Quote from: neptune on September 15, 2012, 07:10:37 AM
We have seen some interesting experiments, with efficiencies as high as 80%. In the Zed, there are a surprising number of variables, and as we know, less than optimum values in these variables are not just additive, they multiply up. So optimisation is elusive, and not achievable overnight. See3d is our biggest hope of optimisation at this point. If 100% is achieved, then the big question becomes, how much of the energy in the exhaust can we utilise without bringing things to a stand still...

100% efficiency is easy to achieve.  A stick is 100% efficient.  Push up 1 inch with 1 pound of force on the bottom and you can raise up a one pound weight sitting on the top by 1 inch (assuming you counterbalance the weight of the stick). 

When a loosely coupled system is less than 100% efficient at lifting a weight, it can still be 100% efficient overall in conserving the input energy.  It is just storing the energy in another form that may be able to be recovered in another way. 

The only real wasted energy comes when input work is converted into something undesired that is not recovered, like heat from friction.

The ZED can be an efficient device when moving slowly.  It can be designed so that there are almost no points of friction in it's operation.  It can have all liquid seals which are practically frictionless.  Air that gets compressed has a heat component, but that component is reversed when it is uncompressed.  From the point of view of friction, it might not be possible to get 100% efficient, but with a well designed, slow moving ZED, it could come very close.

However, 100% efficient operation between input and output is not the goal (though it would be an interesting goal for a loosely coupled, shock absorbing system).

One of the things that can make a ZED more efficient in directly transferring the input to the output is to add more layers.  Each layer is adding another increment of water head to the energy storage part.  That raises the back pressure PSI gradient into the Pod chamber, so more of the input pressure get transferred directly into raising the Pod.  This is an area that I have yet to explore in my sim, so I don't have the definitive formula for it yet.

That is as far as my mental picture has progressed at this stage of understanding the operation of a single, simple ZED (as depicted in my sim).

~Dennis

@See3d. A very informative post. So you are saying that there is a good chance that a single, multilayer Zed can be built to have an efficiency of 100% or very close to it. That being the case, then it all comes down to how much of the exhaust energy we can extract from the system, and still have enough left to complete the cycle.Do you have an opinion on this, please?

Quote from: neptune on September 15, 2012, 12:25:56 PM
@See3d. A very informative post. So you are saying that there is a good chance that a single, multilayer Zed can be built to have an efficiency of 100% or very close to it. That being the case, then it all comes down to how much of the exhaust energy we can extract from the system, and still have enough left to complete the cycle.Do you have an opinion on this, please?

That is the $64,000 question.  I do not have a simulated mechanism for extracting exhaust energy at this time.  I do not want to venture an opinion without more advanced simulation work and build confirmations to back it up. 

Quote from: webby1 on September 15, 2012, 12:34:08 PM
Welcome to the weird world of ZED.

Light loads do not behave the same as a full load, loads and pressures during lift can re-balance during lift or after the lift is done, forces do not appear to behave the same depending on the direction of motion,, strange but there must be a connection.

Impulses into a system can create ringing that take time to settle out.  As it settles, the forces trying to balance become weaker.  The settling process consists of periods of motion reversal, which means it can stop moving at the reversal point.  Even a slight amount of stiction in the system might not be overcome by the weak forces.  A small amount of input energy -- from random vibrations, tapping, foot stomping, etc., can remove stiction and let the settling complete.

I am not sure, but surface tension in a small lightly loaded system may have a similar effect as stiction.  An argument for slightly larger models with a bit larger gap.  These stiction or surface tension factors are beyond my simulations.

@TK

QuoteAny chance of a video showing the effect you describe? Are you sure your plugging of the leaks isn't responsible, rather than the increased load?

No, I can't post that video because I was wrong. Hate it when that happens 
Here is a video link though, should be active any minute now - http://youtu.be/jbT8LwMmv1g

Only thing I can think of that caused that, only thing that changed. The cap I put on the bottom of the pod was leaking slightly, during the couple hours I was playing with it only maybe a tablespoon of water leaked in but I did seal it up better before playing today. The video [obviously] wasn't scripted and I did state at least one thing incorrectly. The outer cylinder is 8" but the next retainer is 7" not 7.5".

Now to run it again without the camera and try to get a few numbers.
Dale