jeanna,

good info on silk. it certainly makes sense that coils will be closer together thus more windings possible over a linear distance. i also like it because it also decreases the distance between the copper-iron voltaic couple.

glad you like the induction coil book. i am still reading it. if anything, maybe we can use the secondary coil construction technique listed in the book on a Stubblefield to improve this aspect of it.

Has anyone tried a bundled iron wire main core in a Stubblefield? I see this technique all over including in the Bedini motor. I reread the NS patent yet again and remain convinced we need to have the primary coil produce the best magnetic field possible.

Has anyone also tried using the sheet style condenser with a Stubblefield? It looks interesting to me. if anything maybe we can further improve action to the secondary. not sure how good it will work with low voltage Stubby though... charge is charge however so i wonder.

jeanna, what are your thoughts on directionality? I am still trying to come to grips with this one because I remain under the impression that magnetic fields are stronger when flow through a coil body is uni-directional. I am half tempted to make a Stubblefield that has 5 layers connected in parallel. Volts should always be say .75 - 1 in this electrochemistry no matter what we do with the coils. Parallel them and the fact there is bifilar effect in each layer should make a better magnetic field.

,MW

Quote from: MW383 on October 13, 2009, 07:00:28 PM


jeanna, what are your thoughts on directionality? I am still trying to come to grips with this one because I remain under the impression that magnetic fields are stronger when flow through a coil body is uni-directional. I am half tempted to make a Stubblefield that has 5 layers connected in parallel. Volts should always be say .75 - 1 in this electrochemistry no matter what we do with the coils. Parallel them and the fact there is bifilar effect in each layer should make a better magnetic field.

,MW

I'm gonna try the bundle soon.
I think it is a great idea. Collins is very clear about it's being much much better.

Quotemagnetic fields are stronger when flow through a coil body is uni-directional.

Well, it is, but the(magnetic) flow must be changing in value to have any magnetic to electric effect.
As soon as the reactance is overcome the induction effect is lost and it is time to switch directions.

So,  you need a fluctuating magnetic field to produce any electricity from an inductor coil = beyond a straight battery current..
The faster (sharper the changes) the better. The EER is showing from 22.7KHz on the whole wave, to 2.4MHz in the ripples, which is pretty fast.
But, you also need to match the field strength and timing with its size and number of turns so that the coil and its magnetic growth are just at the peak when you change direction.

We did a lot of this in what we called tuning the joule thief.
It was that we changed the resistor so that the changes were optimal.
When we got it right... wow pow!

Some differences with the EER are
1- the changing mag field is free and,
2- we are starting with the magnetic field and not making it.
I believe we need to find the right...?? ??
We also need a way to bring the amounts up.
It is possible that the chemical electricity part is a very smart way to increase the peaks of the magnetic field.


Do your 5 layer parallel. I am not too sure what I would predict, but maybe when you get something it will start some new ideas.

I even looked at wire yesterday.

I think I will make one more of these when I get a big spool of magwire.
I will sand off about 20 feet of varnish and use the first part of the wire covered with silk next to some annealed wire. When the varnished part starts I just won't need to cover it and it should be very close. I will use some welding rods for the core too.
I will cut most of them to the size of the spool but leave one long as a stake that can get stuck into the ground.

(Just thinking about making a bedini motor has given me these ideas.)

jeanna
( sorry for so many words!)

Quote from: jeanna on October 13, 2009, 07:49:11 PM
I'm gonna try the bundle soon. I think it is a great idea. Collins is very clear about it's being much much better.

Me too! My plans moving forward are to optimize magnetic field generation produced by Stubblefield's integral voltaic couple. There are design balances here that we need to establish. About the only way to do this is to start building variations and learn from them. Since Stubblefield states that aspects of the primary coil construction may be changed to suit, this optimization process should be relatively straight forward. So assuming a bundled iron core, some of the variables will be total formed diameter, diameter of each internal rod, #rods, and length. I am going to build my first core as follows (based on some info I have collected from successful builds by Wm. B. Eddy)

"composed of a bundle of No. 22 iron wire well annealed"

I am unsure about core diameter and length becuase Eddy has a design that seems optimized to the 110VDC he was applying to it. I may revert back to a scaled Stubblefield system based on patent and actual photographs of his units.

Applied to this core will be Stubblefield's bifilar voltaic couple windings of Fe and Cu. I am still trying to determine what AWG size I will use for these...
I might just stay with #16 because I have a supply of it already. I plan on winding each layer as individual entities for starters (each having their own start and end wires). This allows me to experiment with various wiring configurations of the primary coil (like parallel, series, or perhaps a combination) As far as number of layers, this will be achieved through successive addition of layers as to maximize flux through the core (somewhat dependant on what I can produce from voltaic aspects). The etch-a-sketch method will be used to actually look at the magnetic fields produced.

