Sorry Ossie and greendoor et al,
I am almost sure I didn't quite get the point there,
so forgive me for posting another dumb question

But if it is impossible to ignite the water outside of the plasma discharge zone,
then how come people have managed to produce bursts of flame by just
spraying very fine water mist into the spark? The pics I see don't show
the flame only in the spark gap zone, they show large bursts of flame that seem
to follow the water mist spray...

And if it only works inside the plasma discharge zone, then it shouldn't be
possible to ignite water vapour outside it even if the vapour is contained in
an engine cylinder, so that should never work then...? Is that what you're saying?

I bet that's not exactly what you're saying, as both s1r9a9m9's posts spanning
2 years almost as well as Ossie's latest post here are clearly aimed at using
the setup to ignite a water mist inside a cylinder and thus drive the engines pistons.
So I must have misunderstood again...

I think they're saying it must originate within the zone, and from there it can cascade outwards untill all the energy is dissipated.  I think of it like pool or snooker balls.  It's not breaking the balls, but the energy will transfer from balls that fall within the plasma balls to any others in the locality that they hit, and disrupt the weak bond between individual H2O molecules (inter rather than intra).  If there's nothing in the plasma path to start with then there's a mis-cue, or mis-fire.

Shiver

Quote from: Shiver on July 07, 2008, 09:25:59 AM
I think they're saying it must originate within the zone, and from there it can cascade outwards untill all the energy is dissipated.  I think of it like pool or snooker balls.  It's not breaking the balls, but the energy will transfer from balls that fall within the plasma balls to any others in the locality that they hit, and disrupt the weak bond between individual H2O molecules (inter rather than intra).  If there's nothing in the plasma path to start with then there's a mis-cue, or mis-fire.

Shiver

Shiver

I agree
In my opinion the  plasma  effect is more than likely OU 

I see  no reason to believe that the  s1r9 engine  burns  the water . 
To me the s1r9 engine  is about  using  an arc  to inject heat into compressed  air
Then   collecting  power  from expansion  . 
The  water just makes the process LOTS more efficient .

gary

@Gotoluc

QuoteWhere are you allcanadian?.. can you please start a Tesla style topic using this circuit?

LOL, You must have read my mind, I was about to post an easier way to acheive the desired effects----Tesla style. I built your original circuit last night and Qiman's, and it works very well but there are issues. Now consider what is happening in this circuit, an inverter raises a 12v batteries potential to 120v(losses) and is rectified to DC(losses) then charges a capacitor.This capacitor is discharged through the primary of an ignition coil ------ but what happens next? Qiman gave part of the answer The moment the potential from the capacitor reaches the primary of the coil a larger potential is induced in the secondary HV coil. All of you see a spark across the gap but that is only the beginning, Qiman said this is all about "potential" and he is correct. The very moment the HV jumps the arc gap a higher potential appears at both the (-)negative terminal of the primary having an inductance or opposition to current flow and the negative side of the capacitor As such an oscillitory series circuit is formed, the HV appearing behind the capacitor forces another impulse through the capacitor and primary thus the secondary raising potential incrementally. This "appears" to be a single arc across the gap only because the frequency of oscillation is extremely high as such the "qualities" of the arc discharge have changed from what we know. The variables we need be concerned with are potential and frequency of oscillation(wave period)---- this is not "alternating" current it is HV impulsive DC, the flow never reverses but does oscillate within itself, each oscillation raising the potential. You could call it unidirectional RF in which the radiative properties have been expanded. The oscillations produce resonant vibrations within the media and the potential difference tears it apart.
If you want to lose both the inverter and the rectifier to reduce resistance losses you need look no further than Tesla Patent 568177 Ozone generator, an economical and efficient means to charge a capacitor to high potential, the Primary/Secondary is your ignition coil.
Best Regards

Hi Everyone,

Can we PLEASE get off of the "water igniting/burning" or "disassociation of water into HHO" or any of that useless banter NOT RELATIVE TO THIS FORUM!  Does it really matter?  The goal here was to develop and improve a circuit to use as little input energy to drive a piston down using WATER instead of FOSSIL FUELS!

I am not an electrical circuit design person by any means and it is not my forte.  I am degreed in Physics and understand what is really happening here, not that it is really important anyway.  That and 50 cents gets you a bad cup of coffee from a vending machine.

If there was a disassociation of water into HHO and burned, then the "system" would be hot, just like burning fossil fuels or burning ANYTHING.  As evidenced by Luc AND Ossie, the spark plug is barely warm.  The reason is because NOTHING is being ignited or burned!

The reaction is just like thunder and lightening.  Ionized water droplets in the atmosphere are then hit by a strong static charge (Lightening).  The air molecules BETWEEN the water droplets are being accelerated at supersonic speeds and bumping into more water droplets, which bumps more air molecules... in a cascading effect.  The thunder we hear and feel is a sonic boom or concussion wave.

This concussion wave can do work by pushing down a piston.  To futher evidence this using Luc and Ossie's experiments, in air alone the plasma arc is notably smaller than when water mist is added.  Luc did get some nice "air only" plasma arcs one day, but then he also said it was raining at the time, which means a lot of humidity or water vapor in the air! 

The HV from the ignition coil instantaneously (or close to it) ionizes the water droplets and when hit with the higher amperage from the rectified AC/inverter part of the circut, is just like Lightening and the air molecules around the water droplet are accelerated at supersonic speeds, hence the loud bang.

Ossie and Luc and anyone else (including me who have done actual experiments) have noticed there are times when the plasma arc action is so great, the reaction quickly "blows out" the plasma "flame" until the next arc.  Again, this is evidence that both the air and water droplets are being pushed rapidly.  AND the spark plug is NOT HOT even after running the tests for 45 minutes or so, as Ossie did.  If you put water on your skin and blow on it, it feels cool because the effect is evaporation!  Are you changing the water into anything other than another form of water?  Are you changing the air you are blowing out?  The obvious answer is NO to both questions!

Bottom line...who cares!  Is this overunity?  No, but again, WHO CARES!  Is the COP > 1 ... WHO CARES!  The idea and FOCUS (let me say this again) FOCUS is to create a circuit that will allow us to REPLACE fossil fuels being burned in any motor/engine with WATER!

Now... can we please get back ON TOPIC, and back to work as a group to accomplish this and stop posting extraneous OFF TOPIC, disruptive and anti-focusing counterproductive points.  There are a million other forums out there to discuss these "other" valuable, but off topic ideas and discussions.

We need to all work together to make this method work in the most energy efficient way to get off of fossil fuels.  The sooner the better, not only for the immediate personal economic reasons for us all, but the far reaching aspects of saving our planet with a ZERO environmental polluting system!  Gasoline by me is at $4.29 per gallon and rising.

Regards,
Geo