Quote from: Erfinder on August 19, 2016, 11:21:33 AM

Like most Ron, you take what the man says at face value.  snip

Anyway....the attached was produced by one of many machines that I built investigating this subject.

Regards

Interesting post erfinder, I liked that.


Now I must confess that the six pole zero force design was a flop. 


This is the induced voltage, shown below which is a near perfect sine wave of nearly seven volts pk to pk


Ron

Quote from: i_ron on August 19, 2016, 05:54:38 PM

Now I must confess that the six pole zero force design was a flop. 

Ron

So I took all the magnets out but two at 180 and got this...(below)


I have built a new four magnet rotor and while it doesn't have the speed yet (only 1700 RPM) it does have less induced AC voltage, just around the two volt mark, 1 1/2 volts positive and 1/2 volt negative.

Incidentally, these scope shots are done with the motor being brought up to speed and then the power removed, the shots taken on coast down.

Ron

Quote from: i_ron on August 19, 2016, 11:05:52 AM


Brad,


I am not entirely in agreement with JB's statement in his videos that this, 'Zero Force' is a non-generator.


Naudin showed way back when that this configuration can induce a voltage.


Ron

It makes sense to me that the output would be as you show in the scope. The one hump camel.    Like if you have a magnet pass a coil with core in the more common manner, as the magnet approaches the core, the field is attracted to it more as it gets close. So the filed cuts the approaching side of the coil first, creating 1 phase of the typical ac sine output. And as the mag approaches tdc most all the field is in the core with less field cutting the windings and the voltage induced become 0v at tdc. Then as the field passes tdc, the field starts cutting the departure side of the core, giving us the other phase of the AC out.

So here we have the magnet only cutting the one side of the coil, thus basically only 1 phase out. But is there drag when the winding is loaded, as in lenz? Im just not so sure the config is lenzless as the coil is being induced by the moving mag, just as if the coil were in the typical on axis with the mag at tdc, the coil will repel an approaching mag, and pull on a departing mag. So each phase has an opposing affect on the moving mag as the coil gets induced.

What may be interesting is to wind just one 1/4(small section, not all the way around) of a toroid and spin a mag past the winding in the same way as you show, but the core a closed one. And if there is no induction to the toroid winding, then try a diametric in the hole of the toroid core. The one difference between having the magnet field cut the windings on the outside dia of the core vs inside is there would be no cog between the mag and the core, as if it is cutting the outside, there would definitely be cog because the mag is approaching and departing, where inside the hole of a round core, if the diametric mag is dead center, there would be no cog as the magnet is always the same distance from the core. So there would be possibly just pure lenz of just the induced winding? ??

Follow me here....   If the field of a winding on a toroid core is only in the core, as they claim, then there will be no lenz effect on the magnet as the coils induced field cannot escape the core. As far as they say......       Im going to try that this weekend. See what happens.  I have some 3/8 dia 1/2in long diametrics and plenty of cores. For me what may be interesting is if the coil doesnt get induced with an outer dia mag pass, but if it does with the mag in the hole, then possibly this helps prove that a pri windings field does pass through through the hole of the core to cut sec windings on the other side of the core. All of that gave me this idea and it may prove well with what you are doing here.

Mags

Like this below....

Mags

Quote from: Erfinder on August 20, 2016, 02:53:14 AM

It was a flop according to who?  A flop by what standard?  I too have a six pole machine, and like you indicate, mine also generates a sinewave which is cleaner in appearance than anything I have ever seen built by anyone!  That machine was the last one I built before I switched geometry.  That machine is dragless by the standard which is collectively agreed upon among those who only have eyes for the dragless condition.  If you got the machine wired up right, and the proper relation between the inducing and induced, yours should be dragless as well.  Be wise sir, investigate carefully before you conclude that there is nothing there, you are seconds from throwing away that which none have demonstrated here, save one, (me) I was ignored.


added.....


This design opens the door to what I have referred to in the past as the "rectangular transformation matrix".  That statement motivated the resident plagiarist to rush in and inform me that I was wrong.  That same individual wasn't able to generate the same conditions in his apparatus when asked, and still hasn't to this day.


Regards

Ah, I hadn't followed through with that. What I was implying was a failure by JB's concept of a "successful" replication with "no induced voltage". However you shine a light on a concept I had been disregarding. Thank you.


I had dabbled with the transverse coil induction method before now but had come up against Lenz being fully a participant. The rectangular transformation matrix could do with some further discussion


Ron