Quote from: jacksatan on March 13, 2008, 09:39:56 PM

Quote from: OilBarren on March 13, 2008, 09:12:16 PM
THAT BEING SAID OUR EFFICIENCY FOR TOROID # 2 IS UP 20% FROM 31% TO 51% AND WE HAVE NOT TESTED TOROID # 3 YET WHICH SHOULD GIVE US ABOUT 71% IF ALL GOES WELL.

Another thing - as I pointed out in a previous post, though the efficiency of toroid #2 has increased form 31% to 51%, this seems to have little to do with a change in toroids, but rather the adition of coils. Under the same testing conditions (ie. test 1 and test 2) toroid #1 and toroid #2 seem to have almost identicle efficiencies... So once again, before moving onto another toroid, I would definitely retest toroid #1 under the same conditions as toroid #2 was tested under in tests 3, 4, and 5 - it may turn out that the number of windings in the toroids is a red herring...

BTW - rereading what I just wrote I recognize a lot of numbers and reference tests - please drop me a line if my comment makes absolutely no sense at all... Thanks

SORRY FOR THE MIS-UNDERSTANDING.
AT THIS TIME - WE ARE IMPROVING OUR TRANSFORMER EFFICIENCY PERFORMANCE BY INCREASING THE NUMBER OF TURNS IN OUR PRIMARY - THAT IS ALL.

Thane

Quote from: OilBarren on March 13, 2008, 09:12:16 PM

JUSTSHE - PLEASE POST IT AGAIN TO REMIND US?

AS PROMISED - LUC AND I ARE IMPROVING OUR PRIMARY POWER TRANSFER BY ADDING ADDITIONAL TURNS - THERE IS AN IDEAL NUMBER WE JUST HAVE NOT FOUND IT YET.

THAT BEING SAID OUR EFFICIENCY FOR TOROID # 2 IS UP 20% FROM 31% TO 51% AND WE HAVE NOT TESTED TOROID # 3 YET WHICH SHOULD GIVE US ABOUT 71% IF ALL GOES WELL.

OUR PEAK PRIMARY POWER TRANSFER RANGE HAS NOT BEEN DETERMINED SO WE WILL BE ADDING ADDITIONAL TURNS TO OUR PRIMARY TOMORROW AND WILL ALSO BE WINDING AN ALTOGETHER NEW PRIMARY WITH NEW CORE MATERIAL.

ALSO OU (OTTAWA UNIVERSITY'S) MECHANICAL ENGINEERING DEPARTMENT HAS GENEROUSLY OFFERED US A RAIL DUNE BUGGY FRAME TO INSTALL AN ELECTRIC GENERATOR/MOTOR SYSTEM IN. LUC WILL POST PHOTOS ON FRIDAY.

WE WILL BE RUNNING OUR SPECIALLY DESIGNED "DUNE BUGGY" ON A SPECIAL FORMULA OF FART INFUSED METHANE GAS, SNAKE OIL AND HOT AIR FUEL BLEND WHICH PRODUCES LOTS OF SPARKS. 

CHEERS
Thane

p.s.

"If an idiot were to tell you the same story every day for a year,
you would end by believing it."
                                                                   - Horace Mann

It's not clear to me whether you're making fun of my gender and/or insinuating I think you're peddling snake oil and/or implying that somebody named Horace Mann might think I'm an idiot.  Either way, by now it should be clear that I respect your goals  and very much hope you succeed. Any conclusion otherwise falls under the category of "your problem".

The results Luc posted recently from the work on March 11th all reference "Toroid 3".  Am I reading that wrong? I assumed that meant the 5500 turn one...

How much can you rely on the known properties and performance of typical transformers to predict how various changes will affect your design? For example, can you make a reasonable prediction on how your new core will affect things? Was the computer modelling you did in the past predictive?

Hope you weren't kidding about the dune buggy frame.  That sounds like a great next step. What kind of data would a context like that allow you to gather that wouldn't be practical in your demo unit?  Is the basic concept going to need much modification, or is that hard to determine at this point? What's more fun..the theorizing or the engineering?

Is that enough questions?

Quote from: gotoluc on March 12, 2008, 03:57:57 PM

RECALL THAT WE STARTED AT 4 WATTS IN SO IN ESSENCE WE OBTAIN 2.39 WATTS OUT WITH ONLY 0.77 WATTS OF ADDITIONAL POWER IN. 

