Quote from: neptune on September 20, 2012, 08:15:20 AM
@Red_Sunset. I was interested in your list of categories of contestants; particularly category number one. "Took the challenge and discovered the OU secret [The Eureka Category.]" The word "Took" is the past tense. So presumably, there are people out there who have a successful replication, and know how it works. This being the case, when are their results going to be published? I had assumed that mrwayne`s purpose in issuing the Challenge was publicity and independent verification. My question is, who is hiding their light under a bushel, and for what purpose? Do you have information that the rest of us lack?

Dear Neptune,
I can not speak on Wayne's behalf,  neither do I know what further intentions he has with this forum.
I am fairly sure that there is more to follow but that is a question only he can answer.
Michel

Do you have the answer? Something to think about.
In this exchange we have a wanting party and a giving party

1..  Who is the wanting party and who is the giving party ?
2..  Who can set the rules of conduct ?,  The wanting party or the giving party ?
3..  Is it appropriate to insult the giving party if he doesn't hand over all unconditionally ?  How did it work for you in the past ?

I do not expect replies or comments.....

Quote from: Red_Sunset on September 20, 2012, 08:16:26 AM

The magic is with the input, only ~60% of verifiable energy was spent to get this output.  Where the remaining 40% is coming from is obviously from gravity. The whole process can be tangibly explained and observed,. It is understood what creates the loophole, but why or how mother nature allows this loophole is '??'
Michel

Yep. Gravity is the constant input energy nobody see because they are fixated that lifting up one side is the same as using up the downward fall of the other. Well, in this thing, what if it's not?

You know those tire pumps for bicycle tires? Imagine a pair connected together somehow with 2 large rocks on top. You let one come down. That's a 100 percent PE, now going KE in motion. Some portion, not all it is said,  is used to relift the other back up to 100 percent PE. However, because of the ZED's layering, the buoyancy and what not, and shuffling of pressures, it only takes you 60 percent of that PE as KE to get it there.


That's 40 percent now going to be stored in an accumulator, or otherwise going to be able to be used for work.


That's the only way this can work that I can see. Energy is not being 'created', it's being stored. Gravity is a -constant- acceleration, you don't use up one side then the other and it's gone, because once you lift it back, you got another 100 percent PE. But if you had a stored precharge to get started and extra left over each stroke...


If the 100 percent PE available on the one side can re-lift the other side using only 60 percent the travel or available force pressure from whatever travel is allowed....you now have 100 percent PE available on the other side because it's been reset, but still have 40 percent remaining on that side to do as you wish.


Gravity is the 'extra' energy. It is not a used up once, not available again thing, it's a constantly ever available energy source via acceleration. It is not being 'created' per se, it just a constant wind in a tunnel. If you lift a paddle blade on a lever back up in a windy tunnel into the wind, it gets blown back down again, metaphorically speaking. Well what if there are two tunnels and by leverage, this weird hydro-pnuematic jack, it is able to lift that other paddle back up, but not take all the travel it had [available] to do it?


The buoyant lift, if you shuffle it around, is same.


If this works, only way I see it working. No magic at all. Leverage and simple tricks made possible only because you are dealing with water and air, not the usuals.


What are usually hard wired parameters are literally made fluid.


rc

2 short questions:
- Density of the mass in the ZED, not found it ?

If efficiency well above 100%  for each ZED and told the excess of energy is used to power the second Zed, are we saying that 2 ZED together with a close to 100% efficiency when individually they are >> 100% (300% with 6 layers), probably not so my question is:
- How is the excess energy consumed, lamps, heaters, brakes,... ?

Please excuse the interuption:

My purpose with sharing is clear and stated - I am not here to argue with the interuptions - yet from time to time - direction is needed - to avert the misdirection of some.

First:
In an argument - you need at least two supportive statements and then a conclusion - and even if you have two right and valid statements - the conclusion may not be valid. Furthermore - the statements might not support eachother.

Sometimes the Facts - which should be true - may not be related - or misapplied to the conclusion.

When this is the case - it is not an argument but misapplied conjecture.

Conjecture on this forum is recognizable because it is always presented with opinion and emotion - to protects ones own understanding. It is not my postion here to change peoples opinions - just to present a method to learn and understand our Technology.

The trouble with conjecture - is it feeds itself - and the emotion interupts the ability to perceive that the argument is flawed. It sucks people into a pointless debate.

One or two of the people on this learning link are full of conjecture, and they try try to micro manage the topic to support their own conjecture.  I have them on Ignore, but can see they still take up much of your time.

Second:
The Creating Energy conjecture - has been projected here before:
If you have OverUnity - you must be claiming to "Create Energy" - bogus.

How do you properly define creating energy:

Is it true that if you have Net energy coming from a black box - you are creating energy - magic......

I bet Solar power really freaked out some people - we all know now that solar panels do not create energy. But they do convert energy - only about 20% of the available - some better.

So does a wind turbine, a Hydro system - river /dam, or even An airconditioner.

An air conditioner is the better example - being overunity - The BTU of the system is greater that the input of electricity - it is OverUnity unless you account for the energy exchange in the temperature differential of the outside air - which like the ZED uses gravity - you can not physically see the input.

