Quote from: TinselKoala on November 07, 2012, 03:45:31 AM
Mister Wayne's "explanations" do not explain anything in any language I speak. Energy and work are measured in Joules in the Systeme Internationale, used by scientists and engineers around the world. Efficiency is the ratio of output energy to input energy, or equivalently, work. Ratios are expressed by division. That is just the way it is. And Mister Wayne has repeatedly said that there is NO INPUT.
That is NOT meaningless!!  Would you care to dispute any of those specific points?? Or are you satisfied with calling me names and slinging more mud at me?

If you are referring to Mister Wayne's calling an airconditioner overunity..... well, as long as you don't take into consideration the energy it takes to run it..... oh come on, pull the other one why don't you. This is absurd.

And are you offering me a contract? I doubt if you can afford my daily rate, and I have a penalty clause in my standard contract that says if I get there and am NOT shown what I have been offered to see, for any reason not of my doing, whether act of God or war or tsunami or parts left on the loading dock or whatever, I turn around and go home immediately, with three full days paid at my usual rate.

You get my sarcasm, humor, critical analysis based on what I read here and there, and you get to sling mud at me for free. But if you want me to travel.... you must pay, and there will be conditions.

But you don't have to pay Maggie, she works for biscuits.

But all that is moot anyway. I don't want to be anywhere near something that's ten feet tall, groans like a sick Texas Longhorn, and is 960 percent overunity.... and keeps springing leaks.

Tinsel,    The communication is getting so absurd and surreal that I question why we even communicate.
But to help an associate in distress, we need to go the long haul. Because we are human.
No, I am not slinging or trying to sling mud at you or maggie.
And no, do not get any idea's that I am offering you or maggie a contract or biscuits. 
I was only suggesting a possible road to recovery.

Instead of giving me generic explanations and statements, tell me in detail how Wayne said he measured efficiency in that other language ?

Quote from: seamus103 on November 07, 2012, 04:05:01 AM
..........................................................  What flummoxes me in this whole comedy is how Mr Wayne can continue to believe this lie when by now all the evidence points to what we as skeptics already know for sure. This machine cannot work. There is 200 years at least of unassailable science that shows why and everyone would be wise to learn from that.

Seamus,
You making general statements that flummoxes me in this whole comedy you skeptics have laid on.
OK, the machine can not work !!! 
Why can this specific creation from Wayne not work the way he said ?. That is what I need to hear from you,  there is not one case made in the past 200 pages of this forum that does that. Only generics, "There is 200 years at least of unassailable science that shows why" >> that is a history lesson, not a reasoning of impossibility!!   Sure it accentuates that it is and will be a tuff call to disprove a 200yr blockage.

If you thinking that you are making a convincing case, you are not.
I think Wayne made a convincing case that held up under critical analysis and number validation, that shows a "possible" way out of these 200 years.

What are we to believe ?, "good logical reasoning" or "that history can not be overcome" ?  I would go with good logical reasoning , keeping the knowledge of history into account and go along UNTIL PROVEN DIFFERENT. (I would stay away from those 100 jumping people that look at each other dumbfounded, I rather follow my head)

This "PROVEN DIFFERENT" you have NOT provided, Why?  There is enough material to base your negative analysis on.
I know that takes work and time to do.   Are you taking the easy way out ?

UNTIL PROVEN DIFFERENT, 
UNTIL THE FAULT IN THE REASONING FLOW IS POINTED OUT. 
>>UNTIL THEN, I STAND and BELIEVE UNSHAKABLE<<

*** This also means
- I do not have to repeat that Wayne's theory can work
- And neither do you have to repeat that it doesn't
Until new specific proof is presented for evaluation to the contrary of either point

Quote from: Red_Sunset on November 07, 2012, 12:24:51 AM
Hi PowerCat,
Fine work !! I really appreciate how you make a good point,  your point made is very clear based on the extracts. And I sure can not refute the points you are trying to make !!  and I am not going to try either.
Since I am not intimate to Wayne's exact business and development strategy and modus operandi, I therefore will not try to argue because I would be on thin ice and sucking my thumb if I do.
This is the way I envisage a good forum should work, clear informed position statements, rebuttals and counter arguments based on fact and backed up with documentation rather than emotional outbursts !  Something Wayne referred to several times as due diligence.

In that context a few comments,
1.. Wildew makes a good position point in # 2875 and mine would be in similar vain because I believe the concept can and will work (based on my own deductions, not on Wayne's directly although they conspire in part). I better build my own to prove as you are doing (but dual zed).

2.. TinselKoala makes a presumptuous emotional  attack in # 2876,  they might be his biased on his personal feelings and opinions but they should not find a place on this forum.  His personal  emotional infused utterings are of no benefit to anyone, only creates bad feelings.  A structured logical argument would be better here.
The reference from MH that says that, "TK is a solid good guy and has done a lot of great work over the years.  No one should doubt his honesty, integrity or sincerity" , I have no doubt that he "was", but at THAT moment in time, it should be corrected NOW to read " TK WAS a solid good guy ......... but lately lost his handle on things."

