Quote from: sparks on July 07, 2013, 03:55:24 AM
   I would think that Tesla was having trouble with developing high voltage capacitors so he used the capacitance of the coil itself.  The coil is just a tank but the components are not discrete.  This would save on resistive and inductive losses in any shunts between discrete components.  If you take two sheets of aluminum with a seperator between same.  coil them up and drop them in some oil you have an oil filled capacitor.  You also have a bifilar wound coil.  You have mutual inductance as I would imagine electrons would be moving within the capacitor and give rise to magnetic field flux changes that would cause eddy currents in the foil.  All sorts of changes in the resonant frequency of the tank as the rlc values drift all over the place.  The necessity to monitor all the major components for values and adjust for changes in same.   Meanwhile the tesla bifilar wound tank suffered from few of these problems if any.

You hit the nail on the head. He was having trouble with capacitors and Higher voltages. This is why he developed the coils initially. But if we look at the Pancake coils we will understand something quite remarkable about the coils. As with the JLN LAbs experiment there is something when the (cap coil) is used in an unconventional way. Even though the self induction is vastly reduced it still receives a signal at an amplified manner through induction. This is from the flat sides of the pancake coil. The amount of amplification is based on a few things. One is the capacitance of the coil and the other thing is the length of the wire of both parallel wires. Since we know capacitance is real and works like any real capacitor this is used to put power behind any signal the coil is tuned for, for output from the receiving bifilar pancake coil to load.


As for the increased magnetic component I am designing aa simple experiment to prove this to any nay-sayer. It's there but most only play with solenoids and this won't be a prevalent as with the pancake design. The lengths of the coils must also be Long and the signals used must be 1/4 wave of that length or there about for the coils to have a resonant response.


My first experiments with a cap coil were with regular caps and an outside signal being fed into a coil around the caps. Itsu did a small set of experiments with this and it led me to other experiments with a katcher coil and it's output being fed to the coil around the cap which energized the cap to a limited degree. But none the less it did energize the cap from outside of the cap. What JNL Labs did was to continue these initial tests with a different approach that others have tried in the past. Through induction from the flat side of the coils of a bifilar wound pancake coils they saw a greater response to induced power in the bifilar receiver coils which powered a load. As for the type of signal we need I have not gotten that far in my investigations of this bifilar design. Most investigations have been with inputting a signal directly into the coil and that is an incorrect way to view this coil. It is what is external to the coil that we must investigate and the coils response to that external environment. It is what is being put out and what is being received that we must investigate.


What is the correct geometry of the input and output.
Would a normal wire axial to the center of the cap coil net more in and out then we see with a traditional solenoid coil? How does a bifilar coil react to impulses applied to it in the normal fashion?
Does the bifilar coil charge up faster then a traditional solenoid since self induction is cancelled from the bifilar coil?
How does the bifilar react to impulses as apposed to an AC or DC waveform, both internally or externally?


These are real questions that have not been asked and most certainly not been answered in the correct manner by most.
I suspect that Kapanadze did ask these questions and found the correct geometry and method to use with a bifilar coil to amplify a signal and found a way to convert the response into real current for use from his devices. In all of his devices I see a common theme which is not a trick. That theme is TESLA. This is not hero worship it is a stated fact from MR. Kapanadze. All of his Tricks are just common Tesla methods. If it is true then looking at Tesla methods is what we need to do. There is nothing magical about Tesla's methods and nothing magical about Tesla. He was a doer and not an armchair scientist/physicist. Now we need to investigate, for real, what Kapanadze learned about Tesla's methods. How these methods can be applied to our lives to improve our lives should be the goal. Not disputing and fighting the claims in un-humanistic ways, we should be able to do this with dignity and basic respect for one another.


I have shown many times before how Kapanadze and others have taken Tesla's methods and used them to an advantage. I have tried to explain these findings with an honest approach. Most of the time I have been accused of heresy to the dogma that is science today. I have been debased and attacked on a most personal way and I relish the attempts because I know there is truth behind me. Tesla felt the same. We just need to put aside our prejudices to the current proposed methods and look at it with fresh eyes and open minds. We need this as a society if we are to survive. Our lives are changing every day and we should be able to live without sacrificing our lives for money to afford the basics of life. In this day and age we should be able to live without toil and the forced "fight to survive". Life doesn't come at a price, it is a gift from the Universe. Living that life should not cost us our souls and our precious moments in that life. We should live to experience life and not be forced into slavery to afford that life and experiencing the worst of that life.


