Quote from: Newton II on October 01, 2012, 01:25:39 AM

I think this discussion is taking a funny turn.    Topic of this thread is 'Probability of God'.   The question is whether God exists or not.  If you say NO,   then explain :


1)  What is matter?

2)  What is filed?

3)  How this universe came into existance?

4)  How brain works?   Is it just a chemical and electrical reaction or some sort of spirit present in the brain makes it self thinking?  if not can you convert a 
     computer into a self thinking brain with feelings and emotions?

5)  What is the purpose of this life?   Just take birth, earn money and die?

6)  Structure of brain in general is same for all human beings.   But why every one's thinking is different?   What makes a person good or bad?  Why some
     people are happy and some are suffering? 


Unless all the above questions are answered I have to believe that it is all God made.  Because no other explanation is available.  If science explains all the above things,  I would agree that God doesnot exist.

I am  not interested in religion.   I am a better thinker than my elders.  I can formulate my own religion.  Nobody can fool me or exploit me showing a dummy God. 

Vague arguments cannot solve any problem.

How in the world do you get from science not providing a full answer to something, to therefore god exists?  That is not how we reason.

This notwithstanding, science can either answer or suggest answers to most of those.  For example, we know what matter is made of, as far as atomic and subatomic particles.  But there are definitely layers there we do not know yet.   Thought and consciousness relate to neural connections in the brain.  Why do people think differently?  The same reason everyone looks slightly different.  There is variation among identical twins even, why do you expect two members of the same species to be molecularly identical?


You want purpose to life.  From an evolutionary standpoint, the purpose of life is to create more life.  If you want a philosophical answer, there is plenty of secular philosophy that may give you answers, but I suspect that beyond procreation, it comes down to helping your fellow man and enjoying yourself some along the way.  This is not a science answer, but neither does it require god.


Look, your thinking is all wrong.  This is what early man thought.  "Until you explain rain, until you explain tides, until you explain lightning, until you explain how the Sun works, I am just going to believe that it is God doing it."  That line of thinking was wrong then and it is wrong now.  The only difference is now there are fewer things we do not know.

There are so many who say "if there is no God, what is the meaning and purpose of life?"

Why does there have to be a meaning or purpose? These are are human concepts, not universal law.

I propose that the wrong question is often being asked.

Instead, perhaps we should ask each of ourselves, "what meaning and purpose will I give to my life?"

Cheers

Quote from: Newton II on October 01, 2012, 01:25:39 AM

I think this discussion is taking a funny turn.    Topic of this thread is 'Probability of God'.   The question is whether God exists or not.  If you say NO,   then explain :


1)  What is matter?

2)  What is filed?

3)  How this universe came into existance?

4)  How brain works?   Is it just a chemical and electrical reaction or some sort of spirit present in the brain makes it self thinking?  if not can you convert a 
     computer into a self thinking brain with feelings and emotions?

5)  What is the purpose of this life?   Just take birth, earn money and die?

6)  Structure of brain in general is same for all human beings.   But why every one's thinking is different?   What makes a person good or bad?  Why some
     people are happy and some are suffering? 


Unless all the above questions are answered I have to believe that it is all God made.  Because no other explanation is available.  If science explains all the above things,  I would agree that God doesnot exist.

Hmmm.

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you haven't read my other posts and that is the reason for your response.

1/ If God exists he must be consistent. An inconsistent God is not one I could believe in, Perhaps you can.
2/ How do his followers know he exists.
   a/ they read stuff in a book written by man but claimed to be authored by God
   b/ they are told by their elders(church)/preacher/influencers
3/ How does a follower know what they read or are told is correct?
   a/ they reconcile what they are told and what they read by their internal god speaking to them
4/ If God exists and is consistent then his followers should be consistent because of the consistency of their inner voice.
5/ They are inconsistent. I was inconsistent when I was a christian.

Therefore by simple deductive logic. If Gods followers are inconsistent, then their internal god is inconsistent and is not really god speaking to them but their own emotive thoughts.
Therefore they cannot provide proof that what they are told and what they read is in fact truth. Then by extension what they are told and what they read is not from God but from men only.

Therefore God did not author the bible or koran or any other "word of god" book
Therefore God does not exist.

Now to your points oft quoted as some form proof of God.

This type of god that you subscribe to is often called the God Of the Gaps.

As suggested by eatenbyagrue not knowing something does not automatically mean you need a God to fill in the gaps of your knowledge. It simply means you have not learnt. Casting your own failure as proof of God, is not proof of God at all but only proof of your own (and humanities) lack of understanding.


1/ Matter is another form of energy. Exactly how it is instantiated is beyond me.
2/ Filed is when you store something in a filing cabinet
3/ It went Bang
4/ The brain is a chemical and electrical wonder. I had a dog, he was very intelligent (for a dog) are you suggesting he also had a spirit? I do miss him greatly
5/ There is no meaning. Meaning is a human construct like inches or years.
6/ You are sadly mistaken The structure of the brain is entirely unique from one creature to the next. From its very beginning the brain creates connections which are the result of genetics and environment. Every person is absolutely unique. But not just the brain either, all of us are unique in every aspect. That's why I run like shite but can program better than most athletes.

