Quote from: Farmhand on July 20, 2013, 01:12:00 PM


Mags, it won't work unless the coil is excited at the correct frequency to cancel the reactance or whatever they call it, some motors change frequency a lot. 

Cheers

Well, lets say we do apply the correct freq.  How does that start?  If our correct freq begins at zero amplitude, will that first climb in amplitude to peak 'happen' the way you are describing? 

So now lets look at the same if we apply DC initially. Will we not have the same climb to peak when the switch is closed?     Im just talking about 1/4 cycle from 0 to peak. Whatever that freq is, applying dc, the the current should peak in the time of 1/4 of the freq cycle, and remain at peak, with dc applied.  So what Im talking about is not having a soft initial push of the rotor because when we turned on the switch, we dont have to wait for the inductor to gradually allow the current to initially flow. It does it much faster this way.

So the rotor feels more of a hit than a push, like my bullet analogy in my previous post.

Im talking about when the switch is turned on, there isnt much time spent building the field, of which may never peak once the switching becomes faster.

Impulse. Isnt this what Tesla talked about at one point or another?

Mags

Yeah I know what you mean and I think it could work for a pulse motor at the correct frequency with DC pulses. But for the first initial rise it would be normal like DC, the cancellation of the effects of the self inductance (ridding of the false currents) happens because of the "reflection timing". In my pulse motor I can use it at low frequency and it is in pulse mode so that there is a coil discharge to collect, but when the right frequency is reached the spike goes away and a sine wave happens. My motor has bifilar coils but the windings are in parallel, or else resonance is passed because of too much self inductance, then the current is restricted and the input and output are much less. The very best way would be to put a pulse motor on some kind of dyno so the torque curve can be seen while the current and voltage are scoped. I'm not prepared to go too much further until I can produce some curves from the shaft over rpm ranges fairly easily. Soon I might change to all North out magnets and get a sine wave happening with that. Just to take the south magnets out of the situation.

As with the voltage, with magnet wire I don't think much difference would be seen because of the small spacing between turns.

I think one of the points to the patent is that a lower frequency resonance can be produced with the coil for electro-magnets for the same amount of wire, as long as the voltage is applicable to the situation.

A normal coil with 50 mm spacing will be much the same as a coil for electro-magnets with 50 mm spacing if only 1 volt was used, but if 40 000 volts was used the coil for electro-magnets capacitance would increase by a lot more because the voltage would be enough create a better capacitor between turns.

I do intend to test the voltage thing when I decide how I want to it, (formulate the experiment) and will post my results no matter what if I'm wrong then I'm wrong.

I'll probably use single layer spirals spaced a fair bit and use a big difference in voltage. But to make the experiment valid I'll need to think about it. Later.

..

Jbignes5:

They pulled the docs, so they were free for just a few hours.  I only have a feeling for Eric Dollard and it's not good.  I read most of the "war" thread on EF.  I saw how Eric repeatedly bashed Farmhand.  I know Farmhand asks basic straightforward questions, and knowing the "culture" it does not surprise me that he was bashed by Dollard one bit.  People like Dollard what to talk the talk, and they get defensive when people ask basic questions.  I actually skimmed through the Eric Dollard "Pines" book yesterday when it was free, for all I know the file is in the cache on my other computer.  I was too tired and didn't read much.  However, if your long posting is kind of an overview of the Dollard writings then I am going to pass.  I know that you believe that your "alternative universe of understanding" with its roots in what Eric Dollard has to say is valid.  To make any of this real somebody has to demonstrate something.

That ties right back to the question I asked you about how coils discharge their energy.  You didn't answer and I will take that as meaning that you didn't know.  I would not be surprised if the whole group of Dollard enthusiasts that have been involved in this stuff also don't know, and nobody ever even asked the question.  It's an important question and it just serves to illustrate my point.  Some people that have worked with coils on the bench for years would also not understand how a coil discharges.  They are just playing the "talk the talk" game on the bench.

