My dear MilesOutOfTouch

Quote from: MileHigh on May 12, 2012, 11:10:27 AM
You are doing much better here.  You errors are highlighted but otherwise you are on the right track.  Now please go and review TK's discussion and retract your statement.

MileHigh

I have NOTHING to retract.  TK has been trying to promote the argument that 0.32mA x battery voltage gives 20 WATTS.  It is stated unambiguously - SPECIFICALLY and REPEATEDLY.  It was WRONG.  It still IS WRONG. It does NOT represent watts.  It is NOT EVEN CLOSE.

Rosie Posie

And MAY I ADD.  Your applied unit of watts is applied PER SECOND over time TO GIVE THE PRODUCT AS JOULES.  AGAIN.  However it is that one determines that RATE of applied watts - it is then applied as A RATE PER SECOND in order to compute that Joules value. The applied wattage rate is ALWAYS IN TERMS OF TIME.  Both first to determine that rate and then to determine the quantity of the energy

You have to retract the statements you made about these comments by TK:

QuoteA Joule is a quantity of ENERGY. There is NO TIME INVOLVED, just as there is no time involved in a "mile" or a "quart" or a "rock" or a "mosfet" or a "bag of peanuts".  POWER IS A RATE, not a quantity. There is TIME involved in POWER. That same JOULE of energy could be dissipated very quickly or dragged out over a long time. You can eat a bag of peanuts all at once (one bag per minute for one minute), or you can eat one nut per day for many weeks (one one-hundredth of a bag per day for one hundred days). The WATT is the RATE at which JOULES are dissipated. A WATT is one Joule PER SECOND. NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND. If you dissipate ONE JOULE very quickly you have a HIGH POWER LEVEL. if you dissipate that SAME ONE JOULE very slowly, you have a LOW POWER LEVEL. One Joule can be turned into KILOWATTS of power for a brief instant or it can be turned into microWatts of power for a much longer interval. One WATT, though... is ALWAYS one Joule PER SECOND. If I go through a tenth of a Joule of energy per a tenth of a second, the power is ONE WATT during that tenth of a second (0.1/0.1 = 1). If I dissipate 1000 Joules of energy per 1000 seconds, the power is ONE WATT for that entire time of 1000 seconds. Observe: (1 watt) x (1000 seconds) == 1000 Wattseconds.... aka 1000 JOULES. Note the technical use of the common words PER, indicating a division operation, and FOR, indicating a multplication operation. One WATT FOR 1000 SECONDS == 1 x 1000 == 1000 Joules. One thousand Joules PER 1000 seconds == 1000/1000 = 1 Joule PER second == one WATT. ENERGY, Joules, is CONSERVED. ENERGY IN = ENERGY OUT. POWER, Watts, is not necessarily conserved. A peak level of 1 kW input power can result in peak output power levels of hundreds of kiloWatts or more if the energy discharges are made FOR very short durations.

Here is the statement you have to retract:

QuoteAs is this entire paragraph.  From beginning to end. It is self-evidently and ENTIRELY ridiculous.

MileHigh

This is awkward and obtuse and contains mistakes but you are still on the right track:

QuoteAnd MAY I ADD.  Your applied unit of watts is applied PER SECOND over time TO GIVE THE PRODUCT AS JOULES.  However one determines that RATE of applied watts - it is then applied as A RATE PER SECOND in order to compute that Joules value.

You have to review the material 50 times until it becomes second nature.  You have to be able to express yourself without getting tripped up.

And Rosemary, what is this all about?

QuoteTK has been trying to promote the argument that 0.32mA x battery voltage gives 20 WATTS.

Isn't the battery voltage 62 volts in this example?  I believe that the current is 320 milliamperes.  I am also suspecting that's what you really meant to say in the quote above.

So 62 volts x 0.32 amperes = 19.84 watts = "20 watts."

So what is your problem here?

MileHigh

@milehigh


The problem is that she is still conflating rate and quantity, or at least using these terms interchangeably in calculations and discussions, whatever her internal mental state of understanding is.


She keeps saying "Watts PER second" when what she actually means is "Watt-seconds". Her use of PER is not as per the dictionary, for this use case. I think she's failing to grasp that Watts is a figure which is always normalised to mean an equivalent per-second rate, and is therefore routinely applied to any period.