Goal#1 create best primary coil possible based on Stubblefield's voltaic couple and standard/optimized induction coil designs. Once perfected, add a mechanical set of points to the top and get self oscillating via movable contact being repulsed from top of iron core - combined with weak spring that forces contact back down.

Goal#2 create a secondary coil system optimized to the primary. (at least geometrically through use of slice method). Wiring games can also be played here such as series-parallel-combination of each.

Goal#3 determine if there are advantages with condensers.

Quote from: jeanna on October 13, 2009, 07:49:11 PM
But, you also need to match the field strength and timing with its size and number of turns so that the coil and its magnetic growth are just at the peak when you change direction.

Absolutely. I am under the assumption that we collapse the field just as it reaches its maximum flux. Cycling too fast would be wasteful on the primary end, cycling too slow would be wasteful on the secondary end.

Quote from: jeanna on October 13, 2009, 07:49:11 PM
When we got it right... wow pow!

I expect the exact same result with an optimized Stubblefield.

Quote from: jeanna on October 13, 2009, 07:49:11 PM
(Just thinking about making a bedini motor has given me these ideas.)

This is usually what happens to me; as in looking at other similar things and then applying them to the original.

Quote from: jeanna on October 13, 2009, 07:49:11 PM
( sorry for so many words!)

No aplogies necessary. The more we share ideas and hammer on this thing, the better it will get. I think we have discussed any number of things here in the past several days that should keep us in the experimentation business for quite a while!

On a side note...

I was reading the urban legend materials associated with this battery and certain things are mentioned. batteries located above quartz deposits a potential good thing. batteries having mild radiocative ores placed in their vicinities possibly used. and basically the voodoo subject of finding the right place to put one of these things (hot spots).

So using Google Maps and a magnetic field anomoly plugin I started poking around the US. I looked at my location in Wisconsin and it is a very dark blue on the scale ( a negative anomoly; whatever this means...). I looked at Murray Kentucky and it too was a darker blue. Then I looked at places with quartz mines (both in Arkansas and Colorado) both of these were very dark purple on the scale (a positive anomoly). Mildly radioactive ores are also located in Arkansas and these have stong positive anomolies. Just for kicks I put in Detroit, Michigan because of its immense underground salt deposits. This came up dark blue (extremely negative anomaly). Does it mean anything? I have no idea. I'm not real clear on what the magnetic survey people define as anomoly or what negative and positive actually mean. I'll find out though.

On a more serious note, I have started construction on a full sized battery. Am constructing iron core at the moment using bundled rod approach. Core diameter to be 2", core length to be 24". I have also heard back from a wire manufacturer I have been talking with in regards to cotton insulated variety. He is sending me samples of cotton directly over wire (no additional plastic layer like some cloth wires have). His material is water permeable so no problem here. There may be another issue though because he uses an adhesive in his manufacturing process. This adhesive is water soluble. I have no idea what it is composed of but am certain we do not want it in our system. Perhaps some runs through a dish washer will get rid of the stuff? I will keep everyone posted on what happens here. Who knows, maybe this will work. I am more than ready to stop this layered cloth silliness.

So I have been reading and experimenting in the past few days.

As far as experimenting, I have found best magnetic fields when multiple coil layers are all wired in parallel. This is probably due in most part to the resistance being less but I will let more qualified electrical wizards comment on this. Wiring in series (unidirectional) was less field strength, wiring in series (bidirectional) was last place in field strength.

I still believe that a strong magnetic coil is critical. Thus when I finish the large coil I am building, it will be fully tested in it's primary windings and have verified strong magnetic field before secondary is even considered. I am waiting for supposed cloth insulated wire samples so I am holding off construction just temporarily although a core is nearly complete at this time.

More reading thus improved understanding (I typically read and research heavily before application efforts)......

So like an induction coil that follows the 'right hand rule', the earth operates in exact same fashion. Magnetic portion horizontal / Electrical portion at a right angle to this thus vertical. Obviously we are all in the business of the attempted harvesting of this vertically inclined electricity.

We can always build a simple aluminum foil capacitor, place below ground, and then collect natural charges already eminating to the surface. This alone wouldn't be a lot of energy usable for large things but it does demonstrate that the earth operates inductively all by itself and per all established rules.

Stubblefield increased local magnetism through electromagnetic coil, earth energy responded accordingly and delivered up energy in some proportion to the increased magnetic field. And this is the game in a nutshell.

Further readings have taught me many things I did not know, of which I will be appying to future experiments and hopefully a finalized design construction. I am currently looking at a much different construction that could potentially solve a lot of little issues because of its static nature and improved locational aspects of components. So I have a double approach at moment; a Stubblefield in purist fashion, and this other thing which is, in principle, the same thing just a little different...