3.. MileHigh makes some good points in post #2968,  unfortunately it is just too high level and too broad without any specifics to do anything with or about. This brings it into the category of personal opinion but does nothing to further this topic.
To find resolve, more specific questions need to be asked backed with reference otherwise it just remains talk to talk.

You really don't get the purpose of this forum, most of the members here are interested in finding overunity
or doing research into ways this might be possible...mainly working on improving efficiency,
TK does a lot of work on this and also helps others understand their circuit and how to measure correctly,
he is not the only one there are many great members here helping each other and getting along very nicely.

It is not up to any member here to prove anything to you, they are not making claims of overunity,
and that's the big point you keep missing....  If Wayne had come here to discuss an idea or looking
to develop one, do you really think he would have got the treatment you think is unjustified.
Try try looking at some other threads where overunity is not being claimed.

Do you think this is the first time this forum has seen a promising claim of overunity.
Again Wayne is the big I am...I've done it....it works...I have got overunity...
and he is saying that to a forum of people mainly interested in overunity and discovering it,
you seem to believe we should just accept his word for it....he is also seriously lacking
in Scientific Data...verification, and successful replications showing clear overunity.

Unfortunately you are completely addicted to this thread, and believe in Wayne's device blindly,
challenges will continue until Wayn comes up with some proper evidence.

Red, with enemies like you, who needs friends? 

I believe you just asked _me_ to explain Mister Wayne's explanations to _you_. Yep... that's absurd all right.

Here's the thing. A person has an idea, perhaps it came to him in a dream or a vision or by prayer or whatever. He sketches it out, thinks about it, takes a bath, and has an Eureka! moment. His logic is impeccable and his sketches look right and even some b.o.e. calculations give tempting results. He's absolutely sure that a device made on the principle revealed in his vision will work and will be revolutionary, running itself and giving out more energy than it takes in. He's a charismatic individual and a born salesman and lives within a closeknit family, small town civic and religious circle of friends and relations. He's able to convince a lot of people to back him simply because he is so sure of himself, and quite honestly so.
So he gets to building. The nature of the vision, the device and the forces concerned mean that the device is working back and forth around a delicate balance. It's big and bulky and the differential is small.... but it almost works, almost takes off and runs itself.... but comes to a stop in a few minutes. Well, it's just a preliminary version, but all the backers come around, have coffee or beers, talk and look and are still sure that their boy is on to something. They don't quite understand what, but as long as he does... and he seems to, he's got these explanations that sound pretty good I guess, don't they to you Honey? Let's pick up some chicken on the way home...
Anyway...what happens now. The machine doesn't quite work. The inventor goes home but can't sleep. He has two ways to think about his experience but he only sees one.

Way number one: The scientist looks at the DATA from the experiment, which she knows is good.... so she examines her THEORY to find where it is flawed.
Way number two: The person of faith looks at the Theory, which he knows is True, and therefore there must be something wrong with the experiment, like the apparatus or the materials or the conditions.

Mister Wayne is a person of faith, not a scientist, and sees only the second way of thinking of the situation. And he's been through, taking his word, nine iterations of this process and is on the tenth. Nine experiments telling him he cannot make a self running device. But he is quite sure his theory is correct.... so he builds a tenth system, improving a little bit more, solving some of the problems, learning how to do hydraulic pressure plumbing properly, how to use a torque wrench, how to get curved paths out of linear hardware, and having a jolly good time. Each iteration is a little different and usually cannibalizes the previous iteration, so there's nothing stored back in the barn to ship off to independent testers.  Meanwhile.... even the other people of faith are having trouble swallowing the latest miracle.

How many times have we seen this process repeated, just in different makeup? Until I named MrWayne, I could have been talking about dozens of people who have posted on this forum alone in the past four years since I've been looking around, same basic story just different details.

Anyhow, it's plain that my calling attention to the inclusion of Mark Dansie's name in the "investors" list rattled Mister Wayne's cage a bit. That seriously looked bad. I accept the explanation that it was a mistake on his part, that it's not true that MD is an investor, and I sure hope MD has invested nothing other than his time and thought on this, because had he really been an investor that is a serious conflict of interest and would in my thinking disqualify him from "validating" MrWayne's system.
But then.... it seems that he's sending someone else anyway, or will when the time comes. Weird.

Quote from: TinselKoala on November 07, 2012, 05:32:03 AM
Red, with enemies like you, who needs friends?

Tinsel,  I am your friend, you just don't know it yet.
PowerCat,  I thought that Wayne explained his invention rather well.  Sure he was a bit economical on elaborate disclosures, and didn't go into great detail but using a thinking mind it could be decrypted.
Nowhere do I see a question that hasn't been answered in this forum,  the only request that has been refused is actual life data.
Skeptics don't object to a theory point, they just claim it doesn't work without stating what doesn't work,. Stating that the whole thing doesn't work doesn't help anybody.
I think we have a serious disconnect here !

I think you are correct, I spent too much time on this forum, you could say addicted.