Quote from: CRANKYpants on June 01, 2008, 01:39:45 PM
WE DON'T NEED TO KNOW WHERE IT IS COMING FROM - BUT WE CAN CONCLUDE WHERE IT IS NOT COMING FROM I.E. THE MOTOR BECAUSE...

THE MOTOR CURRENT WOULD HAVE TO INCREASE BY MORE THAN 0.01 AMPS TO CAUSE ACCELERATION AND THIS DOES NOT OCCUR.

Thane, I want to make it clear that I am not being disloyal by disagreeing with you, I am just being loyal to old Thane who observed a decrease in current and an increase in motor torque.

In demo 1 and 2 you disproved what you are now saying, you found the motor needed an all steel shaft with a single coil, something you re-verified later also with fully non magnetic shafts and rotors not working with a single coil.

My understanding is that you have discounted the result of demo 1&2 because you simply feel the steel shaft by giving an initially higher rpm the HV coils have enough power to do their thing.
But did you ever check to see if you speed up the gaped version to the same speed as the all steel version if it would kick into action?

I hope to get that test done today.

QuoteMy question to you is if I or someone else can show parameters such as the above if you will accept that as evidence that slowing HC coils are not needed.

GREAT - BUT WHEN YOU GO TO MIT OR UVA OR MSU ETC, ETC AND MAKE YOUR VIDEO THAT SOMEONE UPLOADS ON TO YOUTUBE AND SMART PEOPLE LIKE DR. WHATSHISNAME TELL EVERYONE THAT THERE IS NO USEFUL OUTPUT - DON'T COME CRYING TO ME.

Thane

QuoteI hope to get that test done today

GREAT NO NEED TO DEBATE ENDLESSLY THEN.

QuoteBut did you ever check to see if you speed up the gaped version to the same speed as the all steel version if it would kick into action?

MY FEELING NOW - IS THAT THE MOTOR ROTOR FLUX WAS ENHANCING THE PM STRENGTH ON THE GENERATOR ROTOR WITH THE STEEL BAR INSERTION.

YESTERDAY I GOT VERY LITTLE ACCELERATION FROM MY COILS WITH 2 STACKED MAGNETS AND THEN WITH THREE - ALL HELL BROKE LOSE.

IN THE EARLY DAYS IN MY BASEMENT I COULD GET ACCELERATION WITH THE BRASS COUPLER STEEL BAR ETC DURING THE EVENING - COME BACK THE NEXT DAY AND NOT BE ABLE TO REPEAT THE VERY SAME TESTS PERFORMED THE NIGHT BEFORE UNTIL I RAN THE MOTOR FOR A WHILE AT A HIGHER SPEED TO "FLUX UP" THE DRIVE SHAFT A BIT.

CHEERS
The NEW AND IMPROVED Thane

QuoteI am just being loyal to old Thane who observed a decrease in current and an increase in motor torque.

THE OLD THANE IS OBSOLETE AND DEAD - HE HAS BEEN UPGRADED TO A NOW CYNICAL, JADED AND BITTER SHADOW OF HIS FORMER NAIVE SELF.

WHAT THE OLD FART HAS-BEEN THANE OBSERVED WAS AN INCREASE IN "SYSTEM" TORQUE - INCORRECTLY ATTRIBUTED TO THE MOTOR.

N.A.I.T

P.S.
TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION YES I DID TRY AND NO IT DID NOT KICK IN BUT I DID LOOK FOR IT.

ALSO I JUST REMEMBERED - WHEN YOU LOAD THE HV COILS THROUGH A RESISTIVE LOAD YOU REDUCE THE ACCELERATION EFFECT WHICH CAN GIVE THE APPEARANCE OF DECELERATION AS PER A CONVENTIONAL COIL - SO FOR DEMO PURPOSES IT IS GOOD TO KEEP THEM SEPARATE HV vs HC.

Quote from: CRANKYpants on June 01, 2008, 05:34:19 PM
GREAT - BUT WHEN YOU GO TO MIT OR UVA OR MSU ETC, ETC AND MAKE YOUR VIDEO THAT SOMEONE UPLOADS ON TO YOUTUBE AND SMART PEOPLE LIKE DR. WHATSHITSNAME TELL EVERYONE THAT THERE IS NO USEFUL OUTPUT - DON'T COME CRYING TO ME.

Thane

First I'll preface this, you see I don't know what you know and what you don't, I don't know if you understand that 100 turns at 1 amp is the same as 1 turn at 100 amps which is the same as 10,000 turns at .01 amps when it comes to producing a magnetic field. (amps x turns)

Or that in all the coils mentioned above the ratio of self induction with induction of an external field remains at the same ratio and ratio is all that matters. (this means that a coil of ANY inductance will work to generate a useful output normally since the driving voltage raises along with the counter voltage)

I don't know what you know about electrical power, I don't know if you have gaps in your knowledge (I sure do) or if you are going to be insulted by these obvious points.
Do you know that .01 amps at 500v has the same power as 10 amps at .5v? (and that with the wrong load the former will appear to output no power?)

Ok, well here's the thing, forgetting about the acceleration (and position on the core) the only difference between the HV and HC coils is how much resistance is required to make use of their output.

Here we have 240v mains, I have read similar voltages from the HV coils.
The difference is the mains can supply an infinite current almost, however the HV coils can't create a stronger magnetic field inside of their turns than the inducing field and as such it is current limited and therefore the difference between the mains and the HV coil is that the mains will always give you (to the point of destruction) more power with less resistance, but the HV coils will only give more power if you increase the resistance so their limited current can develop a useful voltage across your load.

To pull power from them you must have resistance that allows you to pull close to the short circuit current while maintaining a decent voltage. If you get it right you may get close to the short circuit current and the open circuit voltage simultaneously. so 0.07 amps and 272 volts could be close to 19 watts.

My point is that you will indeed appear to have no power if you have a load that does not generate a decent voltage, but you can increase the resistance with little change in the current which is why Ron found the same current through a 10 or 5 ohm (or 0 ohm) resistor on his HV coil, the 10 ohm resistor has twice the voltage and so he has just doubled the power output. (BTW he found .15A with his close to the rotor HV coils, if they have a 200 ohm resistance then that's 30watts of ohmic heating! that not not 'No power')

You need a load on the HV coils that is at least in the hundreds of ohms. but possibly thousands. (Ron's impedance would have been in the 4k ohms range)

If the HC coils were producing 10v and 1A a 10 ohm load would suit to pull 10w.
If the HV coils were producing 100v and .1A you would need a 1,000 ohm load to pull 10w, with a 10 ohm load you'd have only .1w!

Assuming you actually read I don't know if I am telling you stuff you know, or if this is a revelation to you or if you object to it all.

But I am increasingly of the opinion that showing you the voltage across a carefully selected resistor will not convince you of the power present and if that is so I would need to use a step down transformer.