Jeez dudes, all fine that you're having this disagreement,
but it seems quite simple to me: if the perepeteia concept works,
such a generator should produce more output than input.
Test it, see if it does. If so, then it does. If not, then it doesn't.
Who cares what you think the explanation is? The important thing is
to know if it works or not. You can ponder possible explanations later,
while you're sitting in your nice perepeteia-generator-powered house
under a similarly powered lamp.

And I can't help to point out that TYPING EVERYTHING IN CAPITAL
LETTERS IS VERY ANNOYING!

Quote from: CRANKYpants on June 23, 2008, 07:27:58 AM
SO BRINGING THESE KINDS OF IDEAS AND RESULTS TO THE LIGHT OF DAY IS NOT EASY AS ANYONE CAN CLEARLY SEE
Thane

That's what has struck me - and educated me - more than anything in the months that I've been following.  When your observations went from intriguing to Dr. Marcus Zahn to something he wouldn't touch with a 10 foot pole overnight, I sat up and noticed. Mainstream science gets so many things so wonderfully right, but it doesn't do this stuff well at all.  If this effect can indeed be applied for positive outcomes then it is extremely regrettable that related observations and work may have been marginalized or dismissed outright for more than three decades.

There are some here who have made little secret of their disdain for some of your particular idiosyncrasies, but those characteristics come from the same palette as your unique effectiveness at bringing, sustaining and building attention and support from quarters that matter.  If this technology proves worthy of develoment you will deserve so much credit for this aspect of things, without which you'd still be in your basement and nobody would be talking about any of it.  It's a real and significant accomplishment that is noteworthy independant of the eventual outcome.

Quote from: CRANKYpants on June 24, 2008, 06:25:29 AM
A22 - MAKE A LIST OF ALL THE CHARACTERISTICS OF A HC COIL AND A HV COIL.
THEN NARROW IT DOWN TO WHAT CHANGES AS FREQUENCY CHANGES.
THE YOU HAVE A STARTING POINT IN YOUR ANALYSIS.

HOW DOES AETHER PRODUCTION VARY FROM A HC COIL TO A HV COIL?

First electrically one thing that changes as speed increases is electrical frequency and the induced voltage, although again as for the skin effect you need hugely thick conductors to get it at frequencies from 35hz (6 pole 700rpm) to 150hz (6 pole 3,000rpm) and the thin thin wire you use is good to some very high frequencies.

Aetherically, there are 2 changes.
First as the aetheric rate of change increases so does the aetheric version of voltage (speed/pressure), although the difference is that aetheric induction is at right angles to the inducing flow unlike electrical induction.
Secondly aetheric flow through a conductor (aetheric guide) tends to be faster the thinner the guide is. (really I know thinner is better I just don't know if there is a limit or not, or some tradeoff)

All of these things help create a stronger right angle aether flow into the rotor and through the shaft.
One possibility is that I was able to get the acceleration with HCC because my rotor offers a lower aetheric resistance and hence required less aetheric speed/pressure, if you buy a large spoked cast iron pulley and bush like Luc and I have you may well find that coils of fewer turns are working. (and again I'll remind you that you have already glimpsed such before where a single (non-laminated) HV coil would not work in an isolation test but given a lesser challenge it powers through)

Quote

Proximity effect is the tendency for current to flow in loops or concentrated distributions due to the presence of magnetic fields generated by nearby conductors. In transformers and inductors, proximity effect losses are generally more significant than skin effect losses. In Litz wire windings, proximity effect may be sub-divided into internal proximity effect (the effect of other currents within the bundle) and outer proximity effect ( the effect of the current in other bundles). The reason for twisting or weaving Litz wire, rather than just grouping fine conductors together, is to ensure that the strand currents are equal. Simple twisted bunched conductor wire can accomplish this adequately where proximity effect would be the only significant problem with solid wire. Where skin effect would also be a problem, more complex Litz wire constructions can be used to ensure equal strand currents. Therefore, in a well-designed construction, strand currents are nearly equal.

concentrated distributions

If you think about what is being talked about there I think it's clear.
it is not about series coils but parallel coils or multistrand conductors.
If the induced voltage in one is greater than the other the induced voltages will not be equal and you will create a current loop, it is like putting 2 batteries in parallel when one is better charged, it will waste power putting current into the other battery.

That is why it says to move the wires around inside the package because each must be equally induced over a length (before they come together).
However the HV wire is so thin that at the frequencies used it's a million miles from any skin effect or uneven induction.

Quote from: hoptoad on June 24, 2008, 06:46:21 AM

The HV coil will have a higher phase angle for any given frequency than the HC coil up to a maximum of 90 degrees, so it will react more favourably at lower frequencies than the HC coil.

Why?

Quote
Because your HC coils are very high guage, low impedance coils, you will need a very high frequency for the acceleration effect to kick in.

again why? what is the difference?

Quote
Give the rotor enough revs and magnet pairs to increase frequency, and eventually it will, because the impedance will rise with increased frequency, and with it the impedance/resistance ratio will increase, resulting in increasing phase angle.

Ah, now have you not bothered to listen to a damn thing I have said?
Or do you have an answer I am unaware of?

BTW I would like to momentarily cite the flyback transformer and autoignition coil and neon sign transformer as technologies that wouldn't be able to output power if you were correct.

More turns done mean a greater impedance yes, but the voltage is amplified at the same rate as are the number of turns etc, everything vital stays the same.

Quote
There is a threshold phase angle at which acceleration will manifest.

I think by acceleration here you mean 'reduction of braking effect'.

Quote
The hard thing to predict here is the actual threshold angle for any given inductor.
Because the effect is non linear, it is hard to study (as you have been finding out) and even harder to formulate a basis for mathematical behavioral predictions.

For your current practical and experimental requirements, you seem to have found impedance ranges you are happy with.

A delay is what a current phase angle is. A delay between pressure (induced voltage) and reaction to that pressure (induced current). The higher the impedance the higher the delay.

Yes it's real, and potentially very useful !

Your latest test results with increased magnet pairs bears out this dependency on frequency / impedance, with your rotor exhibiting acceleration at a lower RPM and motor voltage, but an overall higher rotor frequency. It is exactly what I predicted to you would happen if you increased the rotor frequency by increasing magnet pairs.

Cheers   .... KneeDeep

Almost any theory of what is occurring would conclude that more rotor magnets means more effect generally.

Quote from: aether22 on June 24, 2008, 04:57:59 PM
Why? again why? what is the difference?

More turns done mean a greater impedance yes, but the voltage is amplified at the same rate as are the number of turns etc, everything vital stays the same.

Do you understand the relationship between the resistance and the inductive reactance of the coil, and the role each plays in phase angle. ?
The amplitude of the voltage in a coil has no direct relationship to the phase angle between the voltage and current.

http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/Hbase/electric/phase.html