QuoteIrrelevant? Ok. If your motor is drawing 10-15 watts to output .27, and then requires no ADDITIONAL power to output 8.2 watts while still requiring 10-15 watts to run, then maybe it's just me, but this doesn't seem all that amazing. If you can explain more why it's irrelevant, I'd like to hear it.

IT'S JUST YOU...
AND IT'S STILL IRRELEVANT.

If your motor is drawing 10-15 watts to output .27 watts AND BARELY TURNING @ 800 RPM, and then requires no ADDITIONAL EXTERNAL ELECTRICAL power to output 8.2 watts (AND HAS SOME HOW ACCELERATED UP TO MORE THAN 3000 RPM BUT ALL THE PARAMETERS ARE STILL THE SAME EXCEPT THAT THE MOTOR IS GETTING COLDER AND DRAWING LESS ENERGY) while still requiring LESS THAN 10-15 watts to run, then maybe it's just me, but this doesn't seem all that amazing - IT'S A FREAKIN MIRACLE. If you can explain more why it's irrelevant, I'd like to hear it - I MEAN THIS IS A TOTAL VIOLATION OF THE WORK ENERGY PRINCIPLE. HOW CAN A FIXED MASS INCREASE FROM ONE POINT OF STORED ROTATIONAL INERTIA TO A HIGHER ONE WITH A ZERO INCREASE IN INPUT ENERGY WHILE AT THE SAME TIME DOING INCREASING AMOUNTS OF WORK ON A LOAD? DOES IT WALK ON WATER AS WELL - NOW THAT WOULD BE AMAZING!

T

QuoteNow, If i consider the posts of Charlie V and Efoda (and lot of people on this thread) and the question about input versus output, I have to understand this :

If i have in my garden a windturbine of a given propeller diameter (let's say 5 meters diameter) coupled to a  good  "normal s" generator And  i assume that, at  a steady  windspeed  of 30 kmh this "normal" generator can easily power my house.

Now, i replace this  "normal" generator by a brand new Thane's generator (of course capable to spin the rotor at the right speed to animate the HV coils properly).

Can I expect that with the same propeller (5 meters diameter) and same wind speed ( steady 30 kmh) , this new Thane's generator can power not only my house but also all my village (about 30 more houses) ? and perhaps more ??

thanks
Laurent

THE SIMPLE ANSWER IS YES.

TO ANSWER YOUR SINCERE QUESTION ABOUT INPUT VS OUTPUT.
THE INPUT TO THE GENERATOR HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE MOTOR POWER CONSUMPTION.

THE INPUT TO THE GENERATOR IS THE POWER IN THE DRIVE SHAFT WHICH IS TORQUE TIMES SPEED - PB'S FAT GRANDMOTHER IN TIGHTS SMOKING CAMELS AND EATING POUTINE ON A TREADMILL, COULD REPLACE THE MOTOR AS THE PRIME MOVER BUT SHE AIN'T GONNA BE VERY EFFICIENT.

CHEERS
T

The way I see it,
The reason why your system is at idle is running on say 700rpm at say 50watt is because of the eddy drag this core is putting up. If you would not change any input to that idle state and remove the core, it will boost in rpm. Since the eddy drag (and such) is now gone.

Now I might be mistaking but you are using a 1 phase induction motor right? Run from the variac at a lower than hz sync speed. Now I have used these as well and I found the their rpm vs power in not to be linear when driven out of sync. That means that when the motor gets more into the range of its intended operating rpm the thing seems to "jump" faster and faster into it non-slip rpm range. In other words at some point a little more input to the system (or a little less drag) causes a increasing rpm increase the more it gets to its own 'designed for rpm' range. Anyway for that reason I went to 'universal motors' http://www.globe-usa.com/images/mtrassytom2.gif like washing machine motors http://www.homespare.com/Pictures/thumb/50185a.jpg which can respond more 'true' to volt rpm control. Since induction motors get their rpm from the applied hz.

