Quote from: TinselKoala on August 23, 2012, 05:56:40 AM
Some more irrelevant irreverent video for your amusement: measuring the pressure head of the Fountain of Heron perpetual self-powered water pump, with several variants tested. You can already see one effect of the precharged TinselZed variant: the "gulping" that is caused by the variation in the internal water levels when I provide some back pressure as I make the head height measurement on that system.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gx0P50ra2go

Nice control tests.  So finally you route the "input" from the top of the fountain into the "Pod chamber" instead of into the outer annulus and you should have the now "corrected" TinselZED output to test by comparison.  If the TinselZED has more output in the "corrected" configuration, your Heron fountain "output" head pressure should increase?

Interesting.

M.

As I said few days ago I am new to the ZED device, curious but not catching up rapidly and have no or little access to the available videos (in SA even a fast internet connection does not allow watching Youtube.com unless in the middle of the night)

I have seen one simple demonstration of the Travis effect which I do not understand, the Archimede principle is not function of the height it is function of the volume of water displaced (this statement is not from me!), if it was function of the height then a thin and tall man with heavy bones would sink in water when in horizontal position and would just have to stand-up in the water to return to the surface. Its not working like this. The archimede force will increase only if the volume of the mass inserted in the water increases; our guy would have to pull out his belly to have a slight chance to float !

Now in the Travis effect demonstration video I have seen, the reason why it takes a heavier weight to keep the second cup under water is because we are compressing the air inside this cup and it is compressed until the air almost escape from the sides (this is a simple piston effect). As soon as the cup move few mm up the effect disappears, unless all the system moves together which is probably how it works. In such case of compressed air, the air volume decreases so the Archimede force decreases too, not what we expect. In addition injecting compressed air required a bigger effort (energy).

I am not saying that it  cannot work, I just dont catch it with the information I have. I believe the Archimede force is like a shielding to gravity, so I would not be surprised someone managed to shield then un-schield and recuperate potential energy this way. Just surprised this happen in 2012 !

To finish, I have seen mentioned large weight involved (thousands of pounds), but when one weight goes up an identical weight goes down so the global effort to move them can be close to zero.

Hope to catch up soon...

About the statements that buoyancy is dependent on the water height...

Officially, buoyancy is dependant on the weight of the water displaced.  But the weight of the water is the Volume x Density of the water.  And the Volume is (for a vertical cylinder like the Pod or Risers) Surface Area (of one end) x Height.

So if buoyancy is:

B = V x d  (where B=buoyancy, V=Volume, and d=density of H2O)

and V = (pi x r^2) x H (where r = radius of the vertical cylinder, and H=height of the submerged portion of the cylinder)

then:

B = (pi x r^2) x H x d

Now for a given cylindrical Pod or Riser:  pi, r, and d are constants.

So the buoyancy will change when the H (height of the submerged portion of the cylinder) changes.

In the ZED setup, we change the amount of water in the system below the Pod and Risers, and this effectively changes the H.

M.

PS.  Sorry not to include units and the proper way to show something "squared."  It is only because the former is too laborious at the moment and the later is something I do not know how!

@Parisd. You say " when one large weight goes up, the other goes down." This is not exactly what is being claimed. In the case of a single Zed, as I understand it, when the Zed reaches the top of its stroke, a large percentage of the weight being lifted can then be removed, leaving sufficient weight to sink the risers as water is released from the pod chamber.
     Now consider Wayne`s large data collection machine. In stead of lifting weights, the effort of the Zes is used to compress hydraulic rams. These are used as pumps . They pump oil into a hydraulic accumulator. The pressurised oil represents stored energy. It is prevented from returning to the rams by one way valves. The stored energy in the accumulator is used for two purposes.


1 Part of the pressurised oil is used to help push water into the pod chambers of each Zed in turn.


2 Part is used to drive a hydraulic motor which turns an alternator to provide "free" output energy.


Hope this helps your understanding.

@mondrasek,
Sure, surface x height = volume of a cylinder, I read that height only was important (not volume)

@neptune,
I would need to see a complete drawing or a 2D animation to have a better idea of what is one Zed what is 2 Zed connected and to see the complexity of the whole system, is it disclosed and available without going to Youtube?

Why store energy in pressurized oil, oil is like water not compressible, it can be pressurized but does not store energy. oil is probably used to transmit energy.

Tks for your previous answers.