Quote from: yaz on December 01, 2008, 11:43:23 AM

All humans are sinners. We all deserve to be in hell. God loves us so much that he gave us an escape  plan from hell, and that is to accept Jesus Christ as your personal Lord and Saviour right up to your last breath, but after that it'll be too late.

Hell exists, and it is necessary. God is making every possible effort to keep us away from there, in much the same way as you might try to warn motorists that a bridge is out ahead of them. Never mind about the reason, the bridge is just out...

God can simply fix the bridge in your analogy.  God can do away with hell. Hell is not necessary at all - there are many other alternatives.  One is absolute nothingness instead of Hell.  Why does it need to be endless torture?  Isn't being denied Heaven enough punishment?  Why the obsession with torture?  Wouldn't nothingness be much more merciful?  Why can't god find mercy in his soul?

And why are all humans sinners?  Why would god, the perfect, the all-knowing, the all-powerful, create something that is sinful from day 0?  And then go on to punish that thing that he created, for the flaw that was created with that being?

And does original sin even seem fair to you?  So our ancestors betrayed God in some way, so what?  Why does a brand new baby, just born, which has done nothing wrong, need to be a sinner, just because an ancestor 6000 years ago did something wrong?  Doesn't this offend your basic sense of justice?  Why would a god, loving, all-knowing, all-powerful, condemn a baby to be a sinner. 

And god-forbid that baby dies before it gets baptized, it is going straight to hell to be tortured forever.

Now tell me, is that the act of a loving God, to torture a 5-month old Jewish baby for all eternity?  Please, if you can resolve this issue for me, I would be much grateful.

Quote from: utilitarian on December 01, 2008, 11:27:50 AM
Back and forth comments are what is otherwise known as a discussion.  I take it you cannot resolve the paradox I posed.  By the way, i did not insult the idea of God.

Between us our "discussion" is pointless. It doesn't matter what I write; you will need to resolve your issues by your own seeking, not by my grandeur style or knowledge or lack of ability to cleverly work out all your issues with Christianity. I see no paradox with how God has designed the universe, nor how he deals with the people on this earth. If He chooses to come as a meek human to preach His word, or if He chooses to punish those who refuse to believe in Him then that is His own decision. The fact that it makes little sense to you is irrelevent. When God has complete dominion over the universe He can arbitrarily choose to act as He wishes in all events.

The fact that you don't like it doesn't matter. All you want is the last word to "prove" that the Christian religion is false. What you say will not change anyone's mind who has Faith. Just as what I say will not change yours.

So why are you wasting my time? I assume just so you can have the last word.

Quote from: ResinRat2 on December 01, 2008, 12:45:17 PM
Between us our "discussion" is pointless. It doesn't matter what I write; you will need to resolve your issues by your own seeking, not by my grandeur style or knowledge or lack of ability to cleverly work out all your issues with Christianity. I see no paradox with how God has designed the universe, nor how he deals with the people on this earth. If He chooses to come as a meek human to preach His word, or if He chooses to punish those who refuse to believe in Him then that is His own decision. The fact that it makes little sense to you is irrelevent. When God has complete dominion over the universe He can arbitrarily choose to act as He wishes in all events.

The fact that you don't like it doesn't matter. All you want is the last word to "prove" that the Christian religion is false. What you say will not change anyone's mind who has Faith. Just as what I say will not change yours.

So why are you wasting my time? I assume just so you can have the last word.

In honesty, I am curious how Christians resolve the Hell paradox to themselves.  Apparently, it is with "Well, it is God's universe, and he does as he pleases."  Well, that is not a rosy picture, and really it does not resolve the paradox, just ignores it.

My feeling is that being a Christian should at least give one some comfort in God, but to me, the existence of Hell is evidence of a capricious  God, like a parent who mercilessly whips a child who refuses to tell the parent how much the child loves the parent.  So where is the comfort in that.  How do people live with that kind of religion?  I guess it's just taking what they teach you in Bible study and forcing yourself to swallow it.

And why the obsession with being worshipped by those you have created?  Why does God need to be worshipped, to the point where he threatens his creations with infinite torment if they do not comply?

If everything boils down to, "well, I don't know what God is doing exactly, and I cannot explain it," that's my point.  It makes no sense, and the only way to believe it is to have faith that the paradox will be resolved for you.  To me, that is no way to live.

Quote:
"One of the most often-used weapons in the skeptic’s arsenal is to seize statements from religious people that make God look like a cruel despot waiting to cast any and everyone into a torturous lake of eternal fire. However, this frequently lands the skeptic in a less-than-defensible position when the actual text of the Bible is consulted. Consider the following paragraph from Ronald Defenbaugh, a self-avowed atheist:..."

Also "Although many skeptics have tried to portray God as an evil tyrant Who condemns innocent children to eternal destruction, their arguments are without merit or any semblance of biblical credence. In the words of Jesus Christ, “Let the little children come to me.”

See  http://www.apologeticspress.org/articles/2255

Quote from: utilitarian on December 01, 2008, 09:25:15 AMWhy would a loving and all-powerful god create a hell, or allow a hell to exist, where his beloved creations are allowed to endure endless and infinite torture?

Because he/she/it gives them the freedom to experience whatever they desire, even allowing them to create a law that there should be a hell if they desire so, and view he/she/it in whatever way they desire to?