IN ALMOST EVERY CASE WE ARE SEEING AN  INCREASING POWER ACROSS  THE LOAD WHILE SIMULTANEOUSLY HAVING OUR INPUT POWER DECREASE ? IT SHOULD NOT DECREASE (THIS IS THE POINT) ? IT SHOULD INCREASE IN TANDEM WITH THE INCREASE IN SECONDARY POWER ACROSS THE LOAD...

Thane

The most likely explanation for this is that it's an impedance matching effect. Reconfiguring the coils is creating a better impedance match between the load and the source (variac) - it's absolutely normal for the input power to go down as the output power goes up if what you're doing is reconfiguring the coils to give a better impedance match. What would be surprising would be if that happened WITHOUT reconfiguring the coils.

It's not clear to me whether you're making fun of my gender and/or insinuating I think you're peddling snake oil and/or implying that somebody named Horace Mann might think I'm an idiot.  Either way, by now it should be clear that I respect your goals  and very much hope you succeed. Any conclusion otherwise falls under the category of "your problem".

CLEARLY - THE HORACE MANN QUOTE WAS MEANT FOR POLARBREEZE'S NONSENSE.- NOT THAT HE'S AN IDIOT BUT HIS POSITION IS BORDERING ON THE IDIOTIC WHEN YOU CONSIDER WE HAVE OUR WORK (IMPROVEMENTS) DOULBE CHECKED EVERY DAY - BY DR. HABASH BECAUSE WE WANT TO BE SURE BEFORE POSTING THEM.

DON'T WORRY IF I KNEW YOUR GENDER THEN I WOULD BE SURE TO MAKE FUN OF IT.
BTW, WHAT GENDER ARE YOU?

The results Luc posted recently from the work on March 11th all reference "Toroid 3".  Am I reading that wrong? I assumed that meant the 5500 turn one...

YES THIS IS CORRECT.

How much can you rely on the known properties and performance of typical transformers to predict how various changes will affect your design? For example, can you make a reasonable prediction on how your new core will affect things?

THE PRIMARY HAS A PEAK MAGNETIC FLUX TRANSFER WINDOW WHICH IS DICTATED (RIGHT NOW) BY THE NUMBER OF TURNS OF WIRE ON IT. FOR EXAMPLE LUC INCREASED OUR PRIMARY YESTERDAY BY 15 TURNS AND OUR EFFICIENCY INCREASED BY 20%.

WE ARE HOPING FOR MORE OF THE SAME TODAY.

TYPICAL TRANSFORMER PERFORMANCE IS COMPLETELY OUT THE WINDOW AND IF WE SLIP INTO THINKING ALONG THOSE LINES WE MAKE MISTAKES - WHICH HAPPENS OFTEN.

THEREFORE WE TRY TO THINK AS LITTLE AS POSSIBLE (AND ASSUME AND PREDICT NOTHING).

MY PREDICTION (HOPE DESIRE):
AN OPTIMIZED PRIMARY WILL GIVE US OVER 100% EFFICIENCY ANYTHING LESS AND IT'S ALL GOING IN THE GARBAGE.

Was the computer modelling you did in the past predictive?

NO TIME FOR THIS YET.
WE WILL DO IT AFTER WE GET IT ALL WORKING.

Hope you weren't kidding about the dune buggy frame.  That sounds like a great next step. What kind of data would a context like that allow you to gather that wouldn't be practical in your demo unit?  Is the basic concept going to need much modification, or is that hard to determine at this point? What's more fun..the theorizing or the engineering?

WE ARE INTENDING TO MAKE THE $ 10 M - 100 MPG X PRIZE COMPETITION MOOT.
IDENTICAL CONCEPT - JUST SCALED UP FROM A 1/3 HP SINGLE PHASE, CAPACITOR START INDUCTION MOTOR TO A 10 HP SINGLE PHASE, CAPACITOR START INDUCTION MOTOR. NO DESIGN CHANGES UNTIL AFTER WE DEMO IT ALL WORKING ON THE ROAD. 