It's a cynical attitude based on my experiences.  I can take the liberty of heaping more cynicism on this whole Dollard war.  This is just a war about two factions that are both blind "talk the talk" believers and they also want to "monetize" Eric Dollard.  They want to use Eric Dollard as a vehicle for self-promotion or to sell books or to get hits on a website or to raise money for a lab or to pocket some proceeds for themselves somewhere down the line.  However, there is a double-cross going on, some people want to use Dollard as a pawn for their own selfish needs, but at the same time Eric Dollard is using them as pawns.  Dollard is more than happy to see people promoting him as a guru and working to get him a lab and all that stuff.  I mention differential equations and the response is mostly mute silence.  Eric mentions differential equations and drops Tesla's name and throws in some folksy "talk the talk" lines and people swoon and run to get him three-phase power for his free lab.  The Feds intimidated Bedini several times and forced him to "detune" his spinny pulse motors, just like all of Eric's previous labs met dastardly fates.  It's all part of the free energy cottage industry charisma and mystique game, and its all lies - in the final analysis Eric is sitting back and watching his pawns do their thing for him, like a queen bee.  The problem is that he's almost certainly got nothing, and he will never produce anything.  Between his bushy beard and weathered desert skin and tapping into the Tesla mystique, Eric has competing sets of pawns doing his bidding for him.  It's not pretty.  It's a drone war and the drones are people.

What's the big clue for me that Eric is a fraud?  The fact that he would freak out whenever Farmhand asked a "politically incorrect" technical question, but in fact I have to assume that they were reasonable and sensible questions.

What's a possible outcome to this Dollard cat fight and drama?  He will get his lab.  They will take $15K out of the $40K and buy a bunch of wire to make the "Cosmic Induction Generator."  A couple of kilometers of wire will be strung through the desert and then volunteers will monitor the system.  Every now and then they will see some voltage and current in the wires.  The problem:  That's exactly what's supposed to happen and electrical utilities have to deal with that issue on a regular basis.  You may as well take a small coil of wire and move a magnet past the loop.  Take the ends of the wire and stick them in your mouth.  Notice as you move the magnet that you can feel the electrical tingle in your mouth.  There's your home-brew Cosmic Induction Generator and monitoring station for fifteen cents, not $15K.  Yes, I am cynical.  Let's assume that Eric will get his lab.  Assume that two years after he starts working in the lab he will have produced nothing of practical use - zip, nada.  The only question will be how many Dollard pawns will still be around doing his bidding and living the life of an "energetic science practitioner."

So TechZombie and Aaron and are 1) trying to monetize Eric, 2) deluded into believing that Eric has something, and 3) pawns of Eric.

All my opinion of course.

MileHigh

Jbignes5:

Going back to your long posting:

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Tesla believed that the future was his because he found out the real reason energy got conveyed to extreme distances with very little loss. And that this energy can be transformed and used like any other normal system does today. We did not investigate this area because we were afraid of the implications of those investigations. Is this a valid reason for not doing the experiments or even trying to use those concepts? Should we be afraid of the ones who extort our energy from us and give nothing back but the pollution they have made in this process.

In the ideal world they postulate that a stream of income is the only important thing. That this stream must be only in one direction. Theirs.

I propose that you, on your own schedule, do some Tesla series "bifilar" coil, a.k.a. "cap/coil" experiments and make some YouTube clips.  Please show your schematics.  Then everybody can discuss them.

MileHigh

Quote from: MileHigh on July 20, 2013, 07:44:36 PM
Jbignes5:

They pulled the docs, so they were free for just a few hours.  I only have a feeling for Eric Dollard and it's not good.  I read most of the "war" thread on EF.  I saw how Eric repeatedly bashed Farmhand.  I know Farmhand asks basic straightforward questions, and knowing the "culture" it does not surprise me that he was bashed by Dollard one bit.  People like Dollard what to talk the talk, and they get defensive when people ask basic questions.  I actually skimmed through the Eric Dollard "Pines" book yesterday when it was free, for all I know the file is in the cache on my other computer.  I was too tired and didn't read much.  However, if your long posting is kind of an overview of the Dollard writings then I am going to pass.  I know that you believe that your "alternative universe of understanding" with its roots in what Eric Dollard has to say is valid.  To make any of this real somebody has to demonstrate something.

That ties right back to the question I asked you about how coils discharge their energy.  You didn't answer and I will take that as meaning that you didn't know.  I would not be surprised if the whole group of Dollard enthusiasts that have been involved in this stuff also don't know, and nobody ever even asked the question.  It's an important question and it just serves to illustrate my point.  Some people that have worked with coils on the bench for years would also not understand how a coil discharges.  They are just playing the "talk the talk" game on the bench.

