Quote from: Loner on July 31, 2008, 01:50:26 AM
Not to butt in, but I have been doing engine work for years, and have never heard of that concept.
(Meaning - low running pressure.)  I understand that normal operating conditions is not WOT and
therefore there is intake vacuum, reducing charge density, thereby lowering the pressure, but at
WOT, the instant pressure levels can be even greater than static compression.  (No gauge will
show that, due to response of the gauge and the human eye, etc.)  I'm sure I don't need to go
into manifold flow design for air at RPM, etc.  This is all common knowledge for designers.

The other problem, That I have had to deal with, is that at the instant of firing, there is a localised
pressure wave around the plug.  THIS is what can blow the spark out, causing a poor ignition
without a misfire.  (Not going into this too deep, water IS different than gas, and I'm no expert in
any way, shape or form, in either case.)  If an RE or Plasma spark is desired for a Long time, in
fire terms, then the explosion could blow out the spark easily, if not enough to do most of the work
in the initial "Bang".  Best example, the rotary engine.  Even with gas, and special plugs, two plugs
are required due to the length of the resulting chamber, and the extinguishing of the first spark from
normal combustion. (You won't find that in the normal specs, but that's why it's there!)

Having said that, I am very unsure of the minimum pressure required at idle, with high vacuum and
a good carb.  You could possibly see less than 20 PSI, if all were perfect in a low compression
setup and small quench height.  (Hopefully, everyone understands basic ICE chamber design)

For this type of setup, I wonder if the original modified volga design. of perhaps the CVCC original
type from Honda would be nice to try.  (Small separate chamber around plug, with separate valve...)
Of course, finding such a thing in a single cyl. engine?  Yeah- right.  Forget I mentioned it...

Finally, just to show how little I REALLY know, if this is at all an RE effect, the conversion process
will be going from the plug radially to the cyl. walls and piston at the speed of light.  (1.5 for RE, but whatever.)
That aspect of operation could only be determined by experiment, but as a recomendation was 30 degrees
retarded  (HHO flame front is FAST)  I have NO idea of what the True effects, inside a Cyl, will be.

Give me a CNC, raw heads, and standard fuel like gas, nitro, alch, etc. and I'm comfy machining to the
desired effect.  This stuff, well, you guys are charting such new territory that I'm just pleased to read, learn,
and offer any little experience I have. 

I duno, i agree on what you are saying but i have been doing repair for years also, and i do specifically remember when being trained at GM the whole concept of  a lower running compression. I will do some digging in my old books and see if i can find the actual data.



thanks for posting all the help has been great so far

Ok

Gonna do a little paste, cause well i dont feel like typing this much and, they did a nice job

but its called dynamic compression test

here u go

it from iatn, which is a tech repair info swapping dealy mabob, but basically they state about half normal compression is running,

its nice to know this old brain still remebers some stuff

RUNNING COMPRESSION TEST

This is a summary of the responses to a question about a "Dynamic Compression Test" sent out via the i-ATN e-mail list and posted on Compuserve's "For Techs Only" forum. It seemed to ring a bell with the most techs as a "running compression test," so I will use that name here. Call it what you will, this test is an accurate if slightly esoteric and time-consuming test of cylinder breathing. It is in fact recommended by Detroit Diesel instead of a traditional static compression test, it is included as part of Delmar's ATTP program, and several instructors use it as part of their state emission training programs.

HOW TO PERFORM A RUNNING COMPRESSION TEST

1. Start with a normal ("static") compression test. To eliminate rings, valves, holes in pistons, that sort of things. A normal cylinder balance test is also helpful (so you know which, if any, cylinder is presenting a problem). Engine should be warm.

2. Put all spark plugs but one back in. Ground that plug wire to prevent module damage. Disconnect that injector on a port fuel system.

3. Put your compression tester into the empty hole. The test can be done without a Shrader valve, but most people recommended leaving the valve in the gauge and "burping" the gauge every 5-6 "puffs".

4. Start the engine and take a reading. Write it down

5. Now goose the throttle for a "snap acceleration" reading. Reading should rise. Write it down NOTE: Don't use the gas pedal for this snap acceleration. The idea is to manually open then close throttle as fast as possible while without speeding up the engine. This forces the engine to take a "gulp" of air.

