It seems to be well established, that an asymmetric capacitor has a force towards the smaller plate of the cap. I will include the paper on the subject.

We then have a shaft, that has a pancake coil in one end and wires going to a propeller in the middle of the shaft (water wheel might be a better analogy. blades 90 degrees from shaft). This propeller is plastic and has the blades as asymmetric caps. We feed this pancake coil with another coil. The pancake coil on the shaft has wires going to the caps through avramenko plugs.

You can pump more voltage to the caps through the diode by pulsing the input coil. Now we have HV DC asymmetric caps loaded and there will be a force towards to smaller cap plate. Caps face 180 degrees to each other so they make the shaft turn in one direction only.

After the caps are full, you only need to supply the amount the caps leak. This you can get pretty small with insulated caps.

This is a real force, that the "lifters" are based on

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/264082208_High_efficiency_Lifter_based_on_the_Biefeld-Brown_effect

PS. The ionic wind principle is criticized and even in the attached paper the prove the effect is too small. Brown in his own experiments used a thick insulator, so where is the wind in that?

Hi Belfior

Great confusion. The "lifter" is a device that works with the ionic wind. If you use an insulated wire, the effect disappears completely (I have experimented it). This is proof that it is not a capacitor effect and that electrical contact must exist for air molecules to ionize. The Biefeld-Brown effect is not at work here.

Secondly, the Biefeld-Brown effect has never really been demonstrated, even in a vacuum. Some experiments have seen effects, but extremely weak. For me they are explicable by the "hidden" capacities between each plate and the environment, which allows Coulomb's forces to act quite conventionally.

Ionic wind? Quite interesting. One needs a capacitor though for the ionic wind to work in one direction, or whatever force there is, to be in one direction.

Quote from: F6FLT on January 12, 2019, 06:24:55 AM
Hi Belfior

Great confusion. The "lifter" is a device that works with the ionic wind. If you use an insulated wire, the effect disappears completely (I have experimented it). This is proof that it is not a capacitor effect and that electrical contact must exist for air molecules to ionize. The Biefeld-Brown effect is not at work here.

Secondly, the Biefeld-Brown effect has never really been demonstrated, even in a vacuum. Some experiments have seen effects, but extremely weak. For me they are explicable by the "hidden" capacities between each plate and the environment, which allows Coulomb's forces to act quite conventionally.

Well lets not use an insulated wire then!

I have no clue where you get your information. Has never been demonstrated? So I guess they just give out patents for random shit...

https://patents.google.com/patent/US2949550A/en

There are pretty extensive studies done and I posted a document of just one. Rand corp and Navy took Brown's research and he never had another public patent after that. Yeah. Pretty sure nothing came out of that research...

Yeah i would not reject the evidence, i don't think it's smart. Yet an immense arrogance makes to do that. It is not unusual, a very long time ago when i learned in a special school of physics and mathematics, there were many such there. Ignoring some evidence is a way to make quick easy decisions, which also makes one look smart, it looks that one knows when many are not able to understand.