Quote from: DiscerningDave on October 25, 2012, 08:52:06 AM
Why don't you tell us what facts you base your conclusion on that it will not stop?  The burden of proof is on those who say it will work.
Others here, such as webby1, are willing to try to answer questions to help those of us that have doubts.  Why aren't you?
So, until someone can explain to me how this machine could possibly keep running on its own, with no external input, my position is that Wayne is wrong (intentionally deceptive or not, I don't know), and you are defending the indefensible (in a most annoying fashion). 

This has all been done before, please refer to previous postings by Wayne and myself
I would like to list them all here but unfortunately there are just too many to list.

QuoteAnd the second half of your rant was in reply to someone else's comment.  You could have indicated that.

My apologies, that was my mixup !

Quote from: webby1 on October 25, 2012, 08:23:26 AM
Not Red, but if I may.

The answers have been provided, we have been told the values that are needed for the simple 3 riser system, we have been told its dimensions, its operating pressures its lift distance and its lift capacity in weight and the volume of input fluid.

I do believe these are what have been asked for and they were provided,, not all on one page, granted, but they have been given and they may have been ignored.

The part that is hard for some to get there mindset around, is that when lift is done the system can still return the fluid UNDER PRESSURE.  In a normal hydraulic system when the "lift" is done and you remove the source of pressure there is nothing left within the cylinder but in the ZED that is not the case, that is what that precharge thing is all about, well that and bringing the ability to lift up to a higher value, but any way. 

What all this means is that you can recover some of the input to re-use in the next cycle of the other ZED, take care of that precharge part and maybe more thus reducing the cost you must pay to stroke.

webby1
I have a lot of respect for the work you have done on this thread and there was a time in your
early part of the thread that I got excited that we had finally after all these years found a genuine
overunity device especially when the inventor himself awarded you $2000 for getting it right.

Then the problems started and the debates about accurate measurements, which could have been solved
by producing a self-running model, at this stage there has been doubt cast on your results and your
ability to measure correctly since we have another member who has shown underunity.
http://www.overunity.com/10596/hydro-differential-pressure-exchange-over-unity-system/msg340960/#msg340960
Now I'm not saying you are wrong or he is wrong what I'm saying is that it is not accurate evidence,
Wayne has avoided producing measurements that are accurate enough to make an accurate assessment of performance.
He has also broken his word a number of times when he said the verification team would be visiting.

I have not completely given up hope that this device might produce Overunity,
but nowhere in this thread so far has that been proven beyond reasonable doubt.

Quote from: TinselKoala on October 25, 2012, 12:41:32 AM
I especially like the horizontal, double ended ram on the top of each Zed. See how it pumps water back and forth.... from either side of THE SAME OUTER ANNULAR CHAMBER........ ??

Can Red_Sunset explain the functioning of these rams and the pumping that they do?

I'll give this one a go.  I saw this and thought, "Brilliant!"

Please ignore all the internal risers and pod.  Consider only the Outer Riser as a floatation device:  A cylinder shaped float that is inside the main tank.  In this case the more water in the Outer Annular Chamber, the more buoyant force the (restrained) Outer Riser will have.  So as the horizontal, double ended ram that is mentioned is pumping water into the Outer Annular Chamber it is helping to increase the lift force.  And it is also REDUCING the weight of the Outer Riser, or "preload" at the same time!  This is because the water that is being pumped into the Outer Annular Chamber originated from inside the rams that were therefore a weight on top of the Outer Riser.

As the ram pumps water into the Outer Annular Chamber it raises the lift force of the Outer Riser due to buoyancy and reduces the weight of the Outer Riser (reduces the weight of the ram pump assy on top of the Outer Riser).  Likewise, as the ram pumps water out of the Outer Annular Chamber it lowers the lift force of the Outer Riser due to buoyancy and increases the weight of the Outer Riser (increase the weight of the ram pump assy on top of the Outer Riser).

The horizontal ram pump improvement causes a transfer of water mass that changes the weight of the "preload" on the Pod/Riser system at the same time as it changes the buoyancy of the Outer Riser.  Nice improvement, at least in concept form.  I'd like to know exactly how much of an improvement can be achieved this way.

M.

Take a large jar of water. This represents the outer annular chamber. Take a plastic cup, drop a lead weight into the bottom of it, and fill it halfway with water and float it in the jar of water. This represents the riser, with its own weight and the weight of the water inside the cup. Mark the "head" on the outside of the outer jar.

Now take an aliquot of water OUT of the outer annular chamber and put it INTO the floating cup. This corresponds to the horizontal ram removing some water from the outer annular ringwall and holding it on top of the riser assembly, removing the buoyancy and adding the weight of this water to the total riser weight, just as you have described.

Now look again at the "head" on the outside of the outer jar.

Quote from: TinselKoala on October 25, 2012, 10:36:37 AM
Now look again at the "head" on the outside of the outer jar.

Now take a look at the height of the plastic cup.