Webby said,

QuoteTK, yes indeed the interesting space stuff does prove a bunch of things,, oh wait it does not prove anything it only states that the understood model for what we *use* the models for, works VERY well.

Oh...wait.... the interesting space stuff does INDEED prove some things. It proves that effects like those Mister Wayne and Red Sunset depend on in their "explanations" do not actually occur in well-measured systems. For if they did, they would have shown up as anomalous thrusts that needed to be accounted for or corrected, without being understood.
Or do you think that the only place in the Universe where gravity is non-conservative and actually "flows" is in southern Oklahoma?


If gravity is a "flow" like the flow of a river or wind, and you are extracting energy from gravity to power a system, shouldn't you see a reduced gravity, over or under your extraction mechanism? And, if energy isn't being "created", shouldn't this decrease in gravity correspond exactly to the increase in energy, potential or kinetic, that you are extracting? The ZED machine and the effect it allegedly depends upon are logically inconsistent with the real world of facts and how it behaves.

QuoteReally what I would like the conversation to focus on is the WHOLE system, including the sub-system that is at work inside the main system, that small part that is used without being used up.

Actually it's a large part: it's the stored energy in the precharge, that is acting like the spring of the automatic bollard. It's a complicated spring, made up of several segments, with dampers -- compare the construction of the Zed to a dashpot, for example.  The precharge of buoyancy and pressure make up a major portion of what is actually moving the riser assembly, and the action of the horizontal rams and other parts work by using a small input _force_ to change the effective density of the moving riser assembly, turning it into a Cartesian Diver that rises or sinks because it is being cycled very slightly around its neutral buoyancy point.  All that is made clear by the animation.
The problem I see is that there isn't any way to get work out of this system. Everything in the animation either balances like an equally weighted see-saw, or is lossy (pushing fluid through narrow pipes and inter-wall channels is very lossy).
Now, especially with Mond's latest "weird" or notso weird results, I think that it is entirely possible that this system could "rock" back and forth for some good while, like an equally balanced see-saw, slowly, and like the see-saw _squeaking_ at the fulcrum, could have some energy tapped off of it for some time. Like you can do with a flywheel: "precharge" by spinning it up, remove all power, let it spin for a while, and then drive a small fan with a pulley-belt arrangement. Until it mysteriously stops running, and you have to precharge it again.

Quote from: TinselKoala on October 28, 2012, 12:25:50 PM
Why? All you have to do is add another layer and you'll have your overunity results, improved vastly from your earlier 40 percent. Right?

I would hope so!

Unfortunately there are some "real world" problems with adding another layer.  Due to the material source that was selected the best choice would be to make another smaller Pod and convert the existing one into a Riser.  So another inner annuli thingy.  But due to the small size of the retainer walls and the way they were attached to the base, everything was constructed from the inside to the outside.  This was a necessity in order to attach and check the seals of those walls to the base (while trying to maintain some sort of concentricity).  So adding another retainer wall to the inside would be all but impossible.  At least from what I can think of now.  I'll mull it over for a bit since I would at least like to see how the tests would perform if another layer was added.

Did I mention that everything is glued together now!?!  I mean, the (insert appropriate name here) is glued to the stand that is glued to my work bench!  So modifications of the type you are suggesting would require major surgery.  Craziness!  Probably better to start over.  Or not.

Have you met my friend Dale?

M.

Quote from: webby1 on October 28, 2012, 11:45:35 AM
If you could, and when you are set back up for lift, I would like to see 3 pics, one with the risers down with only the sink weight on, one when you have reached full precharge with the lift weight on but not lifting and the final one when the stroke is complete

Pics of just the (insert appropriate name here) or do you need the fill tube in the shot?

I just hooked up the "stage lighting" again.  Funny thing.  Those LEDs seem to like their electrical power hooked up one way more than the other.  In fact, if I reverse the polarity, they don't light up at all!  Who knew?

Now that is at least two hours of my life that I'm not getting back!

Hope it helps.  Let me know if you want me to email higher rez versions.

M.