Quote from: parisd on August 23, 2012, 02:37:09 PM
@mondrasek,
Sure, surface x height = volume of a cylinder, I read that height only was important (not volume)

@parsid, you may want to read my post again.  I said a lot more than what you quoted.

M.

@parisd. You need to spend more time studying the system. One Zed consists of an outer tank with ring walls inside, and a central floating pod, and a number of concentric risers shaped like inverted cups.


Pressurised oil only stores energy if stored in a hydraulic accumulator. {google it} In its simplest form, think of a balloon inflated with pressurised oil.  As you let the oil out, it emerges under pressure and could be made to do work . A practical accumulator consists, in one type, of a cylinder with a free piston inside . One end contains oil, and the other end contains pressurised nitrogen. Think of the nitrogen as acting like a spring.


Remember that the oil/hydraulic system is separate from the zeds, and just acts to convert the energy from the rising zeds into a rotary motion for the output alternator. There is no OU in the hydraulics, it is just a transmission system . The hydraulic rams-which-are-used-as-pumps, are pushed up by the zeds. They DO NOT push the zeds back down, that is done by gravity.


Hope you totally understand this reply. If not, please ask.


I understand that you can not access Youtube, but there are lots of diagrams in the thread[if you can access them] showing how the system works.


When a Zed is at the top of its stroke, the air and water inside are still under pressure. To lower the Zed we have to let out some water, which is under pressure, and can partly [50%] start to push water into the other Zed. The rest of the energy needed for this process is provided by a ram, fed from the hydraulic accumulator.

Yes, H height of submerged portion of cylinder. Agree with that.



quote author=mondrasek link=topic=10596.msg333365#msg333365 date=1345748635]

@parsid, you may want to read my post again.  I said a lot more than what you quoted.

M.

Quote from: TinselKoala on August 23, 2012, 05:40:17 AM
No, Jim, what I _suggested_ to you is that you take a look at one particular engineering textbook , the fundamental course in engineering mechanics, Beer and Johnston's "Statics and Dynamics" ... one that is used by many colleges of engineering, in its 9th edition, 2010, and I gave you the website for the Student Edition where you have access to just about the entire text. Did you look?
And I also think I reminded you and everyone else that violating the fundamental Laws of Thermodynamics is Big News, not some matter for internet forum chitchat and tinkering. If... that is... it is actually happening. Is that what you are referring to?

Yah, that's pretty personal, I guess.

  you didn't suggest I read it, you said i had to REFUTE what you say. It applies as much to static heads which means you should be making the same refernce to mr. wayne which sounds like a Jim Crow log on.

  tinself kkoala, I do believe you are some who plays with words to play mind games with people. Like you said, you might have been willing to try the pendulum set up but you didn't like my attitude. The videos you posted show no mechanical builds. wrong person for it. Besides, you don't know me yet assume I am stupid because I wasn't fortunate enough to go to college like you.
At least I am intelligent enough to realize in Mr. Travis' "invention" that the staic heads really have no value because the input air pressure detrmines their height. Since they are controlled by the in put energy, it's only the conversion of that into the second cylinder that matters. And as I mentioned, when trying to compress 20 cc of water into a cylinder of 10 cc, the staic head WILL be taller but the height can be reduced to increase pressure. Nothing new there but in this thread it's an invention worth putting considerable effort into. I would've done testing first.
But then, bessler's wheel is a much better idea so will elave you to your forum so you, Alan and Bill can get rid of people you don't like just as they do at besslerwheel dot com where they say engineering doesn't allow for it either.
By the way, check out the continuous flowing water thread, at the end of it is a design where water can keep a hydro machine running using static heads and gravity.
Funny how you ignored a potentially successful design to sqy I'm stupid because I need to read books you've probably have only heard of.
         And btw, tell your friends to quit emssagibng me. it's funny how you say you don't pm other people when you want to go after someone.

                                                                                                                                                    bye                                 

Quote from: mondrasek on August 23, 2012, 12:04:45 PM

Nice control tests.  So finally you route the "input" from the top of the fountain into the "Pod chamber" instead of into the outer annulus and you should have the now "corrected" TinselZED output to test by comparison.  If the TinselZED has more output in the "corrected" configuration, your Heron fountain "output" head pressure should increase?

Interesting.

M.

Yep, and now I've completely revamped the system to incorporate a linked pod-riser. So now the pod is free to float and also carries riser1 along with it, with the innermost ringwall between them and sealed to the chamber floor. I've plumbed in a fitting at bottom center of the chamber, so anything coming in here goes into the space surrounding the pod and defined by the inner ringwall, and I've made a "sub base" to provide ground clearance for this fitting. I've also put a vent fitting in the top of this riser assembly so it can be vented then sealed. I put all this stuff together with clear RTV so it needs to cure until tomorrow before I get it wet. So the stationary unit is the outer chamber with the one ringwall sealed to the bottom, with the central fitting in the bottom. The moving unit is the pod-riser combo that fits into and over the inner ringwall.

So in the original fountain, the down tube goes directly from the input cup to the bottom reservoir. Water coming in raises the air pressure in this chamber, which communicates with the very top of the green input reservoir, increasing the pressure there, which pushes water up the pipette opening which is near the bottom of the green input reservoir. So.... if there is some increase in pressure for a given amount of input water, caused by the geometry of the "tinselZed"... which may now be an actual  Travis Zed by now.... it should show up as increased pumping head, and I believe the system is quite sensitive enough to be able to discriminate slight differences, if there are any. So the effect of even the single-layer Zed, if that's what I've got, could show up in the pressure head measurement at the top. I think. Maybe.

But even if it does, will this mean that the Zedated PerPump is now an overunity pump, in addition to being self-powered and perpetual ?