Education and clarity - the temperature differential in an airconditioner can be accounted for - and has been - still it is a OU device - the input of energy from the temperature differential is not part of the internal operating cost. This is a clear examples of a OU device - not magic or energy creation - just simple physics - already accepted and understood.

I have stated - in reference to the Question that our system is Over Unity - defined by the input cost to the output of the system - but like the airconditioner needs to account for the temperature differential  - if you account for our unique use of energy from our unique "Mass discplacment" and the effect we capture from gravity - the system can be understood and calculated as well.

The Difference our system has over an airconditioner being - we have enough of a gain to provide our own input cost - and provide a NET.

Consuming Gravity Conjecture:

How do we convert gravity - without consuming the gravity, and causing people to float up into space.....om gosh...(is the train station still moving away?

First you have to understand Gravity as a flow - or a vortex acting upon known mass.
Does an impeller dragging in a river and spinning ..... cause the clouds to stop sending rain - or consume the water?

Perhaps the molecular structure of the mass is in direct relationship to the interuption of the flow of a gravitational the vortex - can't see it so I can only test the observable - be careful this is where error comes - when we make observation the LAW, and then use the LAW to discredit observation.
Neither the law nor the observation have a full understanding of the universe - that takes some certain faith to claim.

In real simple terms - in what we "observe in a known density" - is another way of saying our observable reaction to a known substance and the gravitational field.

The flow rate of gravity appears steady within our range of observation and work - things fall at the same rate - within reason, unless they are affected by resistance of another density - such as air - and that rate changes with the structure.

So we have a MASS of measurable and observable characteristics - and those relationships we assign based on our knowledge from our observations - and turn them into a LAW.

We have a pretty good set of physics on the books well explaining the effects of gravity, buoyancy, mass extra.

Now - Seamus  (more / 03), wants to claim a magical mass increase to account for the additional discplacments, he has made his claim very clearly - it is a religious claim - based on his faith in the LAW - not on what is possible - but on his limits
I do not take advantage of people - so I have to leave his bet alone.

The false conjecture that we Create Energy:

Any known Mass has a Energy value "We" associated with it, we assign to it.

Buoyancy is a perfect example and way to measure the effect of gravity on a mass - the numbers are very clear - repeatable - measurable - predictable.

Here is where the disconnect between conjectures like TK's and More/03's:

What is the total energy available from the Mass?
This is some what of a misleading question - a trick question - leads the observation - (nuclear energy is a seperate topic).

Think about this instead - does the (gravitational energy come from the mass) or is the mass effected by Gravity?
Changes your outlook - or ability to see clearly knowing the difference.
Mass does not control how much gravity is available in a given space - I make this claim from simple observation.

Look at this - a cubic inch of lead has a weight and volume - a cubic inch of water has another weight same volume - does the gravity in that space change because of the material - or is our observation and rules change based on the material.

Important Point - neither show the full potential of gravity - just the relationship to the "Train and station" as Red put it - what we can see.

Since the available gravity is greater than the "Mass of the displacement"  then potential energy is not being captured.
Density  - as we call it is like a different size impeller in a river of gravity- the dense one (heavy object) grabs more energy than the less dense one - but the flow rate is the same.

Who knows what the maximum density is - not me.

Our ZED Technology works between those two impellers - they have different density - and thus have a different potential - and we capture our energy by a third system which uses the differential between the two.
And we do it at each layer - one of the Diamonds in the ZED is the reuses of the same flow - or field of capture.
Reuse of the same Mass - as I have stated before in each additional layer.

Since physics has never had to answer the question of gravity being captured or used multiple times in the same space at the same time - in relationship to the potential of gravity within a mass - this is a new development.
(this is the question  - it should be argued - and deserves observation - Do not rely on hard held convictions and conjectures.)

Claims by others that we are CREATING ENERGY - is a good measure of those persons understanding of our system, or their motive. You can lead a horse to water .. the rest is up to the beast.

Creating the condition where one Mass can be reused - simultaneously - and thus capturing more of the available energy in the mass - from gravity - is one of the Diamonds to our system.
If you account for the reuse of Mass in each layer of the ZED - you will see where ALL the Energy is accounted for - and you will see that our system provides NET energy - using currently understood physics -because the input costs are reduced by the reuse of the Mass - having the cost of reusing it - reduced with each layer.

When you understand this well enough - you will also see / begin to understand that the Efficiency is increased by the addition of layers - by reducing the cost - even though pressure increases - its the discplacement value/ratio.

So, can two masses occupy the same space at the same time - NO, but you can capture the effect of gravity /multiple times from the same space - and same mass - YES - with our unique DESIGN.
Every layer reuses at least the POD, and each successive layer used the total mass before it.

TO All Replication Teams:
First Great Job So far!
To quicken your understanding - please account for the total displacement of the ZEDS in relationship to the lift - as you add layers - you will see the lift increase at a rate faster than the mass is increased - that alone should bring about a better understanding of our system.
In other words track pressure and volume to lift - and also track total discplacement to lift - eye popper!
Thanks to everyone who is trying to understand.
Like another posted - I am very impressed with you who are here to learn, helping each other, I do not post often - but the appreciation is pure.
I see great discussion and teamwork.

Wayne Travis