Quote from: mrwayne on August 12, 2012, 10:52:50 AM

Can he fly?

I believe he can soar.  Or at least did at one time.  So that might be an option.

Now the Chowyote is another question.

I doubt TK would want to put Maggie through the stress of such a short flight.  But I assume too much if I try to speculate what Al might want to do.  So I'll wait and listen.

M.

It is always difficult to prove that a OU system works and is indeed OU because people will be extremely sceptical.

In my opinion it is also impossible to calculate or to describe the "essential OU power generating part" using conventional formulas (conventional physics) because the OU part will violate conventional understanding. To describe the "essential OU power generating part" new formulas and a new theory will be needed.

But it is absolutely necessary that the inventor shows a machine that works over a long period (let's say at least a day) and puts out a considerable amount of net energy during that period continuously  (let's say at least about 50 Watt for 24 hours).

I will believe in Mr. Wayne's hydro system once a credible witness reports that she/he has seen the machine work for at least a day and that she/he measured the output during this period. (Since there seems to be no input, output measurement will be sufficient and of course it should be checked whether there really is no input).


This said, I do not understand why we have no reports of this kind so far. The witnesses who came forward in this thread only reported about the character of Mr. Wayne, but did not see the machine in a working state and could not do measurements.

It is also very difficult to digest why the web site of Mr. Wayne does not disclose such a trivial test (together with comprehensible measurements, e.g. net output of a machine over 24 hours, may be also a video).

Why should any one travel to Mr. Wayne's location as long as there is no machine running consistently with a measurable net output?

Why should any one try to replicate Mr. Wayne's machine as long as there is no machine running consistently with a measurable net output?

Greetings, Conrad

Conrad,

First, thanks for the input.

Second, here is just one (my) idea for a response to your well stated post:

What if RIGHT NOW is the time when the ZED system is first being publicly displayed for our scrutiny?

What if all previous testing, builds, etc., were not documented and posted on the 'net?

What if the described and patented system was developed, tested, and scrutinized for several years before even the "inventor" was convinced enough that it was not a "pipe dream" and was ready to face the pubic?

Please do not take anything I posted as an attack, Conrad.  I deffinitely did not mean it as so and only want to hear your response to these "counter thoughts."

M.

Conrad:

I think that you make a lot of good points.  To add to your thoughts let me share a few ideas.

There is no point visiting Wayne without knowing ahead of time what the power production will be and what form it will be in.  For example, supposing the claim is that system drives a generator continuously, and the generator output is 100 watts.  If that is the claim then fine, you now can ask what the output voltage and frequency is for the generator under load, and what the load resistor is.

Supposing the generator outputs a sine wave at 25 Hz, and with the load resistor connected to the generator output, the RMS output voltage is 50 volts.  So P = V^2/R, therefore R = V^2/P = (50 x 50)/100 = 25 ohms.

So, you need a 100-watt 25-ohm resistor to connect to the generator.  Let's assume you can go onto the DigiKey web site and find 5-ohm 20-watt white ceramic resistors.  They might be the size of a small chocolate bar.   So Wayne orders five of these resistors and solders all five in series and connects the resistor array to the generator output.   The string of resistors is suspended in mid air to allow for measurements and for convection currents for cooling.  Without proper cooling they will burn up.

When you arrive at the site you have a true-RMS multimeter.  You measure the resistance of the load resistor to confirm that it is 25 ohms and you connect it to the generator output and then start up the machine.

Once everything is running you can check things.  You measure the RMS voltage across the load resistor with your true-RMS multimeter and verify that you are measuring 50 volts RMS.  You touch each one of the resistors and verify that they are toasty hot.  You can hear the generator RPM and that gives you auditory feedback that the system is maintaining proper rotational speed and output voltage.

Then you camp out in front of the device for a while.  The best-case scenario would be for two people to camp out in front of the device and take turns sleeping.  We are not going to have a repeat of the fiasco where Sterling went to South Africa and saw a running device for 45 minutes and was "convinced" that it was real.  Then Mark Dansie visited with a full team and within a few hours it was found out that it was not real, it was all a fake.  Talk about a waste of time and serious money, all for nothing.

Note that in the past on this thread I asked about the form of the power output and how it was measured but that was never acknowledged or answered by Wayne.   It would be preferable if two people were to visit Wayne and camp out in front of the device (with tents - no kidding) where they could periodically spot check the load resistor.  That would be approaching the "real thing."  After a while you would not even need to use your meter.  Most of the time you could spot check the power output just by touching one of the 5-ohm resistors and feeling the heat production.

If I was going to cheat I would put some very large commercial compressed air tanks inside the device to power the system.  They are cheap and can store enormous amounts of energy.  So in my personal opinion, one day would not be enough time.  I think that two people would have to camp out in front of the device for a week or more.  You should also have a mechanic's stethoscope and use it periodically to listen in on the operation of the device.  Any anomalous sounds of air hissing outside of the normal operation of the device could be a valve opening and recharging the system with compressed air from a hidden cylinder.  Don't forget that this system is run by a microcontroller for all of the valve timings, and it would be trivial for the programmer to make a program that recharges the system every four hours from one of the compressed air tanks.

This is a proposed real way to test this system.  And if you are going to go visit Wayne to see "proof" that it works, proper due diligence would require something as comprehensive as I outlined above.

MileHigh

Well said Conrad ..

M .. the 'plot thins' ;7)

It seems after reading todays comments that there is a subtle difference in interpretation of what OU actually means - in the traditional sense [perhaps that which we are used to thinking about] a certain Input energy produces a larger Output energy, after accounting for ordinary system losses & perhaps a load/work done by the engine - & an engine it is that Mr Wayne describes.

All engines either use a replenishable fuel source to convert to joules or they make use of a naturally occurring differential that the mechanism can exploit to self sustain itself & do Work [sometimes environmental in origin] - so far, AFAIK, there are no known exceptions.

In this case Mr Wayne describes a process of reduced Input energy which gives rise to a larger Output energy - this may appear as semantics - in effect what he describes is a process that restores ALL Potential Energy & meets ordinary system energy losses [i.e. is self sustaining] AND has capacity to do external Work each cycle.

My interpretation of Mr Wayne's responses & those of his engineers ['that they are comfortable with'] is that they have found a demonstrable way to disprove a fundamental physics principle - that is, the Work-Energy Equivalence Principle.

IOW's, that by pure mechanical means it can be proven that the Work in joules the system does to restore itself is less than the energy in joules [i.e. capacity to do Work] it produces - this indeed would be a paradigm shift in understanding of physics !

Before I would take that plunge I would isolate any & every potential input of energy source from the environment I could think of to make sure it is not a contributing factor - it is a given that there is no fuel source or augmented energy input from the pressurizing system that depletes over time [I think the engineers would be capable of determining that].

Lastly, we would be left with a major conundrum - what "fuels" this engine - AND where did main stream go so wrong in assuming that the Work-Energy Equivalence Principle was inviolate - AND are there any naturally occurring examples now that we know what to look for - ALSO, does this mean the Laws of Thermodynamics are also now tossed out ?

If Mr Wayne & his team are on the level all of those questions will need answering by some big brains.

P.S. also well put Milehigh - couldn't agree more for a true test !