ENGINEERING, BUILDING AND LEARNING BY MAKING MISTAKES IS THE MOST FUN -
THEORIZING JUST CAUSES PROBLEMS BECAUSE EGOS ARE INVOLVED AS YOU CAN SEE EVERYDAY IN THIS FORUM?

Is that enough questions?

NOT FOR ME - ENOUGH ANSWERS FOR YOU?

"History will be kind to me because I intend to write it."
Winston Churchill

Quote from: OilBarren on March 14, 2008, 07:11:18 AM
It's not clear to me whether you're making fun of my gender and/or insinuating I think you're peddling snake oil and/or implying that somebody named Horace Mann might think I'm an idiot.  Either way, by now it should be clear that I respect your goals  and very much hope you succeed. Any conclusion otherwise falls under the category of "your problem".

CLEARLY - THE HORACE MANN QUOTE WAS MEANT FOR POLARBREEZE'S NONSENSE.- NOT THAT HE'S AN IDIOT BUT HIS POSITION IS BORDERING ON THE IDIOTIC WHEN YOU CONSIDER WE HAVE OUR WORK (IMPROVEMENTS) DOULBE CHECKED EVERY DAY - BY DR. HABASH BECAUSE WE WANT TO BE SURE BEFORE POSTING THEM.

DON'T WORRY IF I KNEW YOUR GENDER THEN I WOULD BE SURE TO MAKE FUN OF IT.
BTW, WHAT GENDER ARE YOU?

The results Luc posted recently from the work on March 11th all reference "Toroid 3".  Am I reading that wrong? I assumed that meant the 5500 turn one...

YES THIS IS CORRECT.

How much can you rely on the known properties and performance of typical transformers to predict how various changes will affect your design? For example, can you make a reasonable prediction on how your new core will affect things?

THE PRIMARY HAS A PEAK MAGNETIC FLUX TRANSFER WINDOW WHICH IS DICTATED (RIGHT NOW) BY THE NUMBER OF TURNS OF WIRE ON IT. FOR EXAMPLE LUC INCREASED OUR PRIMARY YESTERDAY BY 15 TURNS AND OUR EFFICIENCY INCREASED BY 20%.

WE ARE HOPING FOR MORE OF THE SAME TODAY.

TYPICAL TRANSFORMER PERFORMANCE IS COMPLETELY OUT THE WINDOW AND IF WE SLIP INTO THINKING ALONG THOSE LINES WE MAKE MISTAKES - WHICH HAPPENS OFTEN.

THEREFORE WE TRY TO THINK AS LITTLE AS POSSIBLE (AND ASSUME AND PREDICT NOTHING).

MY PREDICTION (HOPE DESIRE):
AN OPTIMIZED PRIMARY WILL GIVE US OVER 100% EFFICIENCY ANYTHING LESS AND IT'S ALL GOING IN THE GARBAGE.

Was the computer modelling you did in the past predictive?

NO TIME FOR THIS YET.
WE WILL DO IT AFTER WE GET IT ALL WORKING.

Hope you weren't kidding about the dune buggy frame.  That sounds like a great next step. What kind of data would a context like that allow you to gather that wouldn't be practical in your demo unit?  Is the basic concept going to need much modification, or is that hard to determine at this point? What's more fun..the theorizing or the engineering?

WE ARE INTENDING TO MAKE THE $ 10 M - 100 MPG X PRIZE COMPETITION MOOT.
IDENTICAL CONCEPT - JUST SCALED UP FROM A 1/3 HP SINGLE PHASE, CAPACITOR START INDUCTION MOTOR TO A 10 HP SINGLE PHASE, CAPACITOR START INDUCTION MOTOR. NO DESIGN CHANGES UNTIL AFTER WE DEMO IT ALL WORKING ON THE ROAD. 

ENGINEERING, BUILDING AND LEARNING BY MAKING MISTAKES IS THE MOST FUN -
THEORIZING JUST CAUSES PROBLEMS BECAUSE EGOS ARE INVOLVED AS YOU CAN SEE EVERYDAY IN THIS FORUM?

Is that enough questions?

NOT FOR ME - ENOUGH ANSWERS FOR YOU?

"History will be kind to me because I intend to write it."
Winston Churchill

The swing at the X prize is really a great idea to prove your concept Thane. Very practical swing at the naysayers.

If that works, I will have you convert my Prius to run on your "engine"?