It's a cynical attitude based on my experiences.  I can take the liberty of heaping more cynicism on this whole Dollard war.  This is just a war about two factions that are both blind "talk the talk" believers and they also want to "monetize" Eric Dollard.  They want to use Eric Dollard as a vehicle for self-promotion or to sell books or to get hits on a website or to raise money for a lab or to pocket some proceeds for themselves somewhere down the line.  However, there is a double-cross going on, some people want to use Dollard as a pawn for their own selfish needs, but at the same time Eric Dollard is using them as pawns.  Dollard is more than happy to see people promoting him as a guru and working to get him a lab and all that stuff.  I mention differential equations and the response is mostly mute silence.  Eric mentions differential equations and drops Tesla's name and throws in some folksy "talk the talk" lines and people swoon and run to get him three-phase power for his free lab.  The Feds intimidated Bedini several times and forced him to "detune" his spinny pulse motors, just like all of Eric's previous labs met dastardly fates.  It's all part of the free energy cottage industry charisma and mystique game, and its all lies - in the final analysis Eric is sitting back and watching his pawns do their thing for him, like a queen bee.  The problem is that he's almost certainly got nothing, and he will never produce anything.  Between his bushy beard and weathered desert skin and tapping into the Tesla mystique, Eric has competing sets of pawns doing his bidding for him.  It's not pretty.  It's a drone war and the drones are people.

What's the big clue for me that Eric is a fraud?  The fact that he would freak out whenever Farmhand asked a "politically incorrect" technical question, but in fact I have to assume that they were reasonable and sensible questions.

What's a possible outcome to this Dollard cat fight and drama?  He will get his lab.  They will take $15K out of the $40K and buy a bunch of wire to make the "Cosmic Induction Generator."  A couple of kilometers of wire will be strung through the desert and then volunteers will monitor the system.  Every now and then they will see some voltage and current in the wires.  The problem:  That's exactly what's supposed to happen and electrical utilities have to deal with that issue on a regular basis.  You may as well take a small coil of wire and move a magnet past the loop.  Take the ends of the wire and stick them in your mouth.  Notice as you move the magnet that you can feel the electrical tingle in your mouth.  There's your home-brew Cosmic Induction Generator and monitoring station for fifteen cents, not $15K.  Yes, I am cynical.  Let's assume that Eric will get his lab.  Assume that two years after he starts working in the lab he will have produced nothing of practical use - zip, nada.  The only question will be how many Dollard pawns will still be around doing his bidding and living the life of an "energetic science practitioner."

So TechZombie and Aaron and are 1) trying to monetize Eric, 2) deluded into believing that Eric has something, and 3) pawns of Eric.

All my opinion of course.

MileHigh

It all goes back to the old saying that some people see the glass half empty and some see it half full but what they don't understand is the glass is both. We are forgetting the electric and only concentrating on the magnetic. This is the exact reason they will never find overunity. Overunity has and uses both. Since the magnetic field is never present without the electric and vicea versa.


This is not an new view. There are a great many views that share this concept. The ying and yang being the most esoteric popular. Plus and negative being more familiar to you or how about north and south even.. But there is little investigation of the electric and magnetic fulcrum as I like to call it. Take the ying and yang symbol and tie the magnetic to the black and electric to the white. Now place a single line across the center dot of the circle. Anywhere you stop the line is a balance and percentage of the two colors. This is the way to check the relation between the magnetic and electric fields. This fulcrum can be used in the toroid build. This locks the magnetic in the core of the toroid and also anchors the electric field to the magnetic in the same process. With the magnetic field being the inertia of the system and the electric field spinning around locked to the magnetic field. The voltage of the electric field is the strength factor of the electric field. Plus adding in the focusing of the lines and constricting them into the center of the toroid. When these events happen the strengthened electric lines can move through copper coils better and generate with increased current. Especially if the copper is very thick.


The toroid is the telling concept of this system. It locks away the magnetic field and lets the truly inductive event of the electric field to rotate around the rotor. Tesla found a way to tap this strengthened lines of the electric field. He has several patents that were designed to prove this concept for the ones who saw the real simple process very easily.

Here is an interesting patent by Tesla:

http://www.teslauniverse.com/nikola-tesla-patents-382,282-electric-converting-distributing

The funny thing is your own theories predict that the magnetic field is indeed held inside of the iron that is not saturated. So what is left to generate the secondary current?

But like I said some people see the glass half full and others see it half empty. I see it for the reality is has. It is both in a self balanced system.

As for doing the experiments. I am going to do it. But please do not knock the method because your method is based off of theory as well. And if we were or are ignoring the other half of this magnetic field then that theory is only half right. The transients that Tesla and other experimented with were of the other half you refuse to see or shunt to ground.