Since your watt-in versus watt-out is irrelevant, what would really interest me is if your system could do this:
- Setup you motor and it's magnet wheel alone without a core near the thing.
- Choose an input watt level that seems right to you, say 50watt, in for 1000rpm. So you know that the motor with magnet wheel alone does 1000rpm at 50watt.
- Now place the generator core(s) near the wheel like you normal would do/have.
- In the mean time do not change the input to the motor.
- Now engage the coils/load and stuff at the best level possible.
- The system will accelerate like you showed many times.
- Now tell me has it passed the initial stating 1000 rpm?

To summarize you can only speak of 'true acceleration" is the system with the cores and all rigged on it, under load revs up past the rpm the motor at the same input level would alone.
Or els it is just "load lessening" - well ok, even if you do not get any 'load lessening' or acceleration, but be able to output more watts then in, than also it would be a win-situation.

Believe it or not but this all is on "suggestion" base and not "bomb Canada" base, since I have a good friend there lol.

Regards,
Steven

yes   understood

very easy

i simply have to find a lot of PB's grandmas ( the number will replace the efficiency) give them a threadmill coupled to a Thane's gen and Bingo

Europe will not only be powered but all european grandmas will be more fit and happy and as we all know "if grandma is happy is everybody happy"

Thane you are the Master

Thanks for the great laugh of this evening

Laurent

QuoteThe way I see it,
The reason why your system is at idle is running on say 700rpm at say 50watt is because of the eddy drag this core is putting up. If you would not change any input to that idle state and remove the core, it will boost in rpm. Since the eddy drag (and such) is now gone.

YES BUT YOU ONLY HAVE ONE EYE AND CAN'T SEE OUTTA THE OTHER.  
WITH ONE CORE YES - BUT WITH A BALANCED FULL ARRANGEMENT OF COILS - COGGING TORQUE DROPS TO NEAR ZERO - CORE HYSTERISIS IS A FACT OF LIFE BUT IS STILL MINIMAL.

IF YOU REMOVED THE TRANSMISSION FROM YOUR CAR THE MOTOR WOULD RUN FASTER AS WELL - IT WOULD BE STUPID NONE THE LESS.

QuoteNow I might be mistaking but you are using a 1 phase induction motor right?

YOU ARE MISTAKEN. WE GET SIMILAR RESULTS WITH A 1/4 HP DC MOTOR.
AND SIMILAR RESULTS AT FULL SPEED (3500 RPM)

QuoteSince your watt-in versus watt-out is irrelevant, what would really interest me is if your system could do this:
- Setup you motor and it's magnet wheel alone without a core near the thing.

LIKE A CAR WITH NO ENGINE?

Quote- Choose an input watt level that seems right to you, say 50watt, in for 1000rpm. So you know that the motor with magnet wheel alone does 1000rpm at 50watt.

RUN THE CAR MOTOR IN MY BACK YARD...

Quote- Now place the generator core(s) near the wheel like you normal would do/have.
- In the mean time do not change the input to the motor.
- Now engage the coils/load and stuff at the best level possible.
- The system will accelerate like you showed many times.
- Now tell me has it passed the initial stating 1000 rpm?

NO ONE CARES...
THE QUESTION IS WHAT IS THE GENERATOR'S (GENERATOR = COIL + CORE) REACTION TO LOADING...

NOT

WHAT'S THE MOTOR'S REACTION TO GENERATORING...

QuoteTo summarize you can only speak of 'true acceleration" is the system with the cores and all rigged on it, under load revs up past the rpm the motor at the same input level would alone. Or els it is just "load lessening" - well ok, even if you do not get any 'load lessening' or acceleration, but be able to output more watts then in, than also it would be a win-situation.

AGIAN NO ONE CARES - AN ELECTRIC AUTOMOBILE ROLLING DOWN THE HIGHWAY AT 100 KM/HR WILL DECELERATE IF YOU TRY TO CHARGE THE BATTERIES. THE IDEA IS TO MAKE IT NOT DECELERATE. REMOVING THE GENERATOR WOULD CERTAINLY MAKE IT NOT DECELERATE BUT IT WOULDN'T BE VERY SMART.

QuoteBelieve it or not but this all is on "suggestion" base and not "bomb Canada" base, since I have a good friend there lol.
Regards,
Steven

DON'T BOMB CANADA JUST BOMB BC!
AND ALL THE WORLD BANKS!

T