Quote from: ATT on December 05, 2009, 11:33:14 AM
<snip>
Undoubtedly.
Now, what do you propose towards a solution?
Tony

Hi Tony,

Since "you" is a somewhat generic method of address, I'll interpret it as a question of open debate.

I think that gov't officials should be held to the same standard as any other employee.
In short, they are YOUR employees! Start holding them accountable as such.

They should have independent review of their progress towards achieving the goals they promised as a condition of their successful election (aka getting hired) in a more timely manner than election only.

They should have to account for the use of their time while "on the clock" for the time spent on the job doing what they were "hired" to do.
In this day and age of webcams, twitter, blogging, GPS, biometrics, etc. (although electronic data is the absolute easiest type to manipulate and falsify) it shouldn't be hard to implement a regimen that makes them accountable and have their day-to-day activities be easily accessible public knowledge.

Their monetary renumeration (pay) should be based on their ability to achieve those goals in a manner that is the most cost effective for their employer (those that elected them) and impacts the environment the least, instead of having their pay raises being governed solely by themselves.
When was the last election for gov't pay raises you could vote on that you can remember?

Now all of these point to the idea that there needs to be a body that oversees the gov't, essentially a global overseeing committee OF gov't (or a gov't of gov't), but in being a governing body, it is just as susceptible to corruption and intractability as any gov't has proven to be.

How this can be accomplished is a task that is not easily undertaken or practiced by a keyboard jockey in 30 minutes worth of "thinking" and typing (which is essentially what I am).
Historically the only thing to bring about any of the principals I outline above is bloody revolution which I cannot, with clear conscience, suggest, yet.

I think that people need those intensely interested in current events and how the gov't has influenced those events to make sure that atrocities that have gone before not be repeated, or at least go unreported using modest and uncompensated methods (like posting to sites like this).
But the public has to listen and think, which is proven to not be easy or usual these days.

Other than that, realization of the aim of this site (free, or individually produced energy) would be a major stepping stone to wresting the power that gov't has accrued through slight of hand or public ennui back into the hands of the public.
It's the publics responsibility to want to listen and think about what they've heard to make gov't fear the wrath of the common man as the comman man fears the gov't today.

It might not happen as it's not easy or fun, but it is the only thing that will turn the tide towards (resolving) action.

Quote from: ATT on December 05, 2009, 06:40:18 PM
How's the move going, Lee? Haven't talked to you for awhile, Everything going OK?

I'm in San Francisco permanently, now.  However, permanent, affordable housing is a problem to acquire, especially in a serious recession like this one.  *The streets* are a looming issue if I don't get lucky.  I do have a good opportunity at one place I'll apply to shortly.  But, thanks for asking.

I haven't said much in the recent past because other Member's fairly political opinions, IMHO, were being discussed on particular subjects---Like: exactly whose to blame for getting all us Americans in a recession this bad?---that I considered subjective.  Plenty of blame to go around.  Numerical figures can be looked at more than one way and also cherry-picked for "correct interpretation".

I disagree with those who say economic conditions are getting better for the reasons I stated previously.  I say Obama is creating or maintaining another economic bubble and that's what the "recession improvement" proponents are looking at.  Several things could go wrong shortly or eventually.  History says so.  Many times.  Time will tell whether I'm right or wrong.

--Lee

 

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End of my rant of the week.

Not at all, cap, it's good to rant every now and then, helps to centre us out.

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I was hoping for some momentum from the 'Climate Conspiracy Scam'...

Not sure how much 'mileage' that's good for, I'm not convinced there's a connection there aside from media-play gaining more listeners that sniff 'conspiracy', however, that's not to say there isn't vested interests on both sides of the issue, there obviously are, maybe just not the ones you're gunning for.

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...once people become fully aware these media heads have been snowing them, their next thought will be why, and who's paying them off.

You know, the phrases 'people', 'fully aware', 'next thought', might be hanging your hat on some pretty sketchy assumptions.

First:     they don't -listen-.
Second: they don't -hear- when they -do- listen.
Third:    they don't -care- when they -do- hear.

If you have an agenda that you believe in, it takes a lot of work to get others to get to the same place you're at in your head, but it's gotta be legitimised and you have to show them it's important enough to -them- that they should care about it.

Even then, it's an uphill battle that's going to take a lot more organisation than viral-marketing alone to get folks to sign-on.

Figure it out: there's 300M people in the U.S., let's say 100M are kids (don't know the actual number).
That leaves 200M adults with ages (and concerns) going across the board.

Now, go out and get the number of listeners to all the major talk-shows on radio and TV that could make use of (be sympathetic to) your agenda (numbers may be available on the web in a central location, if not, drop an email saying you're considering advertising, they'll shoot you the numbers and the demographics).

Remember, there's no 'ideology' in business, if your stuff fits their format, their listeners will love it, their advertisers will like it and you can probably get some 'play'.

But, you have to do your homework and put together a 'package' these guys can use - you have to 'pitch' the package and provide ongoing support info to keep it going (one-shot isn't going to get it).

Now, getting back to numbers: add the listener-figures together, subtract 20% (same listeners/multiple shows), divide 200M into that number...that's the percentage of adults in the U.S. you can potentially reach directly, you have to count on 'viral' for the others.

You do the same thing on the web, get air-play on C2C (they're always looking for content), pitch your website, provide RSS feeds for your content, get your SEO and backlinks working, do guest spots on other blogs, keep the momentum going, don't let up for a minute.

It's a big job, dude, takes a lot of work and a lot of organization if your serious about getting it out there.

But the first thing you have to do, before any of this, is to investigate your assumptions, identify the individuals and organizations and assemble the 'facts' that back up your hypothesis, otherwise you won't get to square-1.

Tony

Quote from: exxcomm0n on December 05, 2009, 07:36:57 PM
I think that people need those intensely interested in current events and how the gov't has influenced those events to make sure that atrocities that have gone before not be repeated, or at least go unreported using modest and uncompensated methods (like posting to sites like this).
But the public has to listen and think, which is proven to not be easy or usual these days.

(And, yes, 'you' is a generic reference, in this case...but you don't need an invitation, your thoughts are most welcome, anytime on any issue).

Your ideas are right-on, you are definitely the 'voice of reason', but like I said in my post to cap (and you've said the same thing here), getting people to listen requires an 'industrial-strength' solution to bring about.

There is just a small segment that's actually 'interested' and only a percentage of those who would be willing to participate to any degree.

That is, until things fall in on their head, then it's too late.

Tony

Quote from: the_big_m_in_ok on December 05, 2009, 07:48:33 PM
I disagree with those who say economic conditions are getting better for the reasons I stated previously.  I say Obama is creating or maintaining another economic bubble and that's what the "recession improvement" proponents are looking at.

Lee,  I think it's going to go double-dip too, just a matter of time (and it won't be a 'long-time'...).

I think we've both visited this subject before, but more recent posters weren't in on the beginnings so may have missed some of what was said.

In any event, I ran across an article on the web a couple of weeks ago that talked about three guys who bought an apartment bldg. in SF on some sort of government program - they didn't have any money for a down and I think they qualified as vets for reduced payments, but they got it.

I don't know what the program is, didn't save it out, but the VA may have some info on this.

Is SF the city of choice or is it that you have access to VA there? The reason I mention this is it's probably the highest rent-district in the state, but there is easy-access there (trolley, bus, train, plane) and anything you want within a small area (NYC is kinda like that, too).

Anyway, if I can dig up that article I'll shoot you a link.

Tony