Quote from: mariuscivic on June 14, 2011, 07:36:01 PM
Hi guys!

For now I made 4 coils. From the 2 pickup coils i get around 7.5V but, when i put a load , mr. Lenz is pasing by. Am I on the right path?

moderator edit: I just changed the picture size to keep the page clean. Note: use http://www.irfanview.net/ (which is free) and go to Image->Resize (Ctrl-R), and on the popup box click "Half" as many times as necessary and than save the file.

^ Looks great, you used a hard drive motor for the bearing? I am building something similar and need longer screws for mounting the rotor to the motor, do you know the thread pitch on those things? Peace rawbush

Gyula, I agree entirely with your analysis, especially the point about maintaining Q > 1 through the ‘switching’ of the coil due to voltage thresholds.

Incidentally, a single diode with sinusoidal input also has the effect of ‘insulating’ the following impedance (i.e. the output load) from the input , so that the input only experiences half the output impedance (assuming a pure sine wave). Whilst there is a more formal method of proving this effect , in simple terms the input only ‘sees’ the output for the half of the time the diode is forward conducting! Although this effect is not relevant with a FWBR as used in Romero's device, it is nevertheless a further illustration of the general principle that loaded Q can be improved by switching (which effectively reduces the load impedance).

On a separate matter, I think the recent contribution to this thread by Ole Nielsen is also very interesting. Whilst I may not yet agree fully with certain aspects of that analysis (I am still thinking about it), I do think there is merit in that way of thinking and the fundamental points made therein. Also, that analysis need not be contradictory to the ‘resonance’ explanation explored by myself and others â€" both explanations could be regarded as different sides of the same coin (wherein additional energy is extracted from the vacuum/aether/zero-point field). In a similar vein, both matrix mechanics and the schrodinger wave equation have been demonstrated to be equivalent representations of the same underlying quantum mechanics despite their apparent radically different approaches to the topic.

Regards,
Nigel

finally ran my romeromullergenmotor type thing today...first testing...

it has 5 coils on top plate 5 coils on bottom plate.
coils have ferrite tube core, and litz wire wound of 16 strands of very thin 36GA "heavy build" insulated motor-rated wire of 96ft lengths...teflon tape over each layer too...

magents are rod-style, neodiimiums,  not hockey puck style.
they are the same shape and size as the ferrite tubes used as cores - about 14mm long and 8mm wide approx

mosfets are hooked up bidirectioinal, two IRF 740s and run by 4221 driver and hall effect.
made a timing disc for the hall effects with some small magnets in it...it spins above the rotor and coils spaced up and aways so magnets behind the cores on top plate wont affect the hall effects on adjusable/rotating plate next to timing disc with the small magnets.

ran it around 3500rpm at 400ma and 22V input (at first - got amps down to 200ma later on)

had some success years ago running the coils all in series in my Muller goatmotor, so did that on one plate of coils...of course the 5 coils are all out of phase to the 4 all-N rotor magnets, and tired it like this as motor-coils (all 5 in siereis) and it ran fairly slow maybe 1000rpm tops with 22V input, but draw was only 40ma approx....the timing can be adjsuted as the motor runs, this is good thing to have. since timign at 100rpm is differnt thing as at 3500rpm and load on rotor also will make for differnt timing to motor coil pulsing..

also if amnyone wants to try runinng coils in series, simply put meter in AC, and hook one coil up in seires to another - you will get greater voltage in one way to hook up as to the other way, so go with the higher voltage, then stirng next coil and so on until they are all in seires and you get greatest voltage. This also gets the coils setup to work as motor coils, as well as gernator coils.

After trying the 5 coils on one plate "in otu of phase" series as motor coils, wasnt that impressed but it went OK, jsut needed more volts for some mrore speed....its wehn you take out switched-backemf that you get big power gain from this confiuration but going to save that for later on...

so anyways went instead to pulsing jsut one coil on bottom plate as motor coil, so it ran now on 400ma and now goes 3500rpm approx (used scope to find rpms)
and now th 5 coils in series on top plate have become all-generator coils in this testing....

magnets on the backs of the 5 coils in series tests didnt help at all both in motor-mode and genrator mode which makes sense sine the mish mash signal from 5 output of phase coils to the 4 rotor magnets is too nuts for magnet to help out things mounted in back of cores.

