Chris
Did you ever doubt we would find this secret?[immortality]
Once we started Cloning and such   ,cracking the DNA code or at least
The Glare from the tip of the iceberg [havent yet gotten to the Tip].

To figure out Why the design did not allow for perfect rebuild/replication
on a machine that is completely devoted to self repair and preservation
at almost every possible level [the living machines].


They say 95% Of DNA is not understood,We find out recently {Epigenetics}
we can Evolve almost instantly [compared to previous views].
What would be the advantage to the machine there??
and one can only begin to imagine what the rest of the DNA can do ,or how
linear this process ultimately is [towards what goal].

"I" am  just Curious here,
You are one of the fellows that see no design whatsoever,or  as "W" has said You would  except the possibility?Or should I say
Probability?

Thx
Chet
PS
A side note
The secrets thing [ultimately there will be no secrets]
Bruce did post a scripture about that
just an observation..........

Let's adress the probability of a god, without being bound to be either religious or an atheist.
There actually is another possibly much more probable alternative.

You see, a so called intelligent design behind the dynamics of our universe does not neccessarily need a god to exist.

Therefore I would like to stress the important difference between the probability of an indifferent Intent behind the existence and structure of our universe and the probability of the narrow minded traditional concept of a god.

The very basic quality of such an Intent would not allow for any religion to develop, it would just among many other things allow us to understand the strange pattern behind matter evolving into being self conscious.

I don't believe anything, this is just a suggestion seemingly more plausible than both religion and atheism, so please restrain yourself from going into agressive mode here, I'm just extrapolating a probability of an indifferent intelligence being the body of our very universe itself, a concept that as far as I am concerned would make a lot more sense than all those self centered and kindergarten level antropocentric religions imposed upon the human sheep, as well as the dimensional colorlessness and dryness of puritan atheism.

Imagine a totally unpersonal Intent that permeates our universe as a omnipresent program being responsible for executing the known dynamics of the physical structure of universe, as well as the structure behind the metaphysical dynamics such as consciousness.


Imagine our universe as an extremely complex organism with a life cycle starting with the big bang and ending when it all retracts back to the singularity. In such a scenario each big bang is the start of a new cycle, based upon the progress of consciousness made in the previous cycle.


Also, in such a scenario the evolvement and level of consciousness as well as the evolvement and multiplicity of living organisms are the very memory code that will be harvested by universe itself when completing its life circle. This way universe itself will evolve into something new and improved for each and everytime it completes its life cycle.

And if our universe is a relativistic one, everything is bound to repeat itself endlessly in any direction, just like the dynamics that makes a galaxy spiralling are the same dynamics influencing similar patterns on our earth.


This way the evolving dynamics of the big bang cycles repeats itself on all levels in each cycle, making each living organism going through a repeatable cycle of birth and rebirth, gaining improvements of both the physical character as a species as well as an increased level of consciousness of the individual for each new life cycle.

Additionally, seen from this perspective of  Intent, the revolving dynamics behind the big bang cycles of our universe are mere reverbrations of next level of Intent, creating a infinite number elevated levels of Intent behind any level of Intent.
An infinite number of increasing levels of Intents or levels of Coinsciousness, making human consciousness a fractal of a much bigger picture, a never ending infinitely big picture painted by no one, or everyone.


This is as far as I am concerned a fully probable alternative to both rigid atheism as well as rigid religion, both with their obviously lose ends, atheism being blindfolded against nonphysical phenomenons and the religious backing up their faith on man made old scriptures and the inner dialogue phenomenon.


Now I want to emphasize once again that the above presented alternative is not something I neccessarily believe, this is just an example of a fully logical structure behind our universe, totally leaving out any need for a personal god as well as the crass and dry atheistic outlook, and at the same time avoiding the lose ends of the two.


Gwandau

Quote from: lumen on October 16, 2012, 01:50:46 AM
So there you have it! God makes it easier to die when you think your going some place after your dead. It also makes it easier to kill from the same logic.

I wonder if my dog will live after death, or that deer I killed with the car, or that rabbit! I seem to think that they are just dead and gone forever like a corn plant or any other living thing.
You simply believe in God because you feel special or better than the other animals, but what do they think?

You need to feel like there is something after death because you can't face the fact that you will simply be gone forever and while you stand around believing there is something after death you are the first to condemn those that work to alter DNA in hopes to understand how to fix the problem of death.

Not all things die, some creatures are eternal and even our DNA can support eternal life (unless killed by something).
So I don't care about those who choose to believe in God and I respect their right to do so, but don't push your moral beliefs on others when they work to modify DNA for eternal life.
Look up "telomeres" and see for yourself.