The only reason energy goes anywhere is because there is a medium that has zero losses. Well near zero losses. Light still looses intensity over light years of distance. This isn't due to the speed of light it is due to the .0000000000000000000000000000001 to 1 loss over that distance that the medium has. Well that number is a guess-timation based off of our current understanding of light propagation. Remember light is only a magnetic phenomena by your theory. With ours it is e-field based that causes magnetic waves like a boat cutting through water on a calm lake. The source light from the pulses traveling through the medium is radiative from the potential of the light charge source.


Now lets look at what a medium of silicon oil with drops of the very same oil are vibrated together.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fnUBaBdl0Aw

And this one with two drops:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xm_6Gi4Jqbg

And bigger amounts of "particles or charges":

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZyxiIdU-PYw


Now apply this to charges and you can see how this works. Charges are merely the Aether in division and in motion. It is no more particle then this video shows in concept. And the standing wave around the aether in motion is the wake of that charge. Although I have resevations about the memory thing they were talking about. If we look at the container the vibrating oil was in we can see the interaction of the standing wave to the constraints of the container. A fractal pattern emerges that will not change until the container shape is changed by either size or geometry. Any change in any one size or geometric patter including depth of the medium will have an effect of those travel patterns. The most interesting puzzle though is what happens when multiple droplets are used. Matter like stickiness happens and rotation also evolves over time. The standing waves are very telling of the process we want to copy here.

Also think about this for a second. If the medium acts like the above mentioned example but on a 3 D level then whats the density of the medium at it's most smallest scales. Even 1 cubic inch would hold enough Aether to make calculations of it's density nearly impossible even with the super computers of this day. Since fluids like water show the ultimate solvent effect then what would the Aethers ability do in that area? It would literally be inside of everything. Now think about that non-compressible fluid with fluidic laws of displacement and pressure. Now add a vibrating to the Aether medium like the silicon oil example.

As for your issues with Eric thats something you should take up with Eric. Here is what I do know. Eric had all of his work taken or destroyed from his possession. He lost countless labs and he bought a lot of his own stuff or even scrounged it up from the RCA labs. So he has invested more then the likes of you in this field. He has been living out of his car, for god sakes! and for years before people even knew what happened to him. By the way his prior work was free of costs, right? I mean people actually care now and rightly so. Most of what Eric has shown is legitimate experiments and replication of the most basic and advanced Tesla machines and concepts. This led to others that he learned from including the greats like your main theorists Steinmetz,Maxwell, Newton and Heavyside. Although he has shown where we deviated. And he has also worked up a math system to explain the relationships of it all. It's based on versor math or whatever he calls it. This deals with space and counter space.

What was donated to him was not for a lab although it turns out this is what he wants to do with the money it should make no difference as long as he can live off of the donation. Thats what it was given for. It was a community of his supporters that donated the cash, so whats it to you what gets done with it? Also the donations did not come without rewards as well.

Well to tell you the truth Aaron has always been that way. He takes what is in the public domain and claims ownership because itr was in his book. Well now you see where his ideas came from. Eric has more then enough proof and might have a claim of copywrite himself against Aaron. This could bite him in the butt. Only time will tell. This is exactly why I left EF. EF is nothing but an advertising platform designed by the master of advertising Aaron. Check his career out and you will quickly find out he is a trained sales man from college. That was his forte and major. EF is jammed packed with adverts from his products and e-books. None of which are his original ideas. He is just not that bright. I proved that in his 1 joule of energy thread. When faced with the facts he erases posts and bans the truth sayers. He tried and succeeded with blocking the plasma spark guys from patenting the idea and marketing them saying he authored the schematic, when he just changed adding one cap to the circuit. That doesn't even make it for an improvement patent which has to have 15-20% difference I believe in order to be issued. So Aaron is one of those vampire types. He hangs around and changes a few things then claims it as his own. But try to ask him why he thinks it works and you get garbage as an answer because of a lack of understanding about real energy and fields.

Quite impressive is that you have the very same challenges that you issue as he did. When in doubt redirect and throw out something that takes the attention away. When challenged you ignore half of the context and get only laser like focus on the iffy stuff in your opinion.

The new scientist of this age are starting to figure out major connections between the magnetic Plasma and the electric origin of the magnetic.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HOIlIMdJV5k

This evidence is only seen from the magnetic view in my opinion and is not taking into account the e-field as well. Again they fail to see their own theory but at least they are closer then our current established science group sees about this process. They just went off the path but it is the evidence they are using to base that off of. It is very hard to get a voltage field sensing device to view the e-field like they can with the magnetic. It is only a matter of time before we discover this tool and walla we will see for ourselves the connectivity this system has. It's roots are based in the e-field and the rest is springing forth from that field.