Mags is right.

An electro-magnet is not defined only as something that is used to pick stuff up. (like with a magnet on a crane). An generator can have electro-magnets and they can be excited at a frequency, it's not restricted to Continuous Direct Current. Nor is the patent about spiral coils only, all coils are included.

The patent to me looks to be about using frequency. There are several references to it. But I don't see any reference to the field strength when excited by Continuous DC.

The patent is about negating the self inductance of the coil by exciting it at or around it's self resonant frequency, and that by winding it in the way described the self resonant frequency is lower and so easier to achieve.

In the very second post of this thread I showed the Coil For Electro-Magnets has a much lower self resonant frequency. As the patent says it would have a lower self resonant frequency for the same length, of the same wire, on the same core, I believe that is the object of the patent. If self resonance was wanted in a field magnet then we would simply use a capacitor nowadays. But it could maybe be done without the capacitor by using a Coil For Electro-Magnets, if the field was to be excited at a constant frequency it could be viable.

Everything outside of the scope of the patent is irrelevant to this topic as far as I see it. But please continue off topic what do I care.

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Here's a thought. In a motor or generator with the field magnet coils self inductance negated by either a conventional modern external capacitor or by using a Coil For Electro-Magnets then I would imagine there would be an improvement to the Power Factor. Would there not ? Which would equate to an improvement in efficiency I guess.

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Regular Field Magnet coil tuned with external capacitor = Coil For Electro-Magnets field magnet coil wound to order for the intended frequency (no capacitor).
More real power less reactive power.  The way to better efficiency.

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I've got a transformer with eight primaries, four sets wound as double windings that can be configured as series connected bifilar coils, one each quarter. When one coil from two opposite quarters are connected in series (they are not bifilar like that) they measure 1.34 mH. I'll make some measurements and formulate an experiment in line with the patent to determine what external capacitor I would need to get self resonance at the same frequency as when the coils are connected as in the patent with no external capacitor.

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Was thinking of the Leedskalnin magnet holder.  If we have a U core with a bar core to close the end, a normal coil will produce a certain amount of field in the core to hold the bar core to the U core.  So if the bifi produces a higher initial field, the cores should lock in more than the normal coil. To find out, there would have to be a very specific and exact way of repeatedly being able to break the bar from the U, to measure the amount of output a pickup coil produces, or use weight to break the magnetic bond. Then there should be a difference in how much weight it takes to break the bond.

Mags

Quote from: Farmhand on January 12, 2014, 09:55:14 PM


Here's a thought. In a motor or generator with the field magnet coils self inductance negated by either a conventional modern external capacitor or by using a Coil For Electro-Magnets then I would imagine there would be an improvement to the Power Factor. Would there not ? Which would equate to an improvement in efficiency I guess.

If the car Tesla made had an AC induction motor, its possible that it was wound bifi, and its possible the coils in the motor were a large component of oscillation.

Mags

Quote from: Magluvin on January 12, 2014, 07:54:18 PM
Your right. Just applying dc, especially low voltage, if your not looking for it, you wont see it.

45pf, you better be looking for very high freq initial spike at the time of applying the dc, not just looking at the DC magnetic field after the spike.

@Mags:

What do you mean by "very high freq initial spike". Please look at the drawing, I think you meant a "pulse of short duration"? Do you mean that one should send a short pulse through the pan cake coil? If you mean that, what should be the "astonishing effect"?

Again, I am not criticising, just trying to understand and later on trying to reproduce the alleged effect.

Greetings, Conrad

P.S.: A measurement can not be cheap, it can only be correct or incorrect. Why the insults? I am not attacking, I am measuring and then I am being attacked.

Quote from: Farmhand on January 12, 2014, 09:55:14 PM
The patent to me looks to be about using frequency. There are several references to it. But I don't see any reference to the field strength when excited by Continuous DC.

The patent is about negating the self inductance of the coil by exciting it at or around it's self resonant frequency, and that by winding it in the way described the self resonant frequency is lower and so easier to achieve.

@Farmhand:

I showed that my bifilar pan cake coil has a lower self resonance frequency than my monofilar pan cake coil (bifilar ~ 4 MHz, monofilar ~ 9 MHz).

From this follows that the bifilar pan cake coil has a higher self capacitance than the monofilar pan cake coil (bifilar ~45 pF, monofilar ~ 9 pF).

The inductance of both my pan cake coils is ~34 µH.


What do you mean by "negating the self inductance of the coil by exciting it at or around it's self resonant frequency"? What is "self inductance"?

I excited both coils around their self resonance frequency and they behave like all coils. (The reactance increases which can be seen as a rise of the Voltage over the coil.)

What should happen in a bifilar pan cake coil when it is excited at its resonance frequency?

What should happen in a monofilar pan cake coil when it is excited at its resonance frequency?


Again, I am not criticising, just trying to understand so that I can measure an alleged effect.

Greetings, Conrad

P.S.: I am not off topic, I just measure systematically to separate the known from the unknown.