So a fire fueled by a few hundred gallons of kerosene, not only brought down the first steel high rise with fire in history, but also melted hundreds of pounds of steel. The energy needed is just not there. That in its self would be overunity. I don't care how you burn the fuel it will nevr reach heats higher than 1300 degrees. At least your willing to acknowledge the molten steel, the people whos story you back up deny its existence. They do this because they KNOW jet fuel can't melt steel. John Gross, who headed the NIST report, said himself: "I think its pretty difficult to get those kinds of temperatures from a fire".

His own words: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZgYNGGgBP0

So... Yeah... Kinda odd not a single new source reported this ignorance.

http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&um=1&tab=wn&ie=UTF-8&q=john+gross+nist
Scratch that... Found one, but its an Seatle Times editorial... Figures...


"Based on this comprehensive investigation, NIST concluded that the WTC towers collapsed because: (1) the impact of the planes severed and damaged support columns, dislodged fireproofing insulation coating the steel floor trusses and steel columns, and widely dispersed jet fuel over multiple floors; and (2) the subsequent unusually large jet-fuel ignited multi-floor fires (which reached temperatures as high as 1,000 degrees Celsius)"
~ http://wtc.nist.gov/pubs/factsheets/faqs_8_2006.htm

Where did the molten steel come from then?
Why would John Gross (Co-Project Leader) claim there was none?
Wouldn't he have seen more photos and real world data than us in 3 years?

You and I both know it doesn't add up.

Oh and molten steel and explosions were reported by FDNY long before the collapse.
So your last arguement wouldn't really apply now would it?

~Dingus Mungus

Quote from: Dingus Mungus on August 03, 2007, 09:17:25 AM
So a fire fueled by a few hundred gallons of kerosene, not only brought down the first steel high rise with fire in history, but also melted hundreds of pounds of steel. The energy needed is just not there. That in its self would be overunity. I don't care how you burn the fuel it will nevr reach heats higher than 1300 degrees. At least your willing to acknowledge the molten steel, the people whos story you back up deny its existence. They do this because they KNOW jet fuel can't melt steel. John Gross, who headed the NIST report, said himself: "I think its pretty difficult to get those kinds of temperatures from a fire".

His own words: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZgYNGGgBP0

So... Yeah... Kinda odd not a single new source reported this ignorance.

http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&um=1&tab=wn&ie=UTF-8&q=john+gross+nist
Scratch that... Found one, but its an Seatle Times editorial... Figures...


"Based on this comprehensive investigation, NIST concluded that the WTC towers collapsed because: (1) the impact of the planes severed and damaged support columns, dislodged fireproofing insulation coating the steel floor trusses and steel columns, and widely dispersed jet fuel over multiple floors; and (2) the subsequent unusually large jet-fuel ignited multi-floor fires (which reached temperatures as high as 1,000 degrees Celsius)"
~ http://wtc.nist.gov/pubs/factsheets/faqs_8_2006.htm

Where did the molten steel come from then?
Why would John Gross (Co-Project Leader) claim there was none?
Wouldn't he have seen more photos and real world data than us in 3 years?

You and I both know it doesn't add up.

Oh and molten steel and explosions were reported by FDNY long before the collapse.
So your last arguement wouldn't really apply now would it?

~Dingus Mungus

1300 deg? BS I can get higher teperatures just fueling a fire with wood. have did it many times right here in my driveway. You can keep denying that higher temperatures were involved, focusing only on the jet fuel but the buildings was filled with fuels in the form of objects adding fuel to the fire increasing the temp. I melt hundreds of pounds of aluminium with a full sized truck load of wood. It's not that difficult. were really talking about hundreds of thousands of tonnes of iron. no it's not overunity. Just energy bieng released by fire.

