Quote from: GreenHiker on November 04, 2012, 11:21:39 PM
For a contributor like Mondrasek to be attacked by anyone on this forum is ridiculous.
And all of that bickering with Red Sunset to get him to call Wayne so you can have your update?
It's time to take a break and reflect TK.
Tom

Thanks guys (Tom, Larry, Wildew) for that whiff of sanity !

TK should realize that his point (notwithstanding it is a valid one), his domineering noise is blanking out all other communication.  Hard work, a good ear and patience are virtues.

Quote from: mondrasek on November 04, 2012, 09:50:34 PM

TK, you are the one that calls into question my "intentions" for building, testing, and posting data.

I'll quote:
But sorry... I am afraid I just don't swallow the idea that you weren't trying to build a Zed whose results would apply to MisterWayne's system. And I think everyone reading here knew that you were, at the time.
End quote.

My reply was only to say that your inferences were not based on facts.  If you feel otherwise, please state your case.  At this point I don't see why you are bringing up history that I have already freely and openly disclosed and am happy to share.  Including my humiliating experience about.

Can we please more forward?  I have always and would continue to appreciate your input on the current test data that is presented. 

M.

Again, you miss my point.
The only reason I brought up your "humiliating experience"....which, had it not been for my insistence, might have been even more humiliating and costly .... was because you brought up your design and patent experience as some kind of credential. I just wanted to remind you that all your experiences in this field haven't been entirely positive, and that I have been right.... more than once.... about the things I've told you about gravity and magnetism and the possibility of making a perpetual motion machine using them as "power sources". After all, it's the only patent application or attempt of yours, the only design of yours, that I have direct experience with. I do recall how astounded I was to learn, back then, that you were a robotics designer, since you apparently had forgotten more than I ever knew about calculating arms and moments.

Can you really honestly tell me that you +weren't+ trying to replicate as much of a Zed system as you could manage? That you  happily and with full knowledge started out building something that ISN'T a Zed, was never intended to be a Zed, and produces results that aren't applicable to a Zed? OK, fine, but I think re-reading your early posts on the matter might refresh your memory a bit. I think you started out to build as much of a Zed as you could do, just like webby did, but with different and perhaps better materials. You now tell me differently ... OK, fine, sorry for "assuming" that you were actually trying to build a Zed that would give measurements that could tell us something about Mister Wayne's system.

But I have to ask you , then.... what is the point?  If we cannot generalize from your results to the Zed performance, then you are just wasting everybody's time with your cool gadget, aren't you?  Why should I give input to you on something that doesn't even relate to the topic of this thread?

Funny..... I accuse you of trying to build a Zed, and you deny it. Isn't that a bit ironic?

Quote from: wildew on November 04, 2012, 10:47:52 PM
@TinselKoala
That is LOW !
WOW!
A personal attack on someone like M. ?!?
You need help.

Dale

Low? Ask Mondrasek whether or not he found my input helpful at all, on that other project of his that I mentioned. I don't think you were around then.... let's just say that his experience might have been even more "humiliating" to use his word, and costly,  had I not helped him out back then. And my major help was not by building a system similar to what he designed, but rather by my _words_ and my insistence on facts and correct calculations based on solid engineering principles.

I have made no personal attacks on Mondrasek, and he knows it. On the other hand, I seem to be the target of plenty of personal attacks here. Like this one from you, alleging that I somehow "need help".
You are right... I need help. Seamus10n hasn't posted much lately though, and you've managed to scare off most of the rest of the scientific skeptics with those personal attacks and insults.

It would also be very helpful if someone would answer some of the questions. The main one being.... what about the "simple three-layer system that is clearly overunity by itself". Those are mister Wayne's exact words. Nobody will tell me where that system is today, why it cannot be shown, how its clear overunity performance was determined, what was the input/output work ratio? Does the "by itself" part mean a single Zed, or not? Aren't you curious at all about these things, Dale? Would the answers not be most helpful to YOU, since you seem to have a similar set of hardware, but that isn't clearly overunity by itself?

Quote from: LarryC on November 04, 2012, 11:04:34 PM
@TK,
Please get back on your meds or see a doctor. Do you realize how many delusional conclusions you have made in the last 24 hours?

