@Mond: Ok, thanks for the description, almost there with the detail. How is the water reintroduced from the rain gauge to make the upstroke? You have to elevate it from the position where it received the water from the downstroke?

It seems that the work output value is clear from your single dataset: Going in the lifting direction, you are lifting a mass of M of through a height increase of H against a force of G... so you have an increase in the PE of your lifted mass of MGH. (using caps to distinguish from input energy).

And your input.... let's just go by the position of the center of mass of the "slug" of water (no pun intended) in the raingauge before and after the recovery and injection of the water from it.  Say your gauge is empty enough so the CofM of the water remaining is at 2 cm above the bottom, and when you recover the water from the sinking of the big mass the CofM of the gauge water is now at 8 cm above the bottom, for a height gain of h = 6 cm, and a mass of m grams, against that same force of g. So the change in PE of the input can also be measured, apparently fairly easily.

So, a series of multiple, similarly conducted trials that yield an average and a variance (mean and standard deviation) of the input and output PE values would be nice to see. If your fingers don't get all wrinkly and make it hard to type, that is.

ETA: Decaf? DECAFFF?? Surely you jest. I'd just as soon drink.... water. (yechh...)

So the CVS 5ml syringe rings out at about 50ml (yes, ten fills) to about 37 mm in the raingage (conservatively low reading).

And with your other investigative direction...  I am bleeding off water from the bottom of the Pod center tank.  And then RAISING it to pour into the "funnel" that drains down into my input water tube.

Is that raising PE?  I think that is a valid argument!  Either way, do you want a measurement?

M.

OK....So raingauge itself is at a fixed height supported on some kind of stand? With a tube and valve leading to the bottom inlet into the pod chamber of your Zed?

OK... so start with M in the full up position (call this H_M) and some small amt. of water in the gauge. Mark the CofM of the water in the gauge, height h=0. It's OK, I think, to neglect the water in the tube at this point.
Now open your drain valve and let M sink and settle, collecting the water expressed in your cup or whatever. Close your valves. Weigh this water and record the weight. Lift up the cup of water using a hydraulic forklift, chain hoist, a jetpack, or your hand and arm. Pour the water into the rain gauge. This will raise the level of the rain gauge's water CofM by some amount to height h=h_W. Measure this amount and record it.
Now open your valve to allow this water to run back into the Zed pod chamber, raising the M mass from height H=0 to height H=H_M. Record.
Lather, rinse, repeat 20 times to get good data for stats. Make a data table; crunch to means and SDs, calculate PEs and deltas. Report.

How can you even think about taking a vacation at a time like this? You are about to provide the first, really solid, empirical energy input/output numbers from a tabletop overunity buoyancy device. Other than Webby's, of course. Can you beat the 102 percent or so that I calculated from Webby's single data point?

Quote from: TinselKoala on September 07, 2012, 08:34:37 PM
How can you even think about taking a vacation at a time like this? You are about to provide the first, really solid, empirical energy input/output numbers from a tabletop overunity buoyancy device. Other than Webby's, of course. Can you beat the 102 percent or so that I calculated from Webby's single data point?

Ha!  Okay, old man.  Remember when I said this is not my baby to birth?  THAT is why I can still go on vacation (I hope).

My "build" (as it is) and my "data" (as it was) is only presented to answer questions for anyone who wants something more touchy-feely that the word play in the forum.

Mom and child are home and safe now.  So I've got to give up the fight for now and a few days.  I hope to be on-line in NC by Monday.

Sweet dreams.

M.

Thanks Mike .. have a great time - I know you won't even give this discussion board a further thought