Quote from: Farmhand on May 26, 2013, 02:08:46 AM
Since i started this thread I'm going to take the liberty to go a bit further off topic to illustrate a point.

I hear all to often the claim that the Tesla transmitters for the transmission of signals and such without wires, must use spark gaps or capacitor discharges ect, but that is untrue, and I have words from Tesla to show he never insisted that was the only way.

In this patent linked below. Tesla clearly says that an alternator can be used to energize the primary. The words are crystal clear. As far as I know alternators produce continuous sine waves.

http://www.google.com/patents?id=oSo_AAAAEBAJ&printsec=abstract&zoom=4#v=onepage&q&f=false

Page 2 line 62 to 69

So there is another misconception, Tesla did say an appropriate alternating dynamo can be used, as he did use many times.

As I see it it is our responsibility to point out when people say otherwise and contradict Tesla while purporting to support his work and legacy.

The patent linked in this post describes "The Art Of Transmitting Electrical Energy Through The Natural Mediums". And If any patents are to be questioned I think this is the one to look at. If the claims in this patent are shown be incorrect or false, then that would mean something.

http://www.google.com/patents?id=oSo_AAAAEBAJ&printsec=abstract&zoom=4#v=onepage&q&f=false

Cheers

So anyone want to quote from the patent and say it isn't so ?


...

Yes, that is right.... but also, the important factor for success is not the shape of the primary stimulating wave per se, but rather the rise and fall times of the peak currents.  You can use sine waves just fine, as Tesla knew and stated. The key is to have high currents swinging at high frequencies, so that the rise and fall times of the sine wave are rapid and steep. However, as Tesla also knew, a spike or rectangular wave is even better for a given peak current and frequency, because it has even faster rise/fall time than a sine wave does. Tesla spent a whole lot of time on spark gaps, in order to attain the most rapid striking and quenching possible, while still using high currents.
Nowadays with modern components we can make clean sine waves with great peak currents at appropriately high frequencies to achieve the desired effects, without using big tank capacitors or spark gaps.

Quote from: MileHigh on May 26, 2013, 02:17:01 AM
Farmhand:

I have no issues with the patent.  My real question is what can you do with it?  If there are no real applications then it's just a curiosity.

(snip)
MileHigh

You are kidding, right?

Have you used a radio at all lately?

Quote from: TinselKoala on May 26, 2013, 01:15:31 PM
You are kidding, right?

It doesnt seem so...  He really is hell bent when it comes to people talking about or using this coil.     He claims its a waste of time and he is trying to save us from that. There are many other threads here that could use that kind of savior, but they dont use or talk about bifi coils, soo...

Mags

TK:

This patent has nothing to do with a radio circuit.  The basic building blocks of an AM radio are a variable-capacitor LC tank circuit to do the tuning an an LC-based IF amplifier to generate the IF multiplying frequency and a band-pass filter and a peak detector to extract the audio.  I am talking of course about original radio.  Many experimenters could do well to investigate those circuits, tubes and all.  That has nothing to do with a big self-resonating coil.

Magluvin:

QuoteIt doesnt seem so...  He really is hell bent when it comes to people talking about or using this coil.  (http://www.overunity.com/Smileys/default/shocked.gif) (http://www.overunity.com/Smileys/default/wink.gif)   He claims its a waste of time and he is trying to save us from that. There are many other threads here that could use that kind of savior, but they dont use or talk about bifi coils, soo...

That's a false Strawman argument.  I am not hell-bent on anything and I am not trying to 'save' anybody.

QuoteA straw man or straw person, also known in the UK as an Aunt Sally,[1][2] is a type of argument and is an informal fallacy

based on misrepresentation of an opponent's position.[3] To "attack a straw man" is to create the illusion of having refuted a

proposition by replacing it with a superficially similar yet unequivalent proposition (the "straw man"), and to refute it,

without ever having actually refuted the original position.[3][4] This technique has been used throughout history in polemical

debate, particularly in arguments about highly charged, emotional issues.

The original position:  I said I am not aware of any applications for a big self-resonating coil as described in the patent, it might just be a curiosity.

Can you suggest some applications for it yourself Magluvin?

MileHigh

Quote from: MileHigh on May 26, 2013, 02:26:28 PM


Magluvin:

That's a false Strawman argument.  I am not hell-bent on anything and I am not trying to 'save' anybody.

The original position:  I said I am not aware of any applications for a big self-resonating coil as described in the patent, it might just be a curiosity.

"That's a false Strawman argument."      Oh really?     Here is some hay for ya.....

"The basic point is to not have the misconception that so-called "series bifilar" coils have some imagined advantages when it comes to making a pulse motor, whether it be as drive coils or as pick-up coils.  You want to not have beginners spend months or more with this false notion." http://www.overunity.com/13460/teslas-coil-for-electro-magnets/msg360620/#msg360620

"The basic point is to not have the misconception"     'The basic point is' you should eat your hay now.



"You want to not have beginners spend months or more with this false notion."     No, it is you that does not want beginners to spend time..... You.      More hay?


So you can take your strawman diagnosis and description and put it where it really fits.

Mags