedia
Money is any object that is generally accepted as payment for goods and services and repayment of debts in a given country or socio-economic context.[1][2] The main functions of money are distinguished as: a medium of exchange; a unit of account; a store of value; and, occasionally, a standard of deferred payment.[3][4]
from The Constitution Section 8 - Powers of Congress
"To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures"
if you look at a dollar bill. you'll see
"FEDERAL RESERVE NOTE" and "this note is leagal tender for all debts, public and private".
since the federal reserve is a private bank, this money is nothing more than a bank note. somewhere along the line, congress gave up its right to "coin Money". it is now in the hands of that private bank, "the federal reserve". the scariest part is the fed can not be told what to do or inspected (check the books)! what surprises are hiding in their closet?
LOL quoting the wiki... and shooting yourself in the foot while doing it. :D
thank you for admitting to everyone that it is NOT money but SIMPLY A NOTE. and what is a note? a note is a contract where one party (the maker or issuer) makes an unconditional promise in writing to pay a sum of money to the other. a sum of what? oh MONEY. so how does that work? is a dollar bill 'note money' or a 'money note'? don't answer, it's a rhetorical question.
there is a reason the constitution has an obligation to gold and silver of a certain species and weight. 'somewhere along the line' was in 1933 via F.D.R. around the same time they merged the courts of law and equity... :o see erie railroad co. vs. tompkins [304 U.S. 64, 70]
furthermore your wiki quote is COMPLETELY DISINGENUOUS! let me remind you the discussion is about REAL MONEY... that is what you asked... REMEMBER? you didn't ask what would be considered fiat money, you asked what would you consider real money. don't play silly games, i will call you out every time.
Quote from: tbird on July 08, 2010, 09:03:35 AM
don't be confused. collection agencies, banks, and credit card companies are seprate businesses. if everyone paid their bills, collection businesses would go out of business. i do understand what your point is. if any of the above are prevented from making money off you (regulations), they will just find other ways. not too long ago i was in a bank that wanted to charge me for putting money IN. THANK goodness for capitalism and the competition it brings.
i'm not confused, but you seem to be, or you are trying to confuse others... all of them deal in fiat money. not one of them deal in substance. when you got your house loan or car loan did you get the full sum of the loan in toto? if you didn't then they didn't loan you money, it was credit. capiche?
Quote from: tbird on July 08, 2010, 09:03:35 AM
j c penny went broke 3 times before he got it right, but he didn't give up. my point here is everyone (in the usa) has the same chance to try to become rich. if we don't have the drive or mental ability, that's different. i guess that's why everyone is not rich.
everyone is not rich because not everyone wants to be rich... simple as that. mental ability has little to do with it. in case of point, some people are born rich.
Quote from: tbird on July 08, 2010, 09:03:35 AM
russia thought that being rich was bad too. in the beginning, with everyone that lived (or wasn't in jail) on board, things looked nice. under a "UNITED SOVIET SOCIALIST REPUBLIC" they became a real world power. but a few generations later, we find a starving country that threw off this bad way of life. what was the key? i think it was that human nature thing again. if you can get the same thing for not working as those who are working, why would you work? with an ever growing population of non-working citizens, production (GDP) disappeared. remember the pictures of all the stores with empty shelves? how are they doing today under (more or less) capitalism?
did you really just drag out the old america vs. the ussr thing? ::) yes i remember all the capitalist propaganda... ::)
the ussr collapsed because they tried to match our spending in the arms race... and we almost suffered the same fate.
Quote from: tbird on July 08, 2010, 09:03:35 AM
i hope i made my point. people need a reason (get rich) to work, for without production, we'll all just end up hunters and gathers again.
you should really learn the difference between needs and wants... people don't need a reason to work, the only things people need are food, water and sometimes shelter. furthermore, what is wrong with hunting and gathering?
Quote from: tbird on July 08, 2010, 09:03:35 AM
this is all i have time for now. if you want more, name something that bothers you.
tom
i want nothing from you tom.
Money, Banking and the Federal Reserve:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N--ecIbbTpY
Quote from: FreeEnergy on July 09, 2010, 12:40:06 AM
Money, Banking and the Federal Reserve:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N--ecIbbTpY
Such a very amazing link!
__________________
Watch Ramona And Beezus Online Free (http://moviesonlinefree.biz)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eb1n1X0Oqdw