Animals have not spirits.  Sorry to all of those Indians, hindu's etc, that worship such things.  Man is made in the image and likeness of God.  You are a spirit, with a Soul (personality, mind, will, emotions) that lives in a body.

Your body is our "earth" suit.  Just like an astronaut needs a "space" suit to operate in the confines of space, so likewise, we too need "earth" suits to operate in the confines or "realm" of earthly things.  But just like the "space" suit is not the astronaut, but simply a housing, so too, are these bodies of flesh a housing for the REAL you.  Your spirit/soul.  That IS the real you and is Eternal.  And the Lord promises a ressurection both of the just, and of the unjust.  Of the righteous and of the unrighteous.  For the books will be opened and whosevers name is not found in the Lambs book of life shall be cast ALIVE into the lake of fire.  But the GOOD NEWS is that you can have eternal life, by confessing Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour of your life.

We will ALL live eternally, it is only a question of WHERE...

Walking with Christ,

Bruce

Quote from: Bruce_TPU on October 17, 2012, 02:43:35 PM
Animals have not spirits.  Sorry to all of those Indians, hindu's etc, that worship such things.  Man is made in the image and likeness of God.  You are a spirit, with a Soul (personality, mind, will, emotions) that lives in a body.

Your body is our "earth" suit.  Just like an astronaut needs a "space" suit to operate in the confines of space, so likewise, we too need "earth" suits to operate in the confines or "realm" of earthly things.  But just like the "space" suit is not the astronaut, but simply a housing, so too, are these bodies of flesh a housing for the REAL you.  Your spirit/soul.  That IS the real you and is Eternal.  And the Lord promises a ressurection both of the just, and of the unjust.  Of the righteous and of the unrighteous.  For the books will be opened and whosevers name is not found in the Lambs book of life shall be cast ALIVE into the lake of fire.  But the GOOD NEWS is that you can have eternal life, by confessing Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour of your life.

We will ALL live eternally, it is only a question of WHERE...

Walking with Christ,

Bruce

"Animals have not spirits."   Who are you to be so sure?  Can you really observe the spirit in a living being, and therefore with selfgained knowledge being able to see the lack of a soul in an animal?  Or are you just a copy cat, repeating the old scripts?

"Man is made in the image and likeness of God."  Repetition again.


"You are a spirit, with a Soul (personality, mind, will, emotions) that lives in a body."  Are you suggesting that the definition of "soul" is "personality, mind, will, emotions" That is not correct even in the religious context. Actually, there is no definition of the "soul" since this is a totally abstract concept without anything backing it up.

Since you seem to be a sincere and honest person with only good intents i feel obliged to inform you that it is very rude and bad behaviour to impose ones ideas as being unquestioned truths. This is per definition fanatic behaviour and is a clear example of very low social competence.

The stale air around a person rigidly fixed in a dead end mindset, for ever closed to any changes or progress in understanding, makes two way communication impossible . For such a person the monologue is the only communication possible. A pity.

Open yourself up for the greatness of the unspoken mystery around you, you unfortunately seem to be trapped within the confines of the Christian mythology, which resides not in real life but in your own intellect.

Take the good things with you that you have learned by being a Christian and get out of that prison. Everything essential said by Jesus consist of a few important lines that are very wise, the rest is only a lot of conditioning made by entirely other people far from the original state of mind of Jesus.

It is very strange that you cannot see the difference between the wisdom of Jesus and all the other crap. You see, this is the trap you Christians have fallen into, you have understood his wisdom and then automatically you buy all the other bullshit that unfortunately imprison you within a non enlightened script writers delusions.

Being a prisoner of the intellect is the worst confinement there is. The one who brags about his big intellect is like a person who brags about his big prison cell.

Dare take a step outside into the freedom of mind, your virtues and wisdom and connection to your inner self won't leave you.
Just let go of all intellectual programming and just feel the fresh air and the vastness of open possibilities all around you.

You have nothing to lose but your head.

Gwandau

Bruce,
I can see that line of thinking in the future, as the sun is expanding and we are all sitting here just waiting for God to save us, but it never happens and the entire human race is extinct, as if we never existed!

Your last thought of ...... well it's too late, no more thoughts from anyone now or forever on! If you would have just jumped into the volcano sooner, maybe things could have been different.

The scripture actually says "God gave man the breath of life, and man became a living soul". This is just way different than thinking you have a soul!
I have the feeling that reason intelligence has flourished on earth is related more the the magnetic field we propagate in, forming neuro pathways in controlled order.