"So... Yeah... Kinda odd not a single new source reported this ignorance." the ignorance is in not seeking what was going on inside the buildings or the mechanics of what was going on in them prior to and during collapse. It takes a little mechanical genius and a lot of common sense which the average mind just isn't capable of understanding. Your looking for a single new source? I look this thread over and see that there doesn't seem to be any single source involved in it. there are hundreds of sources some conflict eachother. so in general the sources posted only support the arguement at the time. Example: your saying 1300deg but i know i seen 3 different accounts where firemen are stating that it was 2750-3500 deg 5 days after the collapse. Now what? So it is quite apparent that the multiple sources are unintentionally  misleading and conflicting when it is viewed in fragments siting mute points via uninformed or averaged minded wittness. that are unreliable at best. You stated something like you don't watch tv as it conditions people to believe certain things. well the sounds representative of an explosion is an edited or manipulated track in many cases. so who say's that any of these wittness's have actually heard a real explosion to make a realistic comparison?

Yeah i know it add's up. but apparently you don't. Your still trying to find the conspiracy in it, not focusing on the facts and potentials involved.  But don't include me in your ignorance of it. Things burn and explode in a fire get a grip on reality.   

@ring_theory

it seems you still have not watched the 9/11 Loose Change and the other movies listed
here in the thread in the earlier pages...

The fires were almost out before the WTC towers were destroyed via controlled demolition.

This was seen due to the black smoke which tells you the fires were not hot but lacking oxygen.

Also simular skycraper towers burned for more than 20 hours and did not collapse.

Steel is conducting the heat very well away from the fire source to other colder floors, so it does not reach melting points...

The WTC towers were brought down by computer controlled demolition charges,
which were planted some days/weeks before 9/11 into the towers.
In themovie it was said, that the brother of Bush, who was responsible for the WTC security,
removed the explosive bomb sniffing dogs and there were drills a few days before 9/11
were also the power went out and all security cams were disabled, so the
hidden demolition troups could go in and plant the explosive charges..

I really wonder how many people were involved in all of this and
if nobody from these guys wanted to come forward with the truth,
but I guess they are all too scared about the consequences then for them...

These must have been very professional guys, who planed to bring the towers
down and did all the demolition charges, etc , so to look as if the plane crashes had done it...

Also the smoke clouds emmiting from the WTC controlled demolition
proves it all in all already, that the towers just did not collape only,
but were brought down by these controlled demolition charges.

Also the thermate charges which were used in the underground base of the
WTCs burned for a few weeks after 9/11 as it ignited with very hot temperates
all the steel beams,so they were weakened and crashed.


I also wonder, if somebody has already researched, who exactly profited
from the drop (put) orders at the brokers, that the airline stocks would fall
1 and 2 days before 9/11 ?

I guess if this could be traced you will have the real guys who are responsible
for 9/11.

Just trace the money being made from it and you will have the bad guys...
It is always the same...

@ring_theory

You should be a lumberjack.

You'd get good pay to knock down all trees in just three shots.
Just for show, douse them in a little gasoline on them for a nice show.

All your trees fall at free fall speed.
Completely gone even below the middle of the cut point.

This is off topic:
Please don't vaccinate before you educate.
http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/august2007/030807mercury.htm
Please watch this above. Very scary.

Bush will veto mercury ban bill.
http://www.freemarketnews.com/WorldNews.asp?nid=46105

I hate to see children get hurt for their parents stupidity.
Vaccines with thimerserol are being pushed like never before.

Would be nice to see some professional CGI animateur,who knows Max3DS very well
and who can use the physical behaviour plugin module to
simulate a real collapse of a WTC model based on the pancake theory.

With this simulation model you would see, that the WTC would
not fall down like free fall speed and would not pulverize to dust,
but just would brake down completely differently and would probably need
at least over a minute to collapse and much bigger parts would be
there afterwards and no pulverized pyrolytic smoke clouds would be there, just only
some dust...
And you would find bigger parts in the rumble
than just a small  telephone touchpad.... as one
rescue police officer told in the Loose change video...

( All the bigger parts like doors and desks were exploded to dust
due to the computer controlled exlosive demolition charges.....
Compare the detonation waves making pyrolytic smoke clouds
versus collapse dust-> totally different behaviour...later you would
find doors and desks after a normal collapse, but not after a detonation wave
ripping all things apart to dust....it is the speed of combustion that detonations
pulverize all things to dust !!! Have you ever played with blackpowder fireworks and compared it to
real dangerous bombs with real detonation explosives on it ?
Just have a look at youtube.com and see the difference....)