Quote from: eatenbyagrue on October 10, 2012, 10:07:49 AM

Although I submit you need to work on your subtlety if you want to elevate to the higher echelons of trolling.

not interested...

 
Does "Pottymouth" strengthen the arguement?
I forget .......?

Anyone??
The rules of engagement between adults with strong points of view??

Something about Hollering ...swaring  ....punching......biting...
as it applies to the "strength of an arguement"

Gotta double check that one in my "purging Logical fallacy" rules  book.
Thx
Chet

HHMMmmmm
Looks like it stopped raining ...
back to work...

I think an impasse has been reached, so I am out.  You theists are now using dogma and Bible verses as evidence, and there is no way to go from there, if that is what you honestly accept as proof for your belief system.


Bruce, I hope you someday see reason.  See you, guys.

Why this topic matters to me

Truthfully ,it is a big problem for more than the obvious reasons.

I have grown to use "faith"[a persons professed faith] as an initial tool  for evaluating  a  person at the ground floor.
Their Core beliefs should be identifiable in their "church/religious belief".

This is why I ask so many questions here about Beliefs that I don't understand or are outside my Frame of reference.

When you have to trust a stranger ,you try to get as much info as fast as possible to evaluate the "risk" to yourself and others .
[others here being "fellow experimenters"]

When I speak to almost any person of Faith I can usually count on their
"commitment to doing the right thing" or atleast Intent to do so.

When I speak to men with no clear definable belief system,,the process becomes much more involved.

When your life or the life of others can depend on your Decisions.
Trust becomes Oh so important.

Of course ,the flaws in this method can start to show themselves pretty quickly,where a persons claimed Core beliefs don't jive with how they act [the Tito effect].

Plus I have no info on the followers Of  FSM [pasta entities]

We have  a system of forming relationships One person at a time [very small trusted groups] very slowly.

Open source is the ultimate goal for all here ,how to get there safely,and competently [no sneaky creeps just looking to steal info and run to the patent office ]
during a vetting process can be greatly expedited by working with a larger
trusted group.

how to establish a method for accomplishing this?

I don't like secret handshake clubs, I absolutely love Open Source.... not to be denied By any sect,politics, religion, denomination ,organization or institution ,just finding men of like mind willing to be completely Selfless....

You want Change ,Be that change.

  Thats why I stuck it out here ..........
Later
Thx
Chet

Quote from: ramset on October 09, 2012, 08:42:19 PM
Gwandau
Thank you for your responce ,as well as the respectful way you carry yourself.

I appreciate your honesty ,and recognize your desire to have men enjoy what you have found to be "aware".

I myself Have struggled with understanding,I personally Fear this search you embarked on ,and I suppose I cannot explain it ,except to say ,I would fear for my sanity.

I have seen men Go to places on these "searches" and never come back .And the place they end up is not as you describe ,it is torment.

I was free'd of this torment by My complete surrender of my own will,and an agreement I made to serve. it has not been easy, a lot of the things some of you fellows are saying have troubled me for quite some time .

So I personally walk by Faith With the knowledge that where I came from can not compare with where I am now.
And I help others get free from their torment.
One day at a time asking questions and Paying attention..........

I like you Gwandau ,you have Character and are a very smart and genuine man with good sincere intentions.

I think you will find It won't be so bad sharing the planet with me!

Thx
Chet
Ps some people here don't care about the Tormented or the suffering,they think its not their problem..........

Chet,

Thank you for your kind response, and I certainly enjoy sharing this planet with anyone dedicated to love peace and understanding, no matter what point of view.

I think it is all about letting everyone try his own road without imposing our own maps. To me that is simple respect, and also the only way to bridge true communication. The more unconditionally we execute defence of our own point of view, the loser is the foundation upon which we stand. The more eager the proselyte, the more hidden doubts deep within.

Your open minded and humble approach too things quite alien to your own way of experiencing reality tells me you are a man with a genuine and hard owned spiritual experience. You also seem to have the ability to differ between a personal truth and a scientific truth, two totally different areas of knowledge, which unfortunately have been subject to great confusion in this thread.

There is absolutely no way to compare values of these two altogether totally different belief systems.

As a scientist I am fully aware of the relative aspect of all observed scientific truths, there is not one single permanent physical truth, everything is observations in relation to other observations. But these non permanent truths are agreed upon by the scientific methods and thereafter accepted as so called facts, at least until revised. As you know this is how science works.

A personal truth is just as relative as a scientific truth but on an entirely different level, and the two levels are just that: two levels. The never meet, yet they exist in the same paradigm.

What is fundamentally wrong with this topic is the ambition to subject a non physical phenomenon to the scientific methodology.

And all of us seem to have fallen into this trap, believers as well as non believers.

A personal truth like a spiritual experience have no place in the scientific arena, and it is the very moment such an experience are dogmatized into shallow sci fi stories of the past that they are becoming prey to the scientific blood hound.

As far as I am concerned, a spiritual experience is something you keep for yourself inside your heart, a power charge bigger than life, keeping you surfing on the right side of the wave so to speak.

Anybody too eager to share his belief alerts a warning lamp inside me, and anyone starting to cite second or third hand stories as the "OnlyTruth" alerts a loud howling siren. I have come to understand that such people often have a quite shallow fundament behind their belief, thus obviously lacking a deep and hard owned experience behind their approach.


I am not sure everybody will understand this, and the fault is of cource mine being unable to convey this elucidating enough, but what I am trying to say is that on the scientific level is our very intimidated and emotionally upset WilbyInebriated fully correct. You cannot prove anything non physical with physical methodology.

On the other hand, the scientific method is not aimed at the level of the consciousness phenomenon, where the spiritual experiences reside, thus it will be totally impossible to apply the scientific method in this area.

Mind is physical and will be mapped and connected electronically in a near future. The senses and their interfaces are fully within the science domain.

But pure consciousness is a non physical  and will always be outside the reach of science.

Gwandau