BUT had very good success with magnets behind the single motor coil - in fact draw goes down by 1/2 instantly however you dont really see any dramatic  faster speed or power but draw goes down so that is all good...so its running on only 200ma and 22V and going that 3500rpm approx whihc is very fast...

as it runs like this, now am taking a look at those 4 in-series outofphase coils on top plate working as gernator coils - put my multimeterin AC jsut to make it simple and quick to test things.... I dont care exact values jsut want to see more or less and konw its not a nice AC sinewave  - BUT  its 18VAC on meter for all 5 coils in series, and 3.5A on meter in ACamps if you short the coils out across them with ammeter...rpms go down when getting tha 3.5A (lenz law)

to get rid of lenz put an AC cap in series making it wokr like bufer/high bypass filter/whatever on one of the lines running to the ammeter which is shorting the coils (its good to use ammeter in place of wire when shorting so you can get idea of amps)

tired differnet series-AC cap sizes - at 10 uf there is 1amp circulating, at 1uf there is 200ma circulating....works like that...best size series AC cap to loop I figure is 4uf since it is 500ma amps going thorugh the "short' and voltage stays same at 18VAC no matter the cap size AND ablsolutemly no added draw to motor with that size cap (4uf) in series.

So I think this does what Mr Bolt reccomends - jam the current out of phase with the voltage so no lugging occurs....i like to think of it as the series-cap simply "absorbs" the backemf that would normally lug the rotor.

anyways at 4uf "tuning" there is absolutely no extra draw or reduced speed  to the motor part of it...when you rectify and put into cap that "18VAC" on meter, it becomes around 30VDC in cap so this is good - so you could say i am getting 500ma approx and 30VDC out from 5 coils, and runnign on 200ma and 22VDC and ablsoutley nothing happens to motor when you short out the coils with that ammeter.

I made a copy-cat of this motor so plan on running one motor with the other to loop but might be able to do it all within one motor - run top into bottom etc

ran motor for about 2 hrs at that speed mosfets stayed cool as cucumber and so did the single motor coil the magnet behind the core of the motor coil got a little warm is all...

Quote from: konehead on June 15, 2011, 01:53:32 AM
...
to get rid of lenz put an AC cap in series making it wokr like bufer/high bypass filter/whatever on one of the lines running to the ammeter which is shorting the coils (its good to use ammeter in place of wire when shorting so you can get idea of amps)

tried differnet series-AC cap sizes - at 10 uf there is 1amp circulating, at 1uf there is 200ma circulating....works like that...best size series AC cap to loop I figure is 4uf since it is 500ma amps going thorugh the "short' and voltage stays same at 18VAC no matter the cap size AND ablsolutemly no added draw to motor with that size cap (4uf) in series.
....

anyways at 4uf "tuning" there is absolutely no extra draw or reduced speed  to the motor part of it...when you rectify and put into cap that "18VAC" on meter, it becomes around 30VDC in cap so this is good - so you could say i am getting 500ma approx and 30VDC out from 5 coils, and runnign on 200ma and 22VDC and ablsoutley nothing happens to motor when you short out the coils with that ammeter.

I made a copy-cat of this motor so plan on running one motor with the other to loop but might be able to do it all within one motor - run top into bottom etc

ran motor for about 2 hrs at that speed mosfets stayed cool as cucumber and so did the single motor coil the magnet behind the core of the motor coil got a little warm is all...

Hi Doug,

Sounds very good, congratulations.  If you wish to loop back some part of the output to run the motor, I would like to recommend member keykhin DC-DC converter, mainly because it is able to handle your 30V DC output voltage (this will be the input to the DC-DC converter) and can easily be modified by a resistor its output voltage to your 22V DC input for the motor drive (as shown, the DC converter output is 12.2V at present, you can replace the lower 1.5 kOhm resistor at the output (it is in series with the 5.6 kOhm) with a 10 kOhm (or 22 kOhm) potmeter to adjust the output to your 22V voltage need.
Here is a link to the converter, a very good circuit, (the TL494 is cheap):
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=3842.msg287703#msg287703 

Any other attempt to use for looping like using Zener diodes or linear regulators (like LM7818) could also work but the convertion efficiency of them is inferior to that of the switch mode DC DC converter like the link shows. Of course if your present COP is still able to cover the inferior convertion efficiency, then you may use a linear voltage regulator LM7818 or LM7824.  (In case of the LM7818 you can insert a 4.7kOhm trimmer potmeter in series with the center pin #2, leading to the negative ground to raise the fix 18V up to your needed 22V.)

Another off the shelf variable output DC regulator is the well known LM317, it needs a 5 kOhm potmeter to adjust its output voltage, see the last but one schematic here: http://home.cogeco.ca/~rpaisley4/PSupply.html
Use heat sink for this IC too to defend it from overdissipation.
Dissipation: (30V-22V)*0.2A=8V*0.2A=1.6W

A link to Digikey: http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=LM317TFS-ND

And a link to the LM7818, it needs a single 4.7 or 5kOhm potmeter only:
http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?vendor=0&keywords=lm7818&stock=1

rgds,  Gyula