So lets try to learn what Tesla and others were trying to say. Lets experience the wonder of life again and learn the true nature of nature.


Peace to you all
jbignes5

Quote from: jbignes5 on July 08, 2013, 08:48:35 AM

You hit the nail on the head. He was having trouble with capacitors and Higher voltages. This is why he developed the coils initially. But if we look at the Pancake coils we will understand something quite remarkable about the coils. As with the JLN LAbs experiment there is something when the (cap coil) is used in an unconventional way. Even though the self induction is vastly reduced it still receives a signal at an amplified manner through induction. This is from the flat sides of the pancake coil. The amount of amplification is based on a few things. One is the capacitance of the coil and the other thing is the length of the wire of both parallel wires. Since we know capacitance is real and works like any real capacitor this is used to put power behind any signal the coil is tuned for, for output from the receiving bifilar pancake coil to load.


As for the increased magnetic component I am designing aa simple experiment to prove this to any nay-sayer. It's there but most only play with solenoids and this won't be a prevalent as with the pancake design. The lengths of the coils must also be Long and the signals used must be 1/4 wave of that length or there about for the coils to have a resonant response.


My first experiments with a cap coil were with regular caps and an outside signal being fed into a coil around the caps. Itsu did a small set of experiments with this and it led me to other experiments with a katcher coil and it's output being fed to the coil around the cap which energized the cap to a limited degree. But none the less it did energize the cap from outside of the cap. What JNL Labs did was to continue these initial tests with a different approach that others have tried in the past. Through induction from the flat side of the coils of a bifilar wound pancake coils they saw a greater response to induced power in the bifilar receiver coils which powered a load. As for the type of signal we need I have not gotten that far in my investigations of this bifilar design. Most investigations have been with inputting a signal directly into the coil and that is an incorrect way to view this coil. It is what is external to the coil that we must investigate and the coils response to that external environment. It is what is being put out and what is being received that we must investigate.


What is the correct geometry of the input and output.
Would a normal wire axial to the center of the cap coil net more in and out then we see with a traditional solenoid coil? How does a bifilar coil react to impulses applied to it in the normal fashion?
Does the bifilar coil charge up faster then a traditional solenoid since self induction is cancelled from the bifilar coil?
How does the bifilar react to impulses as apposed to an AC or DC waveform, both internally or externally?


These are real questions that have not been asked and most certainly not been answered in the correct manner by most.
I suspect that Kapanadze did ask these questions and found the correct geometry and method to use with a bifilar coil to amplify a signal and found a way to convert the response into real current for use from his devices. In all of his devices I see a common theme which is not a trick. That theme is TESLA. This is not hero worship it is a stated fact from MR. Kapanadze. All of his Tricks are just common Tesla methods. If it is true then looking at Tesla methods is what we need to do. There is nothing magical about Tesla's methods and nothing magical about Tesla. He was a doer and not an armchair scientist/physicist. Now we need to investigate, for real, what Kapanadze learned about Tesla's methods. How these methods can be applied to our lives to improve our lives should be the goal. Not disputing and fighting the claims in un-humanistic ways, we should be able to do this with dignity and basic respect for one another.


I have shown many times before how Kapanadze and others have taken Tesla's methods and used them to an advantage. I have tried to explain these findings with an honest approach. Most of the time I have been accused of heresy to the dogma that is science today. I have been debased and attacked on a most personal way and I relish the attempts because I know there is truth behind me. Tesla felt the same. We just need to put aside our prejudices to the current proposed methods and look at it with fresh eyes and open minds. We need this as a society if we are to survive. Our lives are changing every day and we should be able to live without sacrificing our lives for money to afford the basics of life. In this day and age we should be able to live without toil and the forced "fight to survive". Life doesn't come at a price, it is a gift from the Universe. Living that life should not cost us our souls and our precious moments in that life. We should live to experience life and not be forced into slavery to afford that life and experiencing the worst of that life.