Ah, YET ANOTHER personal attack and insult. Thanks for showing me what I'm supposed to be doing against others. By the way... where is the example of me insulting anyone, as I have been insulted here?

For your information, Sir, I am not on any medication, and I will put my grasp of reality up against yours any day of the week, including Sunday. Don't you remember that I've asked you a couple of simple and respectful questions about your claims? You've not deigned to answer them, even though what you said is rather amazing. You said that you already know the results, and I just asked you to tell us HOW you knew the results.
And I asked you to clarify the part about it not being a matter of "if"... but "WHEN" it will work.

Those things are more "delusional" than anything I've ever said here, because they aren't based on facts, just your beliefs.

Here it is again:

So, then LarryC.... you are claiming that you've seen a Hydro Differential Pressure Exhange Overunity System running, all on its own, for longer than possible on its internally stored energy, making useful power, for longer than four hours? And you are claiming that you know how to build one yourself and get it running, and you are claiming your spreadsheets accurately reflect what's going on inside the system.

Am I right? Is this what you are claiming, when you say "I already know the results" ??

Otherwise, how could you already know the results?

"It is not a matter of if it will work, but when." This sure sounds to me like it's STILL NOT WORKING YET.

Quotations in RED are of course from your own statements, LarryC.

While you are at it, consider again the other question that has never been answered by anyone:

Where is the " simple, three layer system that is clearly overunity BY ITSELF" (MrWayne's exact words), how was its clear overunity determined, what is the input/output work of this simple system?

The "by itself" part: I've always interpreted this to mean, from context, that Mister Wayne was talking about a single Zed. Otherwise why include the "by itself"?
Of course if anyone has actually SEEN this system they could tell me whether it's got two zeds or one. Or would that reveal information I'm not supposed to have?

And another question, Larry: has your spreadsheet been able to duplicate the performance numbers of ANY real system for which we have data, like Dales, or Webby's or Mondrasek's? Have you tried actually validating your spreadsheet against any real system?

I don't really think you'll answer these questions, Larry, because the answers are not to your liking.
Here's what I think : You have not validated your spreadsheet by duplicating the performance of any real system. You don't really "know" that "it" works, you are just expressing a faith. It's not a question of "if" but "when" means it's not working YET, and you don't know how the clear overunity performance of the simple three layer system by itself, was determined, and you can't tell me the ratio of input to output work or what form the output work takes. And I'll just go ahead and stipulate that the "by itself" part of Mister Wayne's exact words was intended to indicate a single Zed, by itself, not in connection with another. Please correct me if I'm wrong in any of this, by giving me the correct answer. Delusional conclusions? Well then...what are the FACTS that prove that my conclusions are "delusional"?

Quote from: GreenHiker on November 04, 2012, 11:21:39 PM
For a contributor like Mondrasek to be attacked by anyone on this forum is ridiculous.

And all of that bickering with Red Sunset to get him to call Wayne so you can have your update?

It's time to take a break and reflect TK.

Tom

Sure, Tom, I'll reflect all right. I'll reflect all the insults made against me, and all the excuses for Mister Wayne not meeting his own deadlines, right back at you. Just what is this "attack" you speak of? The only person being attacked, here, as far as I can see... is me. As usual.

You aren't much of a poker player are you. I knew Red_Sunset would not make the call I suggested, because I know that he doesn't have the faith that he pretends to have. Why not call Mister Wayne and ask him how his validation is going this weekend? I think it's because RedSunset didn't want to hear what he knows he would likely have heard: that there isn't any validation going on this weekend, because of some inconvenience or leak or missed appointment or something, but really because the New Model, just like the Old Model, all nine of them.... won't run under its own power for more than four hours. It's not MY update..... it's YOURS. Don't you need this validation? Aren't you going to look silly when it doesn't happen?
Consider the possibilities:  if Mister Wayne is wrong, all this is a waste of time and you and the rest of the believers will have to hang your heads in chagrin, apologise to me, and go back to your day jobs and the price of your gasoline will continue to rise. OR... Mister Wayne is right, I am wrong (along with all the physics and thermodynamics texts in the world).... and whatever chagrin I might feel will be lost in the real revolutionary upheaval that will be produced by the first Free Energy device on the planet. I'll take the risk, happily, because I have got nothing to lose. If Mister Wayne is right we all benefit, even me, and I'll be quite happy in my momentary embarrassment and you can mock me and insult me all you like, it won't matter a bit.
But if Mister Wayne is WRONG -- which hundreds of years of scientific experimentation says he must be ..... what are you gonna do? What's YOUR backup plan, then?