6. Now write down your readings for at least the bad cylinder (if there is a single bad cylinder) and maybe 2-3 good ones. Make a chart like this: CYL STATIC COMPR IDLE -RUNNING COMPR - SNAP Cyl 1 150 75 125 Cyl 2 175 80 130 Cyl 3 160 75 120 Cyl 4 160 80 125

7. ANALYSIS: Running compression at idle should be 50-75 psi (about half cranking compression). Snap throttle compression should be about 80% of cranking compression.

EXAMPLE 1 - RESTRICTED INTAKE CYL STATIC COMPR IDLE -RUNNING COMPR - SNAP Cyl 1 150 75 80 If Snap reading is low (much less than 80% cranking compression), look for restricted intake air- severely carboned intake valve, worn lobe on cam, rocker problem, "shutters" mispositioned in the runners. (Toyota, Vortec etc. with variable runner length) Comparing measurements between cylinders is important.

EXAMPLE 2 - RESTRICTED EXHAUST CYL STATIC COMPR IDLE -RUNNING COMPR - SNAP Cyl 1 150 75 180 If snap measurements are significantly higher than 80% of cranking measurements, look for restricted exhaust on that cylinder-such as worn exhaust cam lobe, or collapsed lifter. Or, if they are all high, look for a clogged cat converter.

WHAT IS GOING ON?

When you do a normal compression test, you are checking cylinder sealing, not cylinder breathing. When you check engine vacuum at the manifold, you are looking at the breathing of the entire engine, by checking vacuum at a common (plenum) source. You aren't testing a specific cylinder. This test looks at the breathing of an individual cylinder.

Say the engine is running at 18 inches vacuum. Atmospheric pressure is about 30 inches, so the difference (30 inches - 18 inches = 12 inches) is what the engine is sucking in. 12 inches mercury is equivalent to about 6 psi absolute air pressure. Compressed at an 8 to 1 ratio, you should get 6 x 8 = 48 psi pressure if all the air makes it into the cylinder and then gets pushed out. So your idle reading on running compression is about 50 psi.

When you snap the throttle, the manifold vacuum drops, so the absolute air pressure going into the cylinder increases.

In fact, you can do running compression tests at various constant manifold vacuum readings (by brake-torqueing the engine momentarily), and the running compression should roughly correspond to the manifold vacuum. For example, at 10 inches vacuum, engine should be breathing in about 10 psi air pressure, so you should see a running compression reading of about 80 psi (at 8 to 1 compression ratio).

If one cylinder reads low running compression compared to the rest it means that the air didn't make it in. If one cylinder reads high, the air didn't make it out (and the next pulse of air raised the pressure).

If you look at the picture than the main idea would be this:

1- The capacitor is fully charged, the transistor between +terminal dc source, and +terminal of capacitor is not conducting.
2- The ignition coil fires and the capacitor is discharging threw the spark plug.
3- The negative side of the circuit becomes more positive along with the base of the transistor than the emitter of the transistor.
4- Therefore the transistor opens up for a moment and charges the capacitor, than close down.
5- Capacitor is charged and ready to fire again.

Again it's just theory!
But someone with more skills of electronics probably can develop at.
Of course first thing is to get those engines running with the original circuit!:)

Hoops!
Somehow i managed to leave out the front part of my previous post...

It was like that:

I waiting for my new diodes to arrive.
Capacitor 70 told me earlier that it is some ways to remove the 600 watts bulb but it had no good results.
So i come up with an idea but I don't know if it would work.....

Quote from: tiltfulll on July 31, 2008, 01:02:25 PM
Capacitor 70 told me earlier that it is some ways to remove the 600 watts bulb but it had no good results.
So i come up with an idea but I don't know if it would work.....

In my mind, I want to circulate energy, Once capacitor is charged no need to charge it again  like Tesla  switch
It is possible to get multiple sparks once capacitor is charged. but I am working on how to circulate properly  Using coil circuit and diodes combination.

Take two glasses of water and one empty, to understand concept.


UNDERSTAND CONCEPT NOT DESIGN
DESIGNING IS PAYING ATTENTION TO DETAILS