So lets try to learn what Tesla and others were trying to say. Lets experience the wonder of life again and learn the true nature of nature.


Peace to you all
jbignes5

I see value in just creating an electrical tank circuit that would be able to store electrical energy.   This would allow a huge and diverse source of "conventional" alternative energy sources to be Universally distributed.   If his magnifying transmitter was successfully deployed then we would be able to jump over the proposed hydrogen fuel distribution scheme and just put up magnifying transmitters everywhere.   When your source supply is not needed at your site it pops up in an oscillator whose vibrations are being damped at a load center.  The need to package and transport fuels completely unnecessary.  The need to string wires with huge self-inductance losses all over the place done with.  The need for unsightly microwave towers beaming highwattage emwaves into communities done.   (Tesla devised methods to hetrodyne information carrying frequencies on the power carrying waves)  This is literally decentralization of power generation.   Not a good thing in the eyes of various emperor wannabees.

Quote from: sparks on July 08, 2013, 10:34:26 AM

  I see value in just creating an electrical tank circuit that would be able to store electrical energy.   This would allow a huge and diverse source of "conventional" alternative energy sources to be Universally distributed.   If his magnifying transmitter was successfully deployed then we would be able to jump over the proposed hydrogen fuel distribution scheme and just put up magnifying transmitters everywhere.   When your source supply is not needed at your site it pops up in an oscillator whose vibrations are being damped at a load center.  The need to package and transport fuels completely unnecessary.  The need to string wires with huge self-inductance losses all over the place done with.  The need for unsightly microwave towers beaming highwattage emwaves into communities done.   (Tesla devised methods to hetrodyne information carrying frequencies on the power carrying waves)  This is literally decentralization of power generation.   Not a good thing in the eyes of various emperor wannabees.

The problem with that solution is that without induction that is separate from the capacitance we have zero oscillations. The only point in including the capacitance is that it changes the kickback effect or in Tesla's words False currents. Self inductance or resistance to change is neutralized in the bifilar design so that any change is met with near zero resistance, besides the resistance of the wire. This lets impulses travel at faster speed then what they were put in.**explained below** If we follow Tesla on this route we realize that when something has an increase in speed it's energy value is also increased.


Now if we look at the geometry and winding direction of the bifilar pancake:
http://www.teslauniverse.com/nikola-tesla-patents-512,340-coil-for-electro-magnets , we see that current flows from outside to inside of the coil, then goes from outside to inside yet again. All while reducing the self inductance by keeping theses conductors apart from themselves. This is what raises the capacitance and hence lowers the self inductance. This process also has a lot to do with how the energy pulls on itself in the capacitance. Since there are two conductors and each conductor must be either a negative or positive there is a definite direction to the current. Also the winding direction of the current or turns determines  the polarity of the magnetic field. With two wires flowing in opposite directions of the same current we can see it can get very complicated. The magnetic field would compound and become stronger, on not two wires but a very complex 3 component system. Let me explain.


Besides the outside wires all wires in this coil are surrounded by two conductors. Check the patent and you can see this in the lower bifilar pancake coil. Since charges take time to flow this means charges would effect other charges flowing in the coil at any given point except for the outside winds. **** Not to mention that each conductor flowing in each direction would have an opposite polarity as given by your own physics (right hand rule)****. This is very complicated stuff and not any backyard technician would know much about that type of stuff unless he educated himself on a very great many things.


**** After further review I have to correct my mistake. Each coil flows in the same direction twords the middle. I am sorry about the mistake and fully take that statement back about opposite polarities. There is an attached picture #2 of the bifilar coil with color coding for the coils except I added something to think about. High voltage impulse emitter single turn coil around the bifilar with added ground nipple in the middle. The radial lines going into the center nipple(Blue & Black & Blue) are the e-field lines(blue) flowing twords ground.


