Bill,

The fact that an LED is a nonlinear load, and a resistor is a linear load is irrelevant to the measurement. ANY load can be properly measured as is being discussed here, and the results will be correct. For some reason Xee can not get his mind around this and is hung up by this method.

Quote from: poynt99 on March 20, 2013, 10:57:41 PM
Bill,

The fact that an LED is a nonlinear load, and a resistor is a linear load is irrelevant to the measurement. ANY load can be properly measured as is being discussed here, and the results will be correct. For some reason Xee can not get his mind around this and is hung up by this method.

I will have to take your word for that.  I was surprised to learn that Ohm's law does not apply in all cases.  In my mind that does not make it much of a "law".

Do you not agree that if there is even .000001% O.U. than a self-runner would prove this?  If it were an even 0 then maybe nothing but, even the slightest output more than in would make it run itself....no?  Anyway, this is what I believe is the first, most basic, test.

Bill

Quote from: Pirate88179 on March 20, 2013, 11:03:16 PM
I will have to take your word for that.  I was surprised to learn that Ohm's law does not apply in all cases.  In my mind that does not make it much of a "law".

Do you not agree that if there is even .000001% O.U. than a self-runner would prove this?  If it were an even 0 then maybe nothing but, even the slightest output more than in would make it run itself....no?  Anyway, this is what I believe is the first, most basic, test.

Bill

@Bill,

If you look at reply 317 and 320 of this thread, you will see the waveforms when the Output of one JT is used as Input to another.  The result is much more complex than a simple superimposition.

The good news is - one group informed me that their battery charger can light up many LEDs and the batteries can recharge each other.  I shall do an oscilloscope analysis of a simpler battery charger circuit and see whether external energy (lead-out energy) is responsible.  I hope that you do not mine that the "self-runner" turns out to be a battery charger!

If I am not mistaken, your 1980 oscilloscope is not able to capture the data from the two channels as CSV files for analysis.

The forever lighted lamp plus the battery charger?

Two rechargeable AA batteries were used.  Both were slightly run down.  The Input Voltage Vrms was 1.24V at start.  After 1 hour, the Input Voltage Vrms increased to 1.26V.  After swapping, the Input Voltage Vrms continued to be 1.26V with either battery.  The LED remained at the same brightness throughout.

A similar set up lighted the LED for three weeks with full brightness until the cleaning lady "touched" it.  This time, no one is allowed to enter my bedroom.  One group told me that they had such a set up running for > 3 months already.  So far the oscilloscope pictures indicate that they may be right.  There is much energy coming in from the outside - lead-out energy?  Focus on the Negative Input Current (lower part of Input waveform; same technique as Mr. Zhou).

Attached is the circuit diagram for the rechargeable AA batteries + LED on March 21, 2013.

At the moment, the two batteries are swapped when the Input Channel 1 Vrms drops to 1.24V.  It happens every 4-5 hours.  Once swapped, the Vrms rises to 1.28Vfor a few minutes and settles back to 1.26V for some hours.  If this pattern continues for days or weeks, we shall be confident of the experimental results and the technical procedures to replicate and improve...

The Board used is 71 - already confirmed to have Average Output Power > Average Input Power.

With FLEET, the circuit diagram is a guideline.  Not all build according to the circuit diagram will hehave in the same way.  Lighting the LED does not guarantee that the Board is OU.  The oscilloscope confirmation is the absolute MUST.

*** I am only sowing seeds.  Others are already fertilizing, watering, weeding etc.  In scientific terms, they are:
(1) Using 2n3055 or higher end transistors.
(2) Using different pulsing methods.
(3) Using different connections (e.g. seondary coils or Joule RInger)
(4) Using 12V car batteries.
(5) Using other sources to Pulse and Maintain the Lead-out Energy conditions. (e.g. solar or mains power).
The floodgate is open....  God Bless.