sorry if I got people a little distracted by my scope-thoughts, but what I was saying is that IF you want to make an AC MOTOR (not generator) from a Muller-type rotor, simply space magnets same distance apart measured edge to edge as the width of the emagnets and it will scream on an AC signal into a single coi or more, (positioned in phase, not odd vs even thing)

I am almost sure the reason Romero goes wtih large spacing in between rotor magnets and also all same polarity magnets is becasue of the helper-magnet behind the cores, in order for them to do the job correctly...so that whole differnt ball game than an AC motor of this flat-rotor design.

Allso, having all magnets S facign up or all N facing up probably doesnt matter too much in the Romero machines, but if you have a N-triggered hall effect on top of rotor,  then it is good idea to have S magnets facing up.

I made long ago Mullergen spun by rotorvertor motor at 1800rpm that had 32 N-S neomagnets in rotor and when I switched from coils of 18GA wire to coils with the same ferrite cores and near same resistance to litz-wound coils (very thin 36GA wire 16 syrand paralell) then I got THREE TIMES more power produced.
Same amps, but three times the voltage with resistive load....
eveybody told me this is because with 32magnets going 1800rpm past acoil its now HF, so you have to have litz wire for high frequency stuff which is probably right answer.
HOWEVER the frequency of the sine wave or the DC pulsed sinewave (like Romeros) is one thing; that is sort of constant frequency way to think of high frequency but think also of a high frequency "event" - maybe use the word SPEED here instead of frequency....
Things like the recoil spike flowing back out backwards from the coil is one thing - someone once told me this is twice the speed of light, since it goes "both directions" at once (!) Dont know about that but sounds good.

Another could-be very high speed event is the polarity-shift of a coil, and the polarity shift of a core too...maybe a core or a coil "wants to" shift polarity faster than speed of light ? (nevermind about that)

antoher high speed event is the collapsing, and the spring-like rebounding of a coil, and the resulting oscillations too, from the release/switch opening of the collapse ...(the "shorting" of a coil does this and so does a Tesla spark gap too and I bet too, so does the immediate polarity shift of a CORE inside a coil...this is what Romores helper magnets must do - -teeter-totter that core so it flips much faster than the coil does, and it drags the coil "down" into the collapsing blackhole region along with it....(a bit theatric here)
anyways this is why I think Litz is so important in romero rigs - it is just way more effecient in being able to keep up in speed with the CORE's polarity flip from the helper/regauging magnets
If you want to start running your litz wired coils in bifilar or quad filar or septfilar series-adding hookups, be aware that the litz wire Romero used is "solderable" variety...it says that right on spool...this is really crappy wire and is made so a soldeing iron will melt through it (AKA electronic "hook up" wire not made for motor or gernator use) and the coils will not last very long with all the vibrations going on....you need to use motor or generator-rated wire, they sometimes call it  "heavy build" in reference to the varnish coating too...its nice thing to wrap layer of teflon plubing tape over each layer for more protecion from vibrations and chaffing too....

Quote from: slapper on June 25, 2011, 01:34:58 AM
don't know why. it kind of reminds me of a video @TinselKoala did,
i think ( can't find the video ), where he demonstrated induction
transfer between two pancake coils using a rotary spark gap. one
pancake was a single conductor, the other was bi-filer.

from what i recall the transfer of energy was higher when the bi-filer
was primary.

for some reason i keep thinking this is related. but it just can't be
that easy.

take care.

nap

I remember that TK vid.  For one he did the test for OC if I remember correctly. 
But if you look at teslas way, he seemed to  have the secondary, or primary, either way was shown, at the outer edge of the pancake, not cake to cake the way TK did it. I believed TK had shown the improper way on purpose.  Like some of his debunk projects. They are way off of being replicas, but are used to prove the original wrong.  Weird.

By the way,  Has anyone that knows OC heard from him or about him?  I had heard he died. Not sure.  I actually read it in a post from TK, and it seemed actually rude.


Mags

Quote from: Magluvin on June 25, 2011, 01:54:54 AM
<snip>But if you look at teslas way, he seemed to  have the secondary, or primary, either way was shown, at the outer edge of the pancake, not cake to cake the way TK did it.</snip>

it seemed to leave an impression on me that a bi-filer wound coil can transmit a stronger field than the single wound coil
and the single wound coil receives better than the bi-filer coil.

nap

Quote from: penno64 on June 24, 2011, 05:13:31 PM
Very, very, very clever Romero!

Now I understand WHO was not happy with your actions.

Wonder how long it will take for the next person to find this?

Penno

So, nice to see you found out that bifilar coils could also work, but WHO was not happy with RUKs actions according to you?

Here is a very rough drawing of how I wired my homemade 5 strand (0.2mm) coil.

I am now back at the bench and am about to wind a homemade seven strand for testing.

For those that can not see what we have, I can tell you that it is a reduced lenz generator.

There are so many combinations to test. I am sure you will be impressed by the speed up.

Don't forget, you need to be over a certain RPM to start with.

Tesla, lets not worry about who and press on.

The word I have is that many new things will be found. Persist and experiment.

Just in case you thinking - does he have working system ? The answer is NO. I don't yet.

Nonetheless, much tuning will still be required - I have been told.

Penno