Quote from: i_ron on May 21, 2009, 10:19:44 PM
"An object which possesses mechanical energy is able to do work".

but this work is very difficult to use !!!

Gentlman,

Please, I just walked away from a similar debate at Bessler.com...

The term 'work' is clearly defined as moving or displacing a mass, It does not state whether it be confined or not. Time is not accountable in doing work.

This is like telling me that if I lift up my filing cabinet and carry it to the other side of my confined office space that I did not do any 'work'

IMO you must draw a line between working and work accomplished. A hovering helicopter not moving is not doing any work yet the engine and blades are moving air which is a mass and work is being done. Yet after the helicopter does move on and the air returns to its ambient state then with Hans view no work was done.

A pendulum swinging is mass in motion and is a prime example of work being done as outside forces are required to osculate the pendulum, hence a mechanical source of work is accomplished.  Work is related to the distance a force moves an object and not the time it takes to move the object. Nor is their any definition stating that the mass must remain in a displaced area to consider that work was done.

The weight going up and down at the end of a balance beam is a mass in motion, it is being 'displaced' and requires a force to drive it. This is called 'work', the beam is not balanced when in motion just as the pendulum is said to be balanced when static. A pendulum requires three forces to operate, gravity  kinetic and mechanical.

A Force does no work unless the system is free to move "along the direction" of the Force applied. When a Force and the object's displacement are perpendicular, the work done by the force is zero. A pendulum bob loses its force at point of acclimation.

Pendulums left swinging do 'work', they just do not accomplish any work over a period of time which is not part of the equation. Pendulums have been driving escapements in clocks for over 300 years, so there should be no question as whether they perform work.

Ralph

Quote from: rlortie on May 22, 2009, 01:12:00 AM

This is like telling me that if I lift up my filing cabinet and carry it to the other side of my confined office space that I did not do any 'work'

YES you are doing work ...
but is it useful ?

Quote from: i_ron on May 20, 2009, 10:59:13 AM
...
This is a work in progress that I have shared with you and I am surprised that no one has pointed out this ... the inefficiency of the solenoid drive... less than 30%.  So the conclusion should be, wow, even with less than a 30% input drive the machine is still over unity!
...

There is neither theoretical evidence nor experimental evidence for OU.
The only evidence for OU is a looped device with a self maintaining movement. We don't have one.

Quote from: exnihiloest on May 22, 2009, 03:29:45 AM
There is neither theoretical evidence nor experimental evidence for OU.
The only evidence for OU is a looped device with a self maintaining movement. We don't have one.

I don't agree, of course a looping free energy machine would be non-disputable, but a machine giving out the double or more energy than you put in is free energy. Over unity does not exist, so you can just forget about searching for it.