This last quote by you:

QuoteI am not interested in religion.   I am a better thinker than my elders.  I can formulate my own religion.  Nobody can fool me or exploit me showing a dummy God.

By elders I meant church elders, I think you just mean older, but either way its an arrogant thing to say. If you are the bearer of all knowledge then yes you could create your own religion. Of course you would expect everyone to call you god.

But if that's the case I am not sure why you asked the questions you did? As god you must surely know the answer.

Completely unique !
Chris don't take my comments the wrong way ,A lot of what you fellows say makes complete sense .
Are you happy ?
  Who makes your rules to live by? Are you socialist? [you trust that [atheist Gov't]?].
  To me personally "the probability of God" has a lot to do with the fact that we are all still here...knowing what we do about our nature ,and knowing we have had the ability to annihilate the planet for 70 odd years,or poison on almost every imaginable level chem warfare genetics etc etc .
But we're still here ,to my way of thinking VERY high probability of someone else preventing that .
I asked your friends what they believe in.
Where on earth can you point and say "THIS" see this right here??? !!
Thats it ...that works......!!
otherwise it starts to sound like La La Land.......
thx
Chet

 

Quote from: CuriousChris on October 01, 2012, 05:28:46 AM


1/ If God exists he must be consistent. An inconsistent God is not one I could believe in, Perhaps you can.
2/ How do his followers know he exists.
   a/ they read stuff in a book written by man but claimed to be authored by God
   b/ they are told by their elders(church)/preacher/influencers
3/ How does a follower know what they read or are told is correct?
   a/ they reconcile what they are told and what they read by their internal god speaking to them
4/ If God exists and is consistent then his followers should be consistent because of the consistency of their inner voice.
5/ They are inconsistent. I was inconsistent when I was a christian.

All these things  show the  inability of a person to realize God and it need not   necessarily  mean that God does not exist.     Buddha left  his crown, his wife and son, went  to  forest, sat under  a tree,  meditated and realized God.    Can you do that?   Unless  you follow his path  and cross verify,  you cannot say that he is wrong.

Quote from: CuriousChris on October 01, 2012, 05:28:46 AM

1/ Matter is another form of energy. Exactly how it is instantiated is beyond me.
2/ Filed is when you store something in a filing cabinet
3/ It went Bang
4/ The brain is a chemical and electrical wonder. I had a dog, he was very intelligent (for a dog) are you suggesting he also had a spirit? I do miss him greatly
5/ There is no meaning. Meaning is a human construct like inches or years.
6/ You are sadly mistaken The structure of the brain is entirely unique from one creature to the next. From its very beginning the brain creates connections which are the result of genetics and environment. Every person is absolutely unique. But not just the brain either, all of us are unique in every aspect. That's why I run like shite but can program better than most athletes.

1), 2), 3)
You know very well that  these are only vague answers  and do not completely explain the nature of the universe.    Even a great scientist like Einstein had failed to explain the complete nature of matter and field.   We cannot say that Einstein was not a learned person and I cannot believe that ‘CC’ is more ‘learned’  than Einstein.   Only  ‘half learned’   people with ‘half baked’  knowledge come to immediate conclusion.    A genuine person will not come to conclusion unless he makes sure.

4)  All animals have the spirit.      I weigh 75Kgs.     I can stand firmly on ground.   If you  purchase  75Kgs  of  flesh,  fix bones and other  things on it and cover it with a thin polythene sheet  like skin,  will it stand firmly on ground?   Even four legged animals like  dog, cow, elephant etc.,   which stand firmly  on ground when alive,  fall on to the ground  when they die.   Can you make a dead body of a human or  four legged animals to stand firmly on ground?    Even if  you adjust the center of gravity and  make them to stand on ground,  a slight push is enough to make them fall again.   It shows a clear cut difference between the living and dead  and also implies that a sort of living force  or spirit is required to keep the body functioning.    Without spirit body cannot function.  (IT IS IMPOSSIBLE)

5)  The basic purpose of life is evolution of the spirit.    The body is a cluster of different cells  which is just a waste.    You can remove few stem cells  from the body and make thousands of such    bodies by cloning.   From  one ‘CC’  we can make thousands of ‘CC’s.    You have to make  use of the body  for evolution of the spirit  to  go  to a higher place in the heaven  when you leave this earth.   A  person without  spiritual attachment  is more or less like an animal  and  his life itself is a waste.

6)  I said the ‘general structure’  of  brain of all humans  is the same.    A doctor prescribes medicine based on general structure of the body.    Can a doctor study  the body and brain structure  of all 4000 million people on this earth to prescribe  medicine based on their  ‘unique’  body and brain structure?

Quote from: CuriousChris on October 01, 2012, 05:28:46 AM

By elders I meant church elders, I think you just mean older, but either way its an arrogant thing to say. If you are the bearer of all knowledge then yes you could create your own religion. Of course you would expect everyone to call you god.

But if that's the case I am not sure why you asked the questions you did? As god you must surely know the answer.

Based on my knowledge I  can formulate my own religion  only for myself  to live happily and evolve myself  and not  for others.     I am not that much arrogant  to call myself God.