@Hans

Well he says its in hammer mode, so I guess its hammering the wood we see in the picture, and in that case he is doing REAL work. There is no simple reflection of energy that will happen here when gravity also continues to pull down the hammer, it will loose most of its energy before the next pull of the pendulum forces it up again.

Btw Hans I've haven't heard you reply about the acoustics yet, does that mean that I won    Just kidding!

Quote from: Nabo00o on May 24, 2009, 09:44:12 AM

Well he says its in hammer mode, so I guess its hammering the wood we see in the picture,

If you read the report I do state that I did not let the hammer strike the anvil. The simple reason being that a 'binocular' load cell is two parallel arms similar to a tuning fork. In letting it strike puts the load cell into a resonance that destroys the readability of the reading. But I did have it in hammer mode
before and after that reading. The wood is merely a guide to stop the hammer from swinging sideways. The center bolt goes all the way through and strikes the metal plate below.

See the graph below and you can see the difficulty of extracting any meaning in strike mode. Nevertheless, the hammer is doing work whether it hits something or not, it is the displacement of mass over distance.

Ron

PS: one of those days... I had inadvertently triggered the pendulum at the wrong moment and overloaded the the red load cell thus it is reading plus 2.5 volts or so... the saved graph didn't print all the way to the bottom ... and it was the only one I had saved...plus the realization this wasn't going to work unless I went to low pass filtering on the sensor amps...

Quote from: hansvonlieven on May 23, 2009, 11:23:25 PM

Besides, it is not true that I did not read Ron's report.

Hans von Lieven

Oh, so you read the report, then made up a lie…

“My guess is it was done with a spring scale, in which case most of the energy would have been fed back into the system.”

Do you not think that this will lower your credibility to zero?

Ron

Quote from: fritz on May 24, 2009, 09:38:08 AM
snip
Because the thing is charged up with kinetic energy - the peak power released can be a multiple of the input power or even infinite until the kinetic energy stored is consumed.

so what ?

fritz,

Because this leads to an understanding of the forces, "where they were", "when they first knew" etc, and how best to lead them out... to at some point do useful work. Put your thinking cap on and tell us how best to achieve this.

Ron

I would like to offer an explanation for my paper. In looking at Veljko's hammer models and in particular Raymond Head's video we see the hand providing an input while the output lifts a weight. The question in my mind was what was the relationship between these two forces? 

Thus my experimint was setup to compare these two working forces and give some idea of the relationship (ratio). I believe this is clearly stated in my paper. It is not a demonstration of a working practical machine as some have erroneously concluded. It is a research machine, pure and simple.

The answer?  "4.6:1",

for every "1 unit" from the hand, the machine provides "4.6 units" out. (on the Mk 5.3 specifically)

Quote from: i_ron on May 24, 2009, 11:33:14 AM
Oh, so you read the report, then made up a lie…

“My guess is it was done with a spring scale, in which case most of the energy would have been fed back into the system.”

Do you not think that this will lower your credibility to zero?

Ron

No, I didn't lie. Having not dismantled your probes I can only guess how they are constructed. Logic dictates that when the probe measures the forces it has to generate some sort of opposing force in reaction to make measurement possible. The most likely scenario is that some spring mechanism inside re-sets the probe when the forces fluctuate. This spring, like it or not, stores energy that is fed back into the system as the spring relaxes.

This is what I have been talking about all along.

Hans von Lieven