Quote from: Localjoe on February 07, 2008, 10:46:31 PM
@ Jenna
yea kinda confusing.

Just the one i am describing the prior models i built had improper insulation and weren't wound with love.. nicely.

The readings i took were from just the wires on the primary coil no secondary was present while i was taking those readings. copper to + iron to - on the meter. those readings ranged between .7 -.9 v and between 16-20 ma.


ok  then i wound some wire real thin probably 24 plastic insulated from the top down i only got about half way or less because i ran out of wire.  next i take the leads from my meter and connect them to either end of the secondary doesent matter.  then i take in my hands the wires from the primary and make and break them myself.. i see a small  AC voltage and AC current on the meter..  this should help you understand my logic 

I don't know what happened to my reply so this may be a repeat or something.

I think I do understand some of your logic. I don't think it is logic that is such a question. It is the actual readings. I also get zero with the terminals shorted and a lot of the same results.
Here is where our results are differing:

I get a strong magnetic attraction at the terminals 10 and 6 made of iron whether with or without a secondary. You have not mentioned it or I missed seeing your mention of it.

I don't ever get .77v unless I am touching probes to a zinc bolt and copper terminal. (I made one with a zinc bolt so I could be making a similar experiment as you and Bill)

I am unable to see anything from the secondary. I actually think it is there, just the wire I used is so thin I can't get a reading from it without touching the probes with my hands. (But THAT shows my personal GSR which today is around 20 mv which is more than the secondary probably would be showing)

But and here is where our results really do agree, On the device that has it all: moisture, inner core and secondary  I get 60.9 mv between leads 5,6 and
If I check between a cu terminal (either one) and the zinc bolt, I get a cycling that goes from a high of 190mv to a low of 46mv and cycles in between up and down from a cycle at the high end to cycles at the low end.

This is also why I said lets build them. I think there is really nothing going on until you add the secondary.

And just because I think this is more magnetic than electric and therefore MY reasoning says it is a self kicking doesn't mean I am right or you are wrong.

Lets just keep on truckin

jeanna

@jenna

dont take this the wrong way ummmm if you have some cheap rags or cotton t shirts you could use.. how ever crude i think your results will go up dramatically.  Bill got the same readings i did .

What gauges are your wire as well i never asked you that..  My copper is bare about 10 or 12 gauge from a romex wire. my iron may be a little bit larger than that like 8 but i think its 10 or 12

your not going to see anything from the secondary unless the primary making and breaking happens at a fast speed.   

Wow!  I go away for a few hours and, a lot of posts.

@ All:

Bruce from the TPU topic pm'd me and said that, like Joe is saying, water is a good dielectric.  Distilled water is even better.  This makes sense to me.  Possibly my "salt" experiment has shown us something.  I artificially increased the conductivity of the electrolyte and, the whole works shorted.  This alone tells me that water, as comes out of my tap, is acting like a dielectric of sorts.  My first attempt at this cell I obtained .8 vdc and 15 mA.  This was just after wetting the cell a bit.  That also tells me something. (I am still trying to figure it out)   I know we are on to something here people.  I feel we are getting beyond the point where we can look to the "books" and hope to explain things that are happening.

Now, someone posted about not wanting to be in a tub with an electric fan, and I agree.  Why is this dangerous?  I don't know, but he is correct, it is.  But, this scenario might not be directly correlated to the results we are seeing here.  I was always taught that water was a GREAT conductor.  I have since learned otherwise.  I have to agree with Joe on this one.

@ Jeanna:

I am not sure why you are not seeing the same, or similar, results that Joe and I have once you "wet" your cell.  Does the zinc play a part in this?  Maybe, hell I don't know.  I just used what was available to me at the time.  My core is mostly iron though as proved by my magnet experiments at the store.  We are breaking through to another level here.  It is not, and will not be easy.  We don't all have to agree on everything all of the time.  Any information , either by experiment, or personal knowledge, that propels us forward is welcomed by me.

I have re-wrapped my second layer to eliminate my short.  I still have my first "salt" cell, which shows no short now that it is dry. (Thanks Hans)  I have no wire available for a secondary at this time but I will see what I can do.  I will post test results on the 2 layer cell in tap water, to compare.  I am very impressed with every one's efforts here.  With all of the talent, and out of the box thinking we have here on this topic, we can not fail.

Bill

@ Bill

Thanks for the vote of support and thanks to bruce as well.  I also concur that we are delving into areas of science that books only test can help us with so good luck folks.
                                                                                             Joe

welcome back Bill,

QuoteI am not sure why you are not seeing the same, or similar, results that Joe and I have once you "wet" your cell.  Does the zinc play a part in this?

Sure it does. We found that out outside. Whatever is on the surface of the bolt is going to give a galvanic response. I did make a zinc bolt version and it works well.

I am quite sure and maybe even wrote it down that before I wrapped the secondary on the zinc bolt plus inner core 4, it gave a voltage of .77. Another one here in the kitchen did by itself with a piece of copper in a glass jar.

Thing is, the thing does this interesting cycling when I touch probes to copper terminal 5 or 10 and the zinc bolt.

I am not worried about these readings.

QuoteWhat gauges are your wire as well i never asked you that..  My copper is bare about 10 or 12 gauge from a romex wire. my iron may be a little bit larger than that like 8 but i think its 10 or 12

Joe, Is your wire stranded?

both my wires are single strand gauge Cu18 and Fe19 The iron is dark annealed. It is pretty stiff and hard to bend but it was the only one I could find that was not galvanized. I could not find any other iron wire  that was fence or stove or otherwise outside wire that was not zinc coated and shiny silver colored.

The other day I bought some even smaller 24 gauge of each and some more 18 gauge of each and the iron of BOTH of these sets are galvanized. also 2 zinc coated bolts and 2 iron nails. I will make inner core 4's out of these.

Also Joe, I did make one with cotton. It is heavy and bulky and the wires don't get very close to each other. I think because of needing to induce a magnetic field it is of paramount importance. Getting them close is a priority for me.

I guess all of us are out of mag wire. I need to order some, so, I can only make the inner cores for a while. I have some but it is either too short or too skinny. I will use up what I have.

off topic
BTW I got a kodak disposable camera but there is a small choke but no toroid.
Bill, I can saw a ferrite bead shorter with a hack saw can't I.

jeanna