Not only is this very complicated there is another aspect that I wish to touch on and that is the subject of an e-field on the velocity of such charges flowing in the coil. Say a biasing high voltage e-field is applied to the environment around the coil. What effect do you think this would have on charges flowing on the inside of the coil? Given your own physics lets say a certain wattage is flowing in the bifilar coil. If this e-field gets induced into the coil would this change the wattage flowing out of the coil? What happens when you raise one of the components of the supply? The wattage would increase right? More current would raise the wattage and more voltage would do the same right? The e-field could be given a direction by including a way to concentrate that by including a grounding wire in the center of the coil right? This would concentrate the e-field and give it a way to stream across the bifilar coil raising the inducing voltage as it streams to the ground wire. The e-field can be created by a single loop around the bifilar pancake and the ground wire is the exit through the center of the bifilar. Now this ground wire shouldn't be very large at all, just a nipple could be used in the center because the bifilar pancake is 2d based. Where there to be multiple coils all in parallel you could use a much longer wire as a single source of the ground wire and reduce the wire resistance to near zero values. What kind of impulses could be used in a system like that? What kind of current do you think would be flowing in a system like that?


Tesla even devised a better capacitor that was oil filled:


http://www.teslauniverse.com/nikola-tesla-patents-567,818-electrical-condenser


These caps were designed for use extreme high voltages as with his impulse devices. In these devices it was merely to create an exciter like e-field around, lets say his bifilar coil for instance. if the e-field had a way to flow out of the coils center, what kind of effect would it have on the bifilar coil(s) as they were working? My guess and the guess of many High energy physicists say it would accelerate charges. ie The example of how a particle accelerator works. This is not fantasy as some say because if it was then particle accelerators would not work as seen today. This idea was started via Tesla through his death beam work. You might want to check out the open ended vacuum tube he designed just for particle accelerator weapon systems. This system was also used in generating huge currents when the particles slammed into copper plates that were grounded. The measuring device was in between the plate and ground. The ground in this case was the proverbial sink Tesla was talking about.

Below is the picture of the tube design:

I will leave you with that to chew on for a bit.

Jbignes5:

I find your comments depressing and disheartening.  You have people that are beginners interested in learning and experimenting with electronics and they read stuff like you posted and it completely corrupts their understanding.

I can't tell you how many times I have looked at YouTube clips where people are fascinated with their experiments and they are convinced that they are doing something out of the ordinary but it's not true.  They are observing their circuit doing exactly what it is supposed to do and convincing themselves that they are seeing something that "conventional science" does not understand.  Part of that problem stems from reading stuff from people like you.

You just posted a big treatise on what you call a "cap coil" or what we decided to call a "series bifilar coil" on another thread.  So you have a lot to say implying that you think you know what you are talking about.

I will repeat the challenge that I made to you before:  If you think you understand how a coil works I will give you a ridiculously simple circuit that includes a coil.  I will ask you to explain what the circuit does.

If you can't answer the simple question about the operation of the circuit that includes a coil then I would suggest to you that you do some soul-searching because your two posts above are outrageous.

MileHigh

  Tesla said electrically that the Earth acted like a small highly polished copper ball.   Also in explaining his magnifying transmitter system he used the analogy of the Earth as a waterballoon with the mt a piston pump and a far receiver a piston pump also.  When the mt piston was forced down the internal pressure of the balloon would be increased.  This pressure could only escape through the far piston being forced up.   When the mt was relaxed the far piston would then return the mt piston to it's raised position.  I would think that if you pump electrons into the ground they would physically displace electrons surrounding the cathodic element.   So put the two together.   If he was going to hit the ground with lots and lots of negative charge carriers this would increase the pressure inside the copper ball.   He determined the capacitance of the entire Earth to be very small.  Microfarads or something.  This means it wouldn't take much current flow to fill her up.   Any further electrons accelerated into the cathode would result in a linear increase in the amount of charge residing in the copper ball.   This pressure would then be vented into receiver tanks whose oscillations when damped through a load resistance would furnish power.   He also noted that this damping of the load tanks would result in a decreased amplitude of the reflected wave proportional to the amount of wave damping.   Like a room full of tuning forks.
You stirke one and soon all the others are ringing.   Including one you touch.  The one you touch rings down because of the resitance to it's natural harmonic movement afforded by your hand.  The mt ringsdown faster because it isn't getting any oscillations back and needs to make another strike.  In Tesla's case lightning strike.