@ All,

RomeroUK admitted himself that coil design was the weakest point of his device. In the real Muller motor every coil is pulsed. This is a huge difference. Besides, the coil shape might be very important. "The Muller motor" section in the PJKBook suggests a stepwise winding of coils. It does make sense to me.

Best Wishes,

yfree

Quote from: Artist_Guy on June 26, 2011, 09:07:26 PM
Yeah, but since every other spec has been re-dacted or re-directed, maybe parallel isn't the ticket and series (for all pairs) is, so 2.x * 7 = 14+ into a 12v DC converter into drive coils = ?

Worth yet another goose chase maybe.  I'd do it, but I still don't have my cores cut.

No i very much doubt that as Romero started off with one or two coils as he built his rig and still had very good voltage. The only way i know how is to use the multi strand wire and keep making bifilars out of it as many times as you can.  You don't have to use the litz wire you can use any normal magnet wire. The following are my suggestions of things you can try before you push your muller to the back shelf and give up!

Lets say we use the 7 strands stuff as that is what Romero said he had available and normally at 2500 rpm you get 3 volts from a normal wound coil. Now take 2 of those strands and cross the ends of two pairs over to make a series bifilar. The voltage is now 6v from out of this pair. FOR THE SAME MAGNETIC FLUX.

Now take another 2 wire pair do the same again so you have another 6v pair

Now take another 2 wire pair  do the same again so you have another 6v pair

finally you got 3 pairs producing 6v each so wire them in series with the other pairs WITHIN the same coil winding gives 18v coils from the same amount of copper compared to a standard filar coil. If all the strands of  multi-filar coil are simply soldered at the ends it is treated no different to a normal single filament  coil (except in very high frequency use). This is why most of you only getting a couple of volts out of the coils.

NOW do the same with the pulse coils. Compared to a single filament lets say 250 turns of single magnet wire or litz wire provides X magnetic flux or if powered continuous can pick up 2 paper clips. Litz wire in coils or generators will generate about 50% MORE magnetic flux for the  same i/p power as a single filar coil of the same turns and mass. So we are going to use this advantage and take it a step further.

If you use the bifilar stuff again take 2 strands cross a pair to make series connection and label a1 b1

do the next pair label a2 b2 and so on a3 b3  = 3 bifilars pairs now wire these in PARALLEL the odd wire number 7 just include it anywhere to use it up as each pair DOUBLES the magnetic flux produced  for each bifilar wound compared to single filament. Now this coil produces 6 times more magnetic flux for the same amount of copper as a normal wound coil and can (or should) pick up 12 paper clips) but the current will increase slightly due to less resistance in the wire end to end which explains why Romero pulse takes 12 watts.  This provides a very large mechanical gain for just a small increase in drive power.

The o/p coils on the other hand are all pumping 6 times more voltage compared to standard coils.

Try it and let me know!

Ed: i found this to explain my concept  http://www.tesla-coil-builder.com/bifilar_electromagnet.htm

Quote from: bolt on June 26, 2011, 10:28:41 PM
No i very much doubt that as Romero started off with one or two coils as he built his rig and still had very good voltage. The only way i know how is to use the multi strand wire and keep making bifilars out of it as many times as you can.  You don't have to use the litz wire you can use any normal magnet wire. The following are my suggestions of things you can try before you push your muller to the back shelf and give up!

Lets say we use the 7 strands stuff as that is what Romero said he had available and normally at 2500 rpm you get 3 volts from a normal wound coil. Now take 2 of those strands and cross the ends of two pairs over to make a series bifilar. The voltage is now 6v from out of this pair. FOR THE SAME MAGNETIC FLUX.

Now take another 2 pairs do the same again so you have another 6v pair

Now take another 2 pairs do the same again so you have another 6v pair

finally you got 3 pairs producing 6v each so wire them in series with the other pairs WITHIN the same coil winding gives 18v coils from the same amount of copper compared to a standard filar coil. If all the strands of  multi-filar coil are simply soldered at the ends it is treated no different to a normal single filament  coil (except in very high frequency use). This is why most of you only getting a couple of volts out of the coils.

NOW do the same with the pulse coils. Compared to a single filament lets say 250 turns of single magnet wire or litz wire provides X magnetic flux or if powered continuous can pick up 2 paper clips.

If you use the bifilar stuff again take 2 strands cross a pair to make series connection and label a1 b2

do the next pair label a2 b2 and so on a3 b3  = 3 bifilars pairs now wire these in PARALLEL the odd wire number 7 just include it anywhere to use it up as each pair DOUBLES the magnetic flux produced  for each bifilar wound compared to single filament. Now this coil produces 6 times more magnetic flux for the same amount of copper as a normal wound coil and can (or should) pick up 12 paper clips) but the current will increase slightly due to less resistance in the wire end to end which explains why Romero pulse takes 12 watts.  This provides a very large mechanical gain for just a small increase in drive power.

The o/p coils on the other hand are all pumping 6 times more voltage compared to standard coils.

Try it and let me know!

Sounds like this might work.. great thinking!

10uF 100V Non-Polarized Capacitor
http://www.amazon.com/Parts-Express-10uF-Non-Polarized-Capacitor/dp/B0002KR4SY/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1309143351&sr=8-1

Something that makes sense is the gen coils have capacitance, due to they put out best at certain rpm. So they are freq dependent.

We have seen no caps, so bifi, trifi, what ever, is what is needed. Say we have 3 pairs series. I dont think the ohms will be 2.   Not to say that in the beginning that Romero didnt keep this bifi stuff to himself. Being that, he may have also just given us the 2ohm variable so we know that 300 turns will give that value just for confirmation of 300turns. ;]

The self capacitance of a normal coil is very small and I suspect very high freq for any resonance.

Now measuring inductance of a bifi might be difficult with added capacitance of a bifi, trifi, etc.. Dont know.

So Im for the bifi, trifi and one needs to test it for its resonant freq and to get the rotor to be at the speed for that particular coil set.
Im sure some have a signal gen to test this. If the freq is to high, then redesign for what the rotor can accomplish.

Mags