Quote from: LarryC on November 04, 2012, 11:39:19 PM
Please, go for it with my blessing. It may help you back to normalcy.

See? Yet another attack and insult. And that is in reply to this quote from me:

QuoteI agree, it would seem _necessary_ for any spreadsheet to be validated against known systems. And I have no idea how LarryC's spreadsheet is organised, but from my own spreadsheet experience, it might be possible to change the spreadsheet, or add to it, to make it model 2, or 3, or 4 or even 5 layers of a zed. Certainly it should be easier to do that, than for you to modify your hardware to fit the "three layer" definition.

The major advantage of spreadsheets is that variables can be just that: allowed to vary, and their effect on results examined quickly. Of course, the spreadsheet has to be designed by someone who isn't an ignoramus and who knows how to program it to handle variables. Not up to the job, LarryC? Did I just call you an ignoramus?
Did you call me deluded, on medication, in a doctor's care, ABNORMAL?


Meanwhile, it is now Monday morning in Oklahoma. I'm sure we'll be hearing some news from Mister Wayne soon. A quick poll: who thinks that Mister Wayne will be announcing a successful complete validation, a self running machine that makes useful output power and doesn't stop after four or six or eight hours?

Quote from: Red_Sunset on November 05, 2012, 12:27:33 AM
Thanks guys (Tom, Larry, Wildew) for that whiff of sanity !

TK should realize that his point (notwithstanding it is a valid one), his domineering noise is blanking out all other communication.  Hard work, a good ear and patience are virtues.

That's right.... I am holding up progress, simply by posting on an internet forum, the most effective way to hold up progress ever invented. Domineering noise blanking out all other communication! Imagine the power I have. Sitting here in South Texas in my little DeepBunker, I am to blame for the fact that Larry's spreadsheet can't model a real system that we can measure, that Mondrasek doesn't have a three layer Zed, that Webby's system is not OU and wildew's system is leaking,  and that Mark Dansie isn't visiting Oklahoma watching a Free Energy machine making energy from gravity and running along for days at a time without any input. All my fault for making all this "domineering noise". Sure it is. Why, I'm sure Mister Wayne is trying to post right now, but can't make it through all the domineering noise.... much of which actually seems to be in the form of insults and attacks against me.
Why don't you just put me on your ignore list, Red, like Wayne did months ago. That way you can get on with your work, building and spreadsheeting. Oh..... wait.... .sorry, I forgot for a moment, you are doing neither.

This post is mostly for TinselKoala, because he tries so hard to show the errors of Mr. Wayne and his ardent followers.

Psychological studies have proven, a strong believe system can not be destroyed. So, no matter what amount of words, or scientific and technical arguments, or even actual proof that the system is not OU, nothing will ever convince Mr. Wayne and his apostles.

TinselKoala already made this tiring experience with RosiPosi (and probably with many more OU-inventors).

See this story about the three Christs http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Three_Christs_of_Ypsilanti , http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/science/2010/05/jesus_jesus_jesus.html .

You will see, there is no cure.

This thread is now in the realm of psychology. And unfortunately, there is no pill and no treatment. The sufferers hold on to their illusions till they depart.

Greetings, Conrad

Back from a long weekend and I can see yet again that Wayne has failed to have his device verified,
and that TK is being attacked for asking relevant questions about the device, I can understand this behaviour
coming from "Mr Red I only ever post in this thread" Wayne's salesman and promoter,
but the other members/believers should know better from the history of this forum, and if you really want
to stop TK repeatedly asking relevant questions and challenging the claims made,
then why on earth don't any one of you produce evidence that proves a three layer system is overunity
and show us a self-running device ?

I can't run my house on blind faith and neither can you, so stop attacking people for asking for proof,
especially since so much time has elapsed since the beginning of this thread and Wayne has continuously
broken his word, I wonder......are some of you being paid by Wayne to keep the faith ?
it is all getting very very suspicious and beginning to look like a con, as Wayne seems to be only interested
in attracting investors, and he has no intention of allowing a validation by Mark Dansie.