Quote from: Loner on August 10, 2011, 12:08:08 AM
I just thought I should mention this, and I'm sure most already know it, but for the newcommers....

This is "Exactly" how a "Real" Tesla Transformer primary is wound....
(Noted in very few places, and listed in a couple patents.  More info from papers published, etc., but this is common knowledge to Tesla studiers.)

I could elaborate, and mention recent papers and patents showing that an "Antiphase" or "Counter-wound" (Many other names, as well.)  is a lot more common than one would think.  Last patent I saw relating to the concept was in mid-late 80's, but I'm not as much of a reader these days.

As long as this is a "Single Layer", the field is easy to visualize, but multi-layer should make you think about winding methods.  I hope this gives a clue, as I'm certainly not the expert.  (And, Yes, I have several transformers wound this way, but never considered what it would mean to take such a coil, magnetically bias it one way with the attached magnets, then reverse this bias with the rotor.  Sure seems simple now, though..)

Oh Well, what do I know....

(Harvesting this is already well-documented in Tesla's Patents, as well, if you can get past the modern day assumptions about electricity.  Most cannot.  Dump Caps are one tough method, but workable.  Remember, resonance of such is not related to standard frequency calcs.  Again, ignore me, as I really don't know that facts any better than the other more-qualified around here.)

If you have something to elaborate on concerning generator coils wound in such fashion, please go ahead )

the most super coils possible are like this in my opinion:

get rid of core altogether, in its place wind an inner "pikcup/secondary" coil -
and around this inner "core"-coil, then wind the "primary/motor coil - this the coil that actualy takes a hit of juice.

all around the primary/motor wind another pikcup/secondary coil, it being as big as what distance the flux-field will extend to, when the inner primary/motor coil is energized.

then also, wind more winds BEHIND the primary/motor coil too - that is wasted energy back there doing nothing, so collect it via these pickup secondary winds backe there....the backside of coil has as strong as flux as the frontside so why waste it...

Additinally, wind the primary/motor coil BIFILAR, and energize only one half of this primary/motor bifilar coil, and have the other half become a "pickup/secondary/ coil.

so now you have captured ALL of the "ambient flux" , AROUND, BEHIND, INSIDE and WITHIN the primary coil...this will also catch the backemf recoil, too, because of the tight induction between the bifilar primary and secondary....

so put this ambeint-flux energy you gather into a capacitor, let capacitor loose to load when primar/motor coil is OFF between pulses and also you might want to thave a two stage output circuit too, whereas the capacitor is disconnected from the pickup coils it gathers energy from, when cap hits load.

Under high frequencies, the inner pikcup coil taking place of core, will work like a core does, concentrating the field Ismael tells me, in his high frequency stuff.

Also all those pickup winds will work jsut like regular generator coils with rotor of magnets passing by....so this means you can SWITCH SHORT AT PEAKS all those pickup winds too...and increase power stored into caps huge.

All this describes something I built last winter (still a bit top secret) and also describes the "basics" Ismales MEG technology and how he recycles the power slammed into his coils in his  7500VDC "repelling force" demonstrations where he knocks a 1 kilo weight coil up in air 33fett in less thatn second 16 times with single 9V battery and two small AAs also in siereis for 12V and so only around 300mAH of current available and batteris only drop from 12.4V to 11.8V after 16 hits up in air, with 12 seconds recharge time between blasts. The way he keeps the battery charged-up after each blast is with massive pickup winds collecting the ambeint flux surrounding the primary that gets the jolt of 7500VDC

@Loner: The thing is that a primary is always electrically in phase. You "send" the current through the complete length of wire and get 2 magnetic fields that are said to be cancelling. Even though that only happens during the off time switching phase.
In a generator coil, you will have out-of-phase currents.
Sure your lenz-related currents will also cancel, but so does the induced EMF.
I am very curious how to get those in-phase again for powering a load or doing some magic tuning tricks to fill caps up. Maybe there is no hope and they are already cancelling themselves dead in the coils, something like that is not present in the literature.

Using 2 bucking coils that are themselves bucking coils seem to be behaving the same way. You won't have perfect cancellation because the more remote half of the coil from the magnet will see slightly less flux.
Yet hopefully someone will test that configuration.
Maybe the fact that there is 2 physically distant sources for 1 phase of current will change the outcome, who knows.

Since I had a spare monofilar and bifilar coil sitting around, I wound a Caduceus coil for comparison.  Trust me, it was not fun nor easy.  I started with the same length of wire used on the other two, but could not get all that wire on the bobbin due to the sloppy nature of overlapping the wires while winding in different directions.

Coils without cores as wound:

Caduceus coil: .171 mH
Monofilar coil:  .396 mH
Bifilar coil:      .376 mH

I then "tuned" all coils to exactly .500 mH (on my meter) by inserting ferrite cores.  The .500 mH value was chosen because it was near exactly where the ferrite would become flush with one end of the Caduceus coil.  The other two needed very little ferrite introduced to obtain the same inductance on the meter.

I then placed each coil over my spinning Muller rotor.  Keep in mind that this means they are relatively very far away from the magnets (>25mm).  This was just a relative test. 

Output voltage results:

Caduceus coil:  .24V p2p
Monofiler coil:  .22V p2p
Bifilar coil:       .18V p2p

M.

Quote from: mondrasek on August 10, 2011, 05:17:20 PM
Since I had a spare monofilar and bifilar coil sitting around, I wound a Caduceus coil for comparison.  Trust me, it was not fun nor easy.  I started with the same length of wire used on the other two, but could not get all that wire on the bobbin due to the sloppy nature of overlapping the wires while winding in different directions.

Coils without cores as wound:

Caduceus coil: .171 mH
Monofilar coil:  .396 mH
Bifilar coil:      .376 mH

I then "tuned" all coils to exactly .500 mH (on my meter) by inserting ferrite cores.  The .500 mH value was chosen because it was near exactly where the ferrite would become flush with one end of the Caduceus coil.  The other two needed very little ferrite introduced to obtain the same inductance on the meter.

I then placed each coil over my spinning Muller rotor.  Keep in mind that this means they are relatively very far away from the magnets (>25mm).  This was just a relative test. 

Output voltage results:

Caduceus coil:  .24V p2p
Monofiler coil:  .22V p2p
Bifilar coil:       .18V p2p

M.

With that inductance value, it is no "real" caduceus
I never managed to make a good one with multiple Layers, it's too tedious.
The nodes must be in one axial-oriented line.