Brad there is seemingly something wrong with at least some of the readings in your scopeshots above. Have you changed the FG's output between shots? Look at the first and second shots. I hope we can agree that the CH2 VRMS reading across R1 only, should be the same in both these shots unless the FG's output has changed!

And looking at shots 2 and 3, one would expect the phase shift between CH1 and CH2 to be the same since, presumably, the inductance of the half-coils are the same or nearly the same in the TBF winding. Yet the phase shift shown on #2 is almost perfectly 90 degrees, but on #3 it is quite a bit less,  more like 45 degrees.

Can your scope provide a measurement value for the phase shift?

So I'm wondering "what gives" here with these scopeshots.

Quote from: Magluvin on April 30, 2017, 02:16:31 AM
Hey T and Brad





Mags

QuoteSo when measuring R1 we can calculate the input power as it is showing input currents whether they are the result of the interaction with the coils and the other resistor or not. Then we have R2 showing more dissipated power than what we see on the input. Whether we have looked at the coils independently or not, with just the 2 resistors we are seeing something more than in on R2.  Is that correct?

No
Measuring the voltage drop across a resistor with a known value,will give you the input current to the circuit as a whole,and the dissipated power of that resistor.

QuoteWondering something. I know its probably silly, but what if we took out the 100ohm R1 and put a 50ohm at each end instead.  I dont know why yet exactly but when we have the differences in coil voltages, rms, pp, there seems to be an off balance set in.  Like if we did the 50 on each end, would we have balance? Possibly the 1 winding compared to the other may have differences, but,  anyway.  Cool stuff.

I would suspect that each 50 ohm resistor would show the same value,and the center resistor would still show a higher value.

I believe that the extra energy is within the second coil(as per my diagram),and i believe i have found a way to tap into it 

I just carried out a test,and i can dissipate more power using the coil,than my function generator can deliver to the load it self.

Brad

Quote from: TinselKoala on April 30, 2017, 03:12:48 AM




Can your scope provide a measurement value for the phase shift?

So I'm wondering "what gives" here with these scopeshots.

QuoteBrad there is seemingly something wrong with at least some of the readings in your scopeshots above. Have you changed the FG's output between shots? Look at the first and second shots. I hope we can agree that the CH2 VRMS reading across R1 only, should be the same in both these shots unless the FG's output has changed!

The only thing i changed as i went through each step,was the voltage P/D value on the scope,so as to keep each waveform close to the top and bottom of the screen.
The FG was not touched for each test point.
I do not know why the current value changed,when i shifted CH1's probe to the end of L1

QuoteAnd looking at shots 2 and 3, one would expect the phase shift between CH1 and CH2 to be the same since, presumably, the inductance of the half-coils are the same or nearly the same in the TBF winding. Yet the phase shift shown on #2 is almost perfectly 90 degrees, but on #3 it is quite a bit less,  more like 45 degrees.

Once again,please note the value difference in the VPD,while the time scale remains the same.
Other than that,nothing else was changed during the test.
I am happy to shoot a video showing this,if you like.

But what is the math trace telling you?


Brad

Quote from: tinman on April 30, 2017, 03:16:10 AM
snip...
I just carried out a test,and i can dissipate more power using the coil,than my function generator can deliver to the load it self.
Brad

Worms! Gotta love em, hard to grasp, slippery as they can be.

Brad, I've done the same thing with my Tesla Bifilar solenoid coil, just because it's easier to work with than the pancake coil. Here are my three scopeshots that correspond to your three shots above. Using 10 ohm resistors just as you have done and connected to FG and scope exactly as you have done.

Note that the CH2 RMS measurement is practically the same for #1 and #2, as it should be since the probe and ground reference positions haven't changed. And also note that the phase shifts in #2 and #3 are also the same, as it should be since both half-coils have essentially the same inductance.

I don't much like using the fine-tuning controls on the V/div scales to make the traces the same height on the screen, but since you did that, so did I.

My scope, thankfully, will do Measurements on the Math trace so I've shown the Average value of the Math in all three cases. I'm too coffee-deficient at the moment to be able to tell if these are valid values or what they might mean, though.