MrSpates:

I was curious about the same thing with carbon, as in my carbon rods.  I think an electromagnet requires iron but, I was thinking about our induction coils.  Would this also require iron?  Sorry to not be able to answer your question but I have similar ones.

Bill

Joe,
I have been trying to think of how to answer your request to tell you what I think.
What I don't get is how we can get into such trouble understanding what we are saying. After 'sleeping on it', I still only see one difference.
I think you make a separation that I do not make.

But first I want to be sure about the following:
Because the 5,6 junction is the place of interposition, I see that as the place to put a motor or the spark gap, relay  etc. I think that is where you are planning to interpose it.?? yes?

OK now for my answer.

As I posted last night to Mr Spates, electricity running down a wire creates a magnetic field. You can not stop it. Magnetism is intimately connected with electricity. What you do with it may make the difference in what you call it.

So, if you have a coil and run e- down it and use the magnetism to pick up paper clips or cars, you call it a magnet. Because it stops when you stop the e- you call it an electromagnet.

Now take that same coil and at one end of the wire place a nail a wee bit away so that when the e- goes down the wire it jumps across to that nail you get a spark and the coil is now called a choke, I think. I don't know if an induction coil is also called a choke.

Now, take the same coil and run e- down it but this time place it pretty near another coil but do not let them touch each other. The e- will produce magnetism in the coil as before. But NOW, the magnetism that the first coil produces, induces e- in the second coil. Now this first coil is called an induction coil.

One coil 3 uses 3 different names.
All these coils induce a magnetic field around them no matter what they are called. So, I consider all of them to be what they are according to their use.

I think this is the basis of the trouble in our communications.

I think of them all as a variant of the same thing according to their use and you have separate names for them and the names define their use.

This is probably because I was never forced to learn the names in a classroom.

Does this sound right to you?

I would like to not have to go through a repeat of the other night. I think we have gone over this a couple or 3 times before and that is enough. So, does this sound right to you?

thank you,

jeanna

To answer my own question, I took a graphite rod this morning and wound it with about 8 layers of 30 awg. and applied 14v alternating current. The graphite rod did not magnetize at all, all it did was get real hot. Seems to me that the only kinds of materials that will magnetize are the ones that attract to a magnet like iron and steel(ferrous). Materials like Copper, Aluminum, Graphite, Zinc,etc while great electrical conductors will not magnetize as they are nonferrous, oh well, ya learn something every day.

G'Day all,

@MrSpates:  Did the coil get hot before the graphite rod got hot?  And what was the frequency of your AC voltage?

@jeanna:  I think you summed it pretty well, the type of use of a coil definately has a bearing on what it is ultimately called.


Cheers

Ian

@jeanna

"But first I want to be sure about the following:
Because the 5,6 junction is the place of interposition, I see that as the place to put a motor or the spark gap, relay  etc. I think that is where you are planning to interpose it.?? yes?

YES exactly, i plan to run a relay from the existing power in the two wires while there moist, passive is the key,  as well if i used the rotary gap that would have to be a seperate power source so it was not in the primary circuit just a disk wtih insulation strips for on off conductive path.

Biggest thing to grasp here is were not running e- electrons/power into our setups. we want to use the exisiting power in the primary from the voltaic action of the water. So in essence when the wires are on the off cycle of the timing there is no connection and they  just sit when on the on cycle the disk provides a conductive path from wire 5 to  wire 6 and then breaks that connection.  So i guess you could say its a temporary electromagnet because of the tempory interposition imposed by the device conencted to terminals 5 and 6.  The SECONDARY is the INDUCTION coil in its classic form.

When i hear those words i think this

Electromagnet- coil with iron core

Choke- Coils ususally wound on a ferrite toroid to filter rf can be built other ways tho.

Induction Coil- Air core'd coil possibly bifilar depending on self inductance attributes desired

If you have time build yourself a mini coil gun and some of these properties will be easier to see right on the table.  Take apart the cheapest kodac fun flash you can find solder a switch on the - leg of the cap after the switch is your coil that is the barrel for the gun and the other end of that wire goes to the + lead on the cap.  Charge the camera like normal when the flash light is on for ready you can fire the coil gun with the switch make sure its at least rated for 120v.  This is where i had my first experience building coils and testing inductance properties and such as well it cost me 5 dollars for the camera guts of 5 boards, and 3 bucks for the radioshack mag wire. the 3 pack use the red sutff.  I wound my coil on a pen tube from abic and locked that pen tube in the chuck of my skrewdriver for easy winding.                                                                                                                                      Joe