Quote from: powercat on October 25, 2012, 09:44:32 AM
webby1
I have a lot of respect for the work you have done on this thread and there was a time in your
early part of the thread that I got excited that we had finally after all these years found a genuine
overunity device especially when the inventor himself awarded you $2000 for getting it right.

Then the problems started and the debates about accurate measurements, which could have been solved
by producing a self-running model, at this stage there has been doubt cast on your results and your
ability to measure correctly since we have a another member who has shown underunity.
http://www.overunity.com/10596/hydro-differential-pressure-exchange-over-unity-system/msg340960/#msg340960
Now I'm not saying you are wrong or he is wrong what I'm saying is that it is not accurate evidence,
Wayne has had avoided producing measurements that are accurate enough,
to make an accurate assessment of performance.
He has also broken his word a number of times when he said the verification team would be visiting.

I have not completely given up hope that this device might produce Overunity,
but nowhere in this thread so far has that been proven beyond reasonable doubt.

There it is. That is the problem with building a replication not according to Wayne's specification and reporting on it. It is misleading to people who have not read and understood all the related post.


Please see #2696, #2697, and #2708 pages 180 and 181. 2696 explains the issue with the build and in 2697 M. explains why he build it that way.


M. had a pod and 2 riser version. I only have a system rise calculator for a pod and 3 riser version. In 2708 it shows that a 3 riser built according to M. specification (Pic 1) fails to maintain full force for a .75 lift as it starts with 4.75 and ends with 1.85. Pic 2 shows the results from a replication built to Wayne's specifications and it starts with a lift force of 15.05 and ends with a lift force of 15.12.


My system rise calculator is very complex, not easy to change, and I am working on other more important spreadsheet now. So I do not have time to make a pod and 2 riser version.


Regards, Larry

Quote from: mrwayne on September 20, 2012, 11:42:32 AM
...
Second:
The Creating Energy conjecture - has been projected here before:
If you have OverUnity - you must be claiming to "Create Energy" - bogus.

How do you properly define creating energy:

Is it true that if you have Net energy coming from a black box - you are creating energy - magic......

I bet Solar power really freaked out some people - we all know now that solar panels do not create energy. But they do convert energy - only about 20% of the available - some better.

So does a wind turbine, a Hydro system - river /dam, or even An airconditioner.

An air conditioner is the better example - being overunity - The BTU of the system is greater that the input of electricity - it is OverUnity unless you account for the energy exchange in the temperature differential of the outside air - which like the ZED uses gravity - you can not physically see the input.

Education and clarity - the temperature differential in an airconditioner can be accounted for - and has been - still it is a OU device - the input of energy from the temperature differential is not part of the internal operating cost. This is a clear examples of a OU device - not magic or energy creation - just simple physics - already accepted and understood.
...
Wayne Travis

RSS...

Thank you for pointing this post out.
Please answer the following questions:

Wayne claims that the ZED does not create energy, correct?

Do you agree?

Wayne also states that an airconditioner is OU, correct?

Do you agree?

Thanks in advance for your reply

- correcaminos

beep beep

Quote from: mondrasek on October 25, 2012, 10:46:34 AM

Now take a look at the height of the plastic cup.

Of course the cup rides lower in the water. But the water level outside is unchanged. I went ahead and inverted the cup to make it correspond more to a Zed riser and performed some experiments. The experiments and your comments made me think a lot more about these horizontal rams and what they are really doing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68p0EX4IHSk

I've done some further experiments after making this video and reading your comments, and I'm no longer quite so dismissive of these horizontal rams.
The horizontal rams add and subtract effective weight from the riser assembly. This weight is coming from the outer water volume, though. I can see how this is a clever way to make the riser into a "Cartesian Diver" by varying its effective weight without varying its effective volume (the reverse of how the real CD works) and pushing the overall buoyancy back and forth around the neutral point. But it takes work to move that water, just as in the traditional CD it takes work (external pressure change) to change its effective volume to push the buoyancy around.
My experiments have shown that the horizontal rams aren't totally ineffective as I at first thought. In fact they  might even be driving the whole system. However they don't work by affecting some "head" in the surrounding water level, and at least over the small height range of my experimental apparatus the pressure of the air and its volume trapped inside the riser doesn't change much if any either.

In the animation you can clearly see depicted all the springy effects that turn the system into a fancy automatic bollard.  It is likely that the entire riser system is pre-charged to be neutrally buoyant, and all it takes is the small change in effective weight caused by these horizontal pistons filling and emptying their reservoir chambers, to make the riser/pod assembly rise and sink. Just as in a true Cartesian diver, the small change in effective _volume_ at the same weight causes a change in buoyancy that drives the diver higher or lower in the water until again, volume displacement and effective weight are the same and neutral buoyancy is reestablished.

In the animation each Zed has a stack of three vertical cylinders on top. The middle one of these is cross-connected to the one on the other side. Both are the same size and aren't connected to anything else that I can see. What do these cylinders do?
The top cylinders of these stacks drive, by pressure and suction, the horizontal weight-changing rams.
So it appears that the middle cylinders are driving nothing-- just each other in a closed loop of equal volumes. Is this just another minor part of the weight-shift system that shifts the weight of the cylinder full of hydraulic fluid from one side to the other?
The top cylinders are driving the horizontal rams. So that leaves the bottom, larger cylinders of these stacks. All the pistons of these cylinders are connected and are driving/driven by the rising and lowering of the floating assembly, and the larger cylinders are connected through some unclear valvulation to some black boxes.

Can anyone explain the middle cylinders of the vertical stacks, and what the valves and black boxes do with respect to the larger, lowest of the three cylinders of the vertical stacks? And is this system driving the motion, or being driven by it, or both at different times? It is clearly shifting the weight of the hydraulic fluid from one side to the other, acting through the coaxial pistons, in synch with the water weight changes within each side, but is it doing anything else? It's not clear to me what's going on here, because of the valves and black boxes.

webby1 LarryC
Both your efforts are fantastic unfortunately it has all been very debatable and we have seen
from mondrasek a negative result from his build so nothing is a given.

I would love to be in a position where I could believe that a self-running device can be built
as I have a workshop space available to me to make one,
so far I'm not convinced (I'm not the only one) and the more Wayne keeps delaying
the verification team the more I feel a self-runner is not possible.

I hope this situation will change either somebody here produces a self-runner
or a link is posted to one, and let's pray that the details of that self-runner
are available for all to replicate.

I have red all of Wayne's posts and he has never given enough information to make a self-runner,
if he had done then where is it, he even says himself he is keeping information back for commercial reasons.

At least Wayne appears to have recovered the lack of information by posting an animation of his device
on his website we